Rebecca 0:00

so that's our new business venture Jamie and I are launching. We're announcing it today. for a small fee, we will come over and threaten to murder your pet unless you clean,

Jamie 0:08

or whoever, you know, your most

Rebecca 0:10

or whoever

Jamie 0:11

thing,

Rebecca 0:12

Yeah, your most cherished... Give me your toddler. We will threaten to kill your toddler until you clean up your fucking bathroom

0:21

I'm Jamie. And I'm Rebecca. Welcome to The Burnout Collective

Jamie 0:29

hey, everybody

Rebecca 0:30

Hello.

Jamie 0:32

Welcome back to, The Burnout Collective

Rebecca 0:34

Park. Oh, The Burnout Collective

Jamie 0:36

Always Menopause Park Insert, insert raptor screeches.

Rebecca 0:41

Yeah. No, that's good

Jamie 0:43

But don't worry, 'cause today, this week, we're changing topics to something we both know well

Rebecca 0:50

Yeah, it was really easy, "Oh yeah, we should definitely talk about that one."

Jamie 0:53

You said that to me and I was like, "Oh yeah, obvious- obviously." But, we wanna talk about e- executive dysfunction and time blindness And decision paralysis

Rebecca 1:07

Yeah. So I guess the biggest-- the best way to describe executive dysfunction is if you imagine like a record on a record player and it's your brain and your thoughts are just going around on the record player, except the needle keeps jumping. And instead of just playing the song straight through, it keeps getting interrupted and it's not consistent. Everything is just constantly bouncing around

Jamie 1:29

Yeah. It's not, it doesn't make things easy

Rebecca 1:32

No. No, it goes hand in hand with ADHD. People with autism also struggle with it. but it's, actually, we will go back to menopause part because it does get more difficult and symptoms do increase in perimenopause.

Jamie 1:48

'cause it's l- they're s- very similar in symptoms basically, right? even, memory loss. yeah. Ugh, that's rough. We're so lucky

Rebecca 1:58

It's so lucky. There are different ways it shows up, right? you've talked about time blindness before, and I'm like, "Ugh, that's not a fucking thing. she's just late." And then I looked it up and it was like, oh, time blindness applies to a lot of things where you just no longer have any concept of time. And so then I was thinking about it as like, oh, if I'm playing a game, it's 6:00 at night and suddenly it's like 11:00, right? Or if I'm really into something or really engrossed in something, I have no concept of how long things have, gone, right?

Jamie 2:30

Yeah.

Rebecca 2:30

that's I

Jamie 2:31

Like during, yeah, like during hyperfocus episodes especially.

Rebecca 2:35

Yep

Jamie 2:36

yeah, me it's just all the time. it's funny because, a lot of times people say things about ADHD, that I don't resonate with at all. That I'm like, "That's not me at all." And I think that's why, part of why it took me so long to get a diagnosis or to seek one is because I was like, "No, this is something else," or, "This is just me," or, "I'm just bad at life,"

Rebecca 2:57

Yeah

Jamie 2:58

Because I wasn't, I do it sometimes, and I feel like I do it more often now, but I always thought of ADHD when I was younger as, always losing things and forgetting things, because, that's what I was seeing a lot in, like peers that had ADHD. And I thought, "I'm not like that." "I know where everything is," and blah, blah, especially as an adult, And then I got to thinking that's because, and I was thinking this as an adult probably just five years ago, I've spent my whole life, finding ways around it and remedying that.

Rebecca 3:32

Yeah

Jamie 3:33

So I have, every place I've ever lived, my key... I have a key thing by my door, and my keys are always on the door. I come in, hang the keys on the door. Once in a while, I will be, like, walking in with my keys for some reason, and I literally panic because I'm like, "Don't put these down. Go put them by the door," because if you don't, you will never find them.

Rebecca 3:53

I know you live by yourself so you know where your shit is, but like when you were living with your parents or with roommates, would they ever move something and you would just go fucking ape shit because you were like, "I knew where it was and now you have moved it"? Yeah, same here. I'm like, "Don't touch my pile." Rob will go to put it... Like, "No, no, no. No. Don't touch it. I know where things are in there, and if it's moved, I'm fucked. I have no idea

Jamie 4:14

And it looks like... Yeah. 'cause my mo- my mom was always cleaning, and she does have OCD tendencies, and, that's an understatement. but, but she's not diagnosed, of course. and so she would constantly be moving, everyone's stuff and, putting things away and, sometimes putting it away in a different room or, this or that or, And it's,

Rebecca 4:34

ん。 Yes

Jamie 4:39

out for our, Super Nintendo or whatever, and she would try to, hide the cords and stuff like that, and we'd be like, "People have cords. We have appliances. We have electronic devices. I think that's okay. People expect that when they come over, Mom."

Rebecca 4:54

Ja

Jamie 4:55

but yeah, she would move things, and, we a- we would all just, go crazy

Rebecca 4:59

And what looks like a rat's nest to anyone else, to me I'm like, "No, I know exactly what is in there. I know where it was." And like I can picture it in my mind when I'm looking for something. So it's it's chaos to others, but, and I can't explain it, but it's like I know where in the chaos it is. It's not good, but it works for me

Jamie 5:18

Yeah. That's how I am too. many piles

Rebecca 5:22

And speaking of piles, that's the other thing that, especially with executive dysfunction is, struggling to, start or motivate yourself or, like, especially with organizing, if there's too much, i need someone to tell me how to start or where to put something, because otherwise I feel overwhelmed or I can't find the motivation to get started

Jamie 5:44

Or just have somebody there. Sometimes that's all I need. Sometimes it's just having another person there, whether they're helping or not. I think we've talked about, if we lived near each other, yeah, I would be so down for you to just come over and, watch TV or be on your phone on my couch while I do some organizing or cleaning up

Rebecca 6:06

It's really interesting because it's so easy for me to be like, "Yeah, no, just I'll tell you what to do." But when it comes to my own stuff, I'm like, I don't, and I don't, I can't explain it. I don't know why," but it's like I don't know where to start on this. But it's like I would have no problem going over, "Oh yeah, Jamie, we'll put this in here and I can help you organize." But when it comes to your own stuff, I don't know why it's so difficult

Jamie 6:26

It is. And I'm think- I'm thinking about all, 'cause like I went through phases too where I was very like hyper-focused on organizing things like in my apartment. And so my, my like my spice cupboard still looks immaculate, And like I... My linen closet still looks like pretty good and I know like I know what's in there, Like I know exactly what's in there, and that's what's in there every time. And I have a certain drawer in my office that I have a battery organizer in, and so like I know the batteries are there like every time. so I have those certain things that I can go to, but, Everything else is in piles lately

Rebecca 7:07

Yeah. Yeah. Impulse control is another, big struggle, with the executive dysfunction. So whether it's like drinking or drugs or overeating or saying something like it just falls out of your face, right?

Jamie 7:21

why I say I can't ever do cocaine, 'cause I would not wanna stop. I would be addicted to cocaine. I know it for a fact. I know

Rebecca 7:29

We're gonna open a restaurant. We're gonna organize a linen closet again

Jamie 7:34

And I'm finally gonna do all those embroidery projects And it's not even 10:00 AM

Rebecca 7:38

I know. I just, yeah, so I think especially with the eating thing because there's like an autism thing in there too, for me it's like, oh, it's a sensory thing. And so if I get like a sensory feedback or like a certain texture or something, then I just eat too much because it's so pleasing to get that, that mouthfeel or that sensory input. And I, by the time like my brain has kicked in, it's like, "Oh, I feel like I'm going to throw up." I don't stop until it's too late

Jamie 8:09

That happens to me, and I actually have never, I think thought about it or had it called out. So that was very interesting that you said that. I know this might seem silly, but, like, I just never thought about that, but that's very true for me as well

Rebecca 8:23

Actually, as I point to my Chipotle bag back there, I was having such a day yesterday that the crunch of the chip and just, that, ah, that very satisfying, bite, it just, it felt good. And I was just going through and then I'm... like I paused for a second and my brain was like, "Bitch, you gotta

Jamie 8:40

Like you're full, you don't want more chips. You really don't

Rebecca 8:44

Right. Actually, it's really funny 'cause I remember in the throes of dieting culture when I was younger, they'd be like, "Listen to your body and it'll tell you when you're full." And it's like, hmm, no. It ne- it, it doesn't 'cause it would go from, starving and then suddenly it was, like, going to vomit. there wasn't a gradually feeling full, and my brain never caught up or... But, and I didn't realize that was something that, that's part of this, right? It's just I honestly, I do have to say I'm amazed that we made it to 41 as, as

Jamie 9:15

We made

Rebecca 9:15

And are doing as well as we currently are

Jamie 9:18

Guys, we had a birthday a couple weeks ago. Happy birthday to us

Rebecca 9:22

Happy birthday to us. And there's so many like co-mor- again, this, it's hard because it's hard to separate out a lot of this and what goes with autism too, right? there's a lot of... So I don't know. I think I'm just kinda fucked. I- did I tell you I went to a psychiatrist? the psychiatrist who like specializes in women with autism, and I was like, "Look, I wanna make sure I'm not doing like a stolen autism Valor thing." I saw a psychiatrist before who gave me the diagnosis, but, "I didn't get the whole gamut like you did with my daughter." I was like, "And so I wonder if is it or is it just CPTSD?" I just, like I wanna know.

Jamie 9:58

Yeah

Rebecca 9:59

Spoiler alert I got the report back today and I was like, "Oh. Okay.

Jamie 10:05

Wait, are we gonna read the report? Do we have the report?

Rebecca 10:08

No, it just basically is like all caps, "Bitch, you autistic."

Jamie 10:12

Wait, so this was just recently that you're like, "I don't know if I'm autistic"? Just recently you were thinking this?

Rebecca 10:18

No, I was just thinking about it because going in therapy and like talking about is it a, maybe it's a trauma response. And I was like, "Oh,

Jamie 10:25

ん。

Rebecca 10:27

the way like I am, maybe it's a trauma response." And then I was like,

Jamie 10:30

response or is it autism or is it ADHD or is it perimenopause? Which is it? All of them

Rebecca 10:37

it's, it is for sure ADHD and autism, 'cause he was like, "These tests that you took," I was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding,

Jamie 10:45

He's "You aced these. You aced these

Rebecca 10:48

Pretty much. No, really though, he was like, "A+ autism." And I was like, "Oh,

Jamie 10:55

Rebecca just high-fived herself, you guys

Rebecca 10:57

Yeah, it was super cool. I don't know. I guess part of me was kinda hoping it wasn't, but it was. And one of the things that he said in there though was like, the reason why she hasn't been diagnosed until now likely is because of all the ways that she has set up her life, and how she moves through it with all these accommodations for herself. And you don't realize how much you're doing until someone makes you sit and think about it, and you're like,

Jamie 11:27

Oh man. Now I kinda wanna sit and think about it and I wanna list out the accommodations we've made for ourselves

Rebecca 11:33

and that's-- So I'm layering onto your point where you're like, "I didn't think it applied to me because it was like, I don't do that," but then you're like, "Oh, I actually do, but I've just accommodated myself in X, Y, and Z way. I just didn't realize that's what it was."

Jamie 11:49

Yeah. And sometimes those systems that we, like, build for ourselves, they break down too.

Rebecca 11:54

Oh yeah. oh, they

Jamie 11:55

yeah. And like, when they break down, then you're like, "I didn't used to have a problem with this. Like, why am I having a problem with this now?" Yep

Rebecca 12:03

Yes. one of the things that I also read, it was like part of executive dysfunction is, being able to explain what is in your brain, 'cause you get it, but when you have to, put it into words and make other people understand it, you feel totally overwhelmed. Oh, and actually when we talk m- during this podcast, that's what happens sometimes. It's "Do I sound fucking stupid?" Because it makes sense in my brain, but when you have to say it out loud to people, they look at you like What the fuck are you talking

Jamie 12:28

It's okay. It's just me looking at you.

Rebecca 12:31

I know, but it's like I'll ask, I'll be like, "Does that make sense? Because I think I supposed to make sense, but it made sense with me." So I notice I do that a lot because I struggle with... That's one of the things, that's one of the big things I struggle with is but if I write it down, like if I sit and write it down, no fucking problem. It's the verbal connect between like my

Jamie 12:49

Or just like perception of yourself

Rebecca 12:51

No, it's just actually being able to make my brain, yeah, verbalize. But writing, no problem. I think it's just like that on the spot verbal communication

Jamie 13:01

That's me, and I, I think a lot of that in, in, in meetings, I think we were just talking about this too, but just having to say I, it took me until I was almost 40 to say this in meetings, but to s- I always thought, "Oh, I'm just an introvert," and that's why, everyone in a meeting seems to, like, get everything right away and, be on board and then, talk about it. Meanwhile, like, I'm just, in my head and I'm trying to, like... I'm like, "Is there a doc I can look at too?" 'Cause, I'm a visual person, and so the comprehension was just, slower for me because I needed time away from this meeting, away from all these people and chaos to actually be like, r- read over what was said, look over the notes, and be like, "Oh, okay, this is what they wanna do. All right, now I have a plan." And I needed to, take special time to do that, and so it took me forever to be able to say... They're like, "Jamie, what do you think?" or, "Jamie, what can your team contribute?" "Oh, well, I'm, you know, I'll... I'm noodling on it and I'll, let you know." Noodling? I don't think I would normally say that, but,

Rebecca 14:03

so cognitive flexibility, that's one of the things that people with executive function

Jamie 14:08

Noodling, Rebecca, all right? Fuck your cognitive. Just kidding. Sorry. I'm like, "No, it's noodling."

Rebecca 14:13

being able, to like jump from one to another without being interrupted or like being very easily able to go from like thinking about this, thinking about that. It's like, no, I'm still, I'm still thinking about this one thing. Don't ask me to think... Like, you asked me to think about this one thing, I'm not going to start thinking about something else now.

Jamie 14:29

I think that's why I'm a really bad streamer, like on Twitch, because dude, man, like good streamers, like I don't know how they keep up with like chat and everything and and trying to play a game, and some of the games they play are like more intensive and I'm just like, "I couldn't do that." Sometimes I can't even do that when I'm alone. I'm gonna be like, "Ugh, that game is too much for me right now. I need to play this."

Rebecca 14:52

W- right. and it's e- not, actually not even streaming, but it's like when we were playing, when we do the group play with games, like everyone would be chit-chatting, chatter chatting, and I'm like very focused 'cause I'm trying to, like I, I'm very quiet because I'm trying to do... Either that or I'm high and I've just left the group entirely and not told anyone. it's either me focusing on playing the game or I've gotten too high and must now leave the game

Jamie 15:14

me tell you all the story of playing Lunch Lady with Rebecca for the first time, where she first met my gaming friends, I think. I think that was, like, your first-- their first introduction to you and you to them.

Rebecca 15:29

It was great.

Jamie 15:31

Rebecca got scared and just left, and then we were trying to leave, and you all have to go to the exit in that game to leave. And I was like, "Wait, Rebecca hasn't said anything in a while." I was like, "Rebecca?" And then we go, and then, Rob was like, "She's just standing over here by the vending machine," in the game. And I was like, "Maybe she got scared and just left. I don't know." And then I think I didn't even hear from you till the next day, and you were like, "Dude, I was so high, I, I couldn't, so I just left."

Rebecca 15:56

I just left

Jamie 15:58

And we still talk about it to this day

Rebecca 16:00

but that's a good point about streaming 'cause when you and I just, before we decided to do season two, it was like I really struggled with talking with you and then having to like respond to comments and then like people would have their thought, but if we were talking about something, having to like move back and forth, like that was really difficult.

Jamie 16:20

Yeah, I think it is hard. especially with a podcast, I think it is easier, because when you're on stream, that's pretty much, that's the dialogue. It's like you talking about the game or you talking to the chatters

Rebecca 16:33

yeah, I think playing a game and just chit-chatting would be a lot easier, but if you're trying to have a focused conversation with notes,

Jamie 16:38

two ADHD women trying to stay

Rebecca 16:42

Yeah. Yeah, or even if I'm in the middle of something and Rob if I'm i- focusing at work and Rob comes in and I'm like, and he'll ask me something, my response looks bitchy, but

Jamie 16:51

already did the like bitchy like, you cocked your head. You were like

Rebecca 16:55

It's like, God damn it, like, I'm in the middle of something. I can't talk about what groceries we're out of right now. Did you really just interrupt me? And it's, it comes off as bitchy, and I have to, take a second, he gets hurt. I'm like, "Shut the fuck up, not right now." Not, not meaning like that, but,

Jamie 17:10

Come on, Rob

Rebecca 17:11

but he does. But it took me a while to, A, figure out what's happening, and then B, verbalize that and "Oh, hey, sorry. I was just super focused." So I've had to really make an effort

Jamie 17:23

were you always like that though? Where you were able to vocalize, "Hey, no, I need a minute." 'Cause-

Rebecca 17:28

No, I just thought I was a, I was a giant fucking bitch.

Jamie 17:31

Oh, well, no.

Rebecca 17:32

did. I just thought I was

Jamie 17:33

What I mean is I think the same thing has happened to me. I'm the same way you are now. I'll be like, "Up, up, up." Like, I'll just be like, "Up, up, up, up." and, put my hand up to whoever. and then probably later, because I'm a little bit of a people pleaser still, I'll be like, "I'm so sorry, I really just was focusing on X," But I think before, like when I was younger, I would just... Even, like, in office and stuff, like back when I was in office working still, I would just be like, "Oh yeah, hey. Yeah." "I'm just so flexible and chill," and, and I would answer, I would respond to all of these distractions, and I think that was my mistake. So that's what I was asking you. I was like, were you always like that, or did you used to always respond to them and get so distracted, and now, as we've aged, and grown up and matured, we've finally figured out that we need to tell people to, hold on?

Rebecca 18:24

As a kid, like I remember when I was, quote, "playing," which is really just me telling everyone what we're going to be doing now, and if someone tried to deviate, I was like, "No, this is the, this is what we're doing. this is the plan.

Jamie 18:36

and you were like, "Am I really autistic? Am I really autistic?" Rebecca, what?

Rebecca 18:42

I know. I know.

Jamie 18:44

Oh my lord

Rebecca 18:45

And that's the thing, it's as he's walking me through my childhood, it's "Oh, yeah.

Jamie 18:51

he's "Are you autistic?" He, doesn't even do anything else. He just, takes out a piece of paper and just starts writing things down that he knows about you based on 30-minute conversation

Rebecca 19:02

Mm-hmm. To be totally fair, in the '80s and '90s, that wasn't what aut- right? that wasn't what autism looked like or ADHD. Because ADHD was that fucking weird kid who's flapping his hands and interrupts class all the time, that's what ADHD was, right? it was that fucking kid. It was Tyler doing that, and you're like, "I fucking can't stand that kid." Or like, he'd run around the field at recess. It was not, it was not like, especially for girls, right? You were just like the mean, bitchy girl

Jamie 19:33

then when you go to work, that's what you are too.

Rebecca 19:36

You are. You're a giant fucking bitch. You're a giant fucking bitch.

Jamie 19:41

Yep. Because you, because you have opinions and yeah. Oh, man

Rebecca 19:46

Yeah. There was no talk or thought around is this executive dysfunction? Is she just, is she quiet in meetings because she's digesting or is she quiet in meetings because she's judging? No. Is she quiet in meetings 'cause she doesn't know what we're talking about? No. We're just thinking and like we have to process.

Jamie 20:03

Did I talk on the show about my teacher in, sixth grade who, let us... Okay. She let us run around the school, which she should not have done at all. It was like...

Rebecca 20:13

I don't know.

Jamie 20:14

and we were, like, the rebel kids, too. So for her to be like, "Guys, you're driving me nuts. Go run around the school and come back, but you need to be back here before 4:00." And sometimes we'd be late because our other friend's mom would be, like, parked waiting for her early, clipping coupons, in her car. And we'd be like, "Oh, hey, Mrs. Cunningham." And then she would, she'd be like, "What are you girls doing?" And then, forget about it and be like, "Whatever." And then she'd talk to us, and then the bell would ring when we were out there, and we'd be like, "Oh, crap." "We gotta go back." And we were like, "Mrs. Cunningham was talking our ear off. We were helping her clip coupons."

Rebecca 20:46

Oh yeah, no, that wasn't ADHD at all. No. No. I literally, Jamie, I was in a meeting working from home. I- this is humiliating to admit. This is when we had first moved back here, and, Rob and I had been talking earlier about "Oh, we don't see, like, any birds or squirrels in the backyard, right? it's such a bummer because we have all these plants out there." So we're sitting in a meeting, and I look outside, and it's a squirrel, and I literally to Rob yelled, "Squirrel," except I wasn't on mute

Jamie 21:17

I love that. There's nothing to be ashamed of

Rebecca 21:19

No, I looked mentally disabled

Jamie 21:23

You're just

Rebecca 21:23

just in the middle of a meeting

Jamie 21:25

dog from the movie Up

Rebecca 21:26

At this fucking agency I was so excited to see a fucking squirrel. it cannot be a more perfect fucking example

Jamie 21:34

I can, I imagine you doing this and then Rob recognizing that you're on a meeting and did not mute yourself because of your actions afterwards, and Rob just cracking up

Rebecca 21:43

I was humiliated. Everyone just looked at me and I was like, "I'm gonna... I wish I was dead."

Jamie 21:48

See? You need to...

Rebecca 21:50

is dead

Jamie 21:51

See, if I was in that meeting, we would all just be like, "Ha ha."

Rebecca 21:53

Yeah, talk about fucking impulse control issues right there. Just

Jamie 21:57

That's awesome

Rebecca 21:57

yeah, no, it

Jamie 21:58

I think that's a good

Rebecca 21:59

I was trying to like think of a lie to like cover or why I would fucking scream that in a meeting

Jamie 22:04

the truth. Be like, "We didn't see any, wildlife around, and this is the first squirrel we saw, so I yelled, 'Squirrel!'"

Rebecca 22:13

I blamed it on the dog. I was like, "Oh yeah, sorry, the dog got a squirrel in the backyard."

Jamie 22:18

Okay, that's pretty

Rebecca 22:19

I was trying to get Rob's attention

Jamie 22:21

That's good.

Rebecca 22:22

Nope.

Jamie 22:22

You came up with that really

Rebecca 22:23

it wa- it, it's like my secret shame, which I have now just admitted to you and our 28 listeners.

Jamie 22:29

you're like, you're like turning a little bit red right now too.

Rebecca 22:32

I am. Like I'm genuinely embarrassed talking about this. Like it is my... You know like those things where you lie awake at night and suddenly your brain's like, "Hey. Hey, do you remember that one time? Do you remember that one time you did that thing? Guess what? We're gonna think about it right now." It's that. It's thinking that thing.

Jamie 22:50

mine is,

Rebecca 22:51

Yelling

Jamie 22:51

"Hey, do you remember that, you remember in kindergarten when you shoved that Amanda girl in that toy trunk and then sat on it? Do you think you were a bully and you've ruined her life?"

Rebecca 23:02

Oh, no. Oh,

Jamie 23:05

What's Amanda doing today? I hope she's alive

Rebecca 23:08

There are a lot of instances in my life though where, like, I have done something and it's like looking back I'm like, "Oh, fuck. That explains so much." But it had also is a cause for deep fucking shame and embarrassment because I had no understanding of how my brain was wired. I don't know, I don't know if you do a lot of sitting and thinking and self-flagellating, and if you don't, congratulations, I'm really

Jamie 23:32

No, all the time. I hate being left alone with my thoughts. I always have, and that ties to, I think, the sleep thing and insomnia for me has been all a tie to, like, ADHD or neuro di- divergence and, whatever else I may or may not have. but that's just been a huge thing because, yeah, I get time blindness at night, and also it's just, like I've been thinking about it a little more lately, and I think that maybe my brain is like trying to tell me Hey, you spend X amount of hours a day doing, work and taking care of yourself and the cats and everything. You should get the same amount of time to, have fun and unwind, right? So instead of just having, two or three hours at

Rebecca 24:22

a little treat. It's a little treat for a little guy

Jamie 24:26

I'm like, "No, I should get a bigger treat," is what I'm trying to say.

Rebecca 24:29

There's an actual thing where it's like, where you're like, "I'm not going to bed.", what is it called?

Jamie 24:35

rebe- like rebellious spending we heard. Is it like rebellious staying awake? God,

Rebecca 24:41

It's revenge bedtime procrastination. So it's basically where you're like, "Fuck you, I have earned, I have worked so hard, I'm not going to bed because i'm going to do something fun for myself."

Jamie 24:52

Yeah I think I've, explored that before and then forgotten about it

Rebecca 24:57

It does make ADHD symptoms worse. But it is part of Let me see.

Jamie 25:03

"Ha."

Rebecca 25:03

But then it starts a cycle of, sleep deprivation where then you're more tired, and that makes your ADHD symptoms worse. So it's

Jamie 25:09

It's me

Rebecca 25:11

about, good sleep hygiene, but when push comes to shove, "Yeah, I did work so hard today. I don't want to go right to bed.

Jamie 25:18

It's like I don't think that specifically, but I think that's what it is like I'm just...

Rebecca 25:23

Oh, for sure.

Jamie 25:24

Yeah

Rebecca 25:24

Or it's also like I have now lain prone on the couch for four hours, and now I finally have the energy to get up and start a load of laundry. Unfortunately, it is also 11:00 at night. So

Jamie 25:38

o'clock, Rebecca. You amateur. Please.

Rebecca 25:41

Do you know what I mean though? It's it's like I have all this energy to do th- and it's but it's only because I've just been recovering from the fucking day for four hours, so now I can. And now I feel like mad that I have to go to bed

Jamie 25:52

When you said that though, I thought you were gonna say, Cause now that I've lain prone on the couch for four hours, I have the energy," and I thought you were gonna say, "To lay prone on the couch for another four hours."

Rebecca 26:03

No, I do have the energy to go brush my teeth or take a shower though, 'cause I have to work it up to go do that. That is true. I have to, like, work up the energy to go shower, which is... That's an- actually, that's another thing with executive dysfunction is, finding, the motivation to do, everyday

Jamie 26:20

Boring tasks. Boring fucking tasks. Yeah

Rebecca 26:23

brushing your teeth, taking a shower. I, honestly, I have to listen to a podcast while I brush my teeth or

Jamie 26:29

be novel

Rebecca 26:30

I take a shower. It gives my brain something else to focus on instead of, the mundaneness of the same fucking thing over and over again, right? I'm stimulated, my brain is stimulated elsewhere, so I have the energy or the brain power to, do the stuff that I know I'm supposed to do. Laundry's a big one. Folding laundry and doing laundry is a really big one I struggle with. And if I'm watching TV or listening to something, then I can do it no problem. But if you sat me in a room with, like, fold laundry, you get no other stimulation, I would genuinely,

Jamie 27:00

Yeah, why would you wanna do

Rebecca 27:01

really struggle with that

Jamie 27:03

I think everyone would struggle with that

Rebecca 27:05

No, Jamie, people, Rob does his fucking laundry every week,

Jamie 27:09

No, I know, but

Rebecca 27:10

then he just folds it and puts it away,

Jamie 27:12

it in silence by himself in a

Rebecca 27:15

Yes! Yes

Jamie 27:17

is a fucking monster, Rebecca.

Rebecca 27:19

No, Rob's brain works normally

Jamie 27:22

No, he's a monster.

Rebecca 27:24

my mother just folds laundry, right?

Jamie 27:27

mom always was watching TV. She would always watch TV and fold laundry

Rebecca 27:31

He just sits there in silence folding laundry. And I'm like, "Do you wanna put on the game?" He's "No, I'm good." And

Jamie 27:36

you wanna put on the game? You're like even suggesting sports. Do you wanna put on the game? There's no game. He's like, "What game?"

Rebecca 27:44

and I know I'm supposed to offer to help him with laundry, but then we're in the same room in silence, and I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna help him fold the towels in fucking silence because then it's rude to listen to my podcast with my earbuds in while he's in the room, I

Jamie 27:58

when you say like he does his own laundry, does he do he's, he takes like his towel and like just washes his towel and stuff?

Rebecca 28:06

No, I'm talking about like his clothes. I'm talking about his clothes. But he does also wash the towel... Okay, so here's the other thing. He washes the towel... This is also embarrassing. He washes the towels and the sheets because I forget they exist. And there's a stereotype about men being pieces of shit because they're like, there's like a magical fairy and there's always clean laundry in the closet, and there's always clean towels, and I don't know how it happens. I am that person because I never consider that I have to wash the sheets and the towels, and I forget about it, and it's not me being dirty. It's not me being gross. I just forget, and I don't mean to. It's not on purpose. So he does it because people need clean sheets and towels

Jamie 28:49

That's great. Good.

Rebecca 28:50

And I forget about it.

Jamie 28:52

see what, R- Rebecca, let's see what else thing, what other things you can forget around the house. See if he picks up

Rebecca 28:58

He does the dishes too, Jamie. I'm not gonna lie, he does the dishes. To be fair, he does the dishes because the way I put things in the dishwasher are not, quote, "optimized." So I have to use maximum space with optimal arrangements, and I don't. I just throw it in

Jamie 29:14

surprised it's not the other way around.

Rebecca 29:16

No.

Jamie 29:17

surprised it's not the other way around

Rebecca 29:19

listen, my OCD is mostly contamination and germ-based. it does not, expand to the dishwasher, thank God. but I just forget. The dishes are just magically done

Jamie 29:30

Must be nice.

Rebecca 29:32

Mm-hmm.

Jamie 29:33

a pretty, pretty princess. She's such a princess

Rebecca 29:36

Jamie, I j- and I mean this wholeheartedly, I do not know how you live on your own with ADHD. I don't. Like

Jamie 29:41

Thank you. Thank you for saying that.

Rebecca 29:44

I don't, and I don't mean that condescendingly at all. Like I, I can't imagine because I, knowing all the

Jamie 29:51

It's all up to you, right? Like it's all up to you. It's all on

Rebecca 29:54

Yes. You have to do, you have to wash, you have to wash your own towels.

Jamie 29:58

I'm like, now I'm like when's the last time I... Actually,

Rebecca 30:02

I'm sorry

Jamie 30:03

no, I'm just kidding.

Rebecca 30:04

Ha- have you ever bought new socks because you di- or whatever, 'cause you were

Jamie 30:08

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely I'm like, "Ugh, yeah.

Rebecca 30:13

I have so many socks

Jamie 30:15

Same." And

Rebecca 30:16

Yeah. yeah. I have a hotel-sized laundry hamper. You know the kind that they, put the hotel linen in that the maids wheel down the hallway, the giant fuck-ass ones that are, like, industrial size I don't do laundry until that's overflowing

Jamie 30:32

that is. I actually just sent... I got some money for my birthday. You know what I did with it? I sent my laundry out

Rebecca 30:38

Good. That's amazing. as to how many pounds it is so heavy that you can put it in front of the door and the dogs can't move it. All three of them, they cannot move it

Jamie 30:46

that's a measurement that you know particularly.

Rebecca 30:50

To be fair, like, at work, you are a fucking rock star, and I know I am too, right? Because we're fucking on it, and I think a lot of times all our brain power and all our executive function goes to work, and then by the time we are done, that's it. We have nothing else

Jamie 31:05

And that's why I stay up till 3:00 in the morning because I'm like, "I gotta take care of my brain and let my brain relax."

Rebecca 31:12

Yeah. Yeah, all the brain power goes to, like, the thing that pays you money. Laundry, doing my own laundry does not pay me money

Jamie 31:18

exactly

Rebecca 31:19

う ん。

Jamie 31:20

My partner and I, 'cause we're in a long distance relationship, we used to joke that, we needed to make sure that we keep seeing each other, every three or four weeks, three to five weeks, because, then we would

Rebecca 31:32

you keep the house

Jamie 31:33

Yeah, so we were-- 'Cause both of us, yeah, severe executive dysfunction, and it was working, right? And I was like, yeah, like keeping, I was, like, keeping up with everything.

Rebecca 31:46

But that's motivation, right? you guys have found the motiva- like, something is motivating you

Jamie 31:51

You call it motivation.

Rebecca 31:53

You call it shame-based cleaning

Jamie 31:55

I call it, all right, now it's an emergency and this has to be done

Rebecca 32:01

fear-based cleaning. Fear-motivated cleaning That's a business

Jamie 32:06

Fear-motivated tasks. 'Cause that's it. tasks-

Rebecca 32:08

It's that TikTok I sent you where there's a guy who's just holding a gun to this woman's head and he's like, "Just do it. Just fucking clean the lawn."

Jamie 32:14

or the best was actu- Like, that is like, "Oh, okay, maybe. Maybe I'll do the laundry if you're holding a gun to my head." But the best one you sent me was holding a gun to, like, your pet, and was like, "I'm gonna kill your cat. I'm gonna kill your dog unless you clean up the living room right now."

Rebecca 32:30

Yes.

Jamie 32:31

that's even better. 'Cause myself, eh. But my cats,

Rebecca 32:35

so that's our new business venture Jamie and I are launching. We're announcing it today. for a small fee, we will come over and threaten to murder your pet unless you clean,

Jamie 32:43

or whoever, you know, your most

Rebecca 32:45

or whoever

Jamie 32:46

thing,

Rebecca 32:47

Yeah, your most cherished... Give me your toddler. We will threaten to kill your toddler until you clean up your fucking bathroom

Jamie 32:54

What,

Rebecca 32:58

not steal that

Jamie 32:59

what's the trademark?

Rebecca 33:00

I don't know, our business idea.

Jamie 33:01

have so many business

Rebecca 33:02

our new business that we're launching

Jamie 33:04

Yeah, I have to think of a really stupid name for it FBC, man. Fear-based cleaning. Get FBC with Jamie and Rebecca. Yeah, done. There's the jingle. Trademark

Rebecca 33:16

I do have to say that legal meth does help with some of this, but it helps in the fact that, like, I can get through an eight-hour workday,

Jamie 33:25

Yes. Yeah

Rebecca 33:28

And then I need like a booster

Jamie 33:30

So cocaine.

Rebecca 33:31

Ja, okay

Jamie 33:32

Cocaine. Is this episode just gonna be called

Rebecca 33:34

Give us our cocaine, please. we'd like some cocaine., I actually haven't talked about this, so I, with microdosing and then, I'm taking ketamine now, legally, there's, a ketamine program. I don't know if your brain is just constantly, like, noisy, but the one thing I have found with, especially with microdosing, is that it's actually quiet

Jamie 33:54

Mhm.

Rebecca 33:55

And I can just... With ADHD meds, it's like my brain is streamlined, but with microdosing, it's like my brain is quiet

Jamie 34:05

So same with me, except when I first started taking ADHD meds, that's how it was at first for me, like the first however many days on whatever med. And it freaked me out because I'm so used to just this constant blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like just inner dialogue and just, thoughts just racing all the time. And I think that was another thing why I was like, "Oh, I don't have ADHD. I'm not hyperactive." I'm not jumping around, running around. But you know what? I would get in trouble for talking in class all the time. I would get in trouble for just, doing little, jokes back and forth with my friends in class, and we'd talk about, like picking your cuticles. like that was like hyperactive for me. Now I forgot what we were talking about

Rebecca 34:53

Wow, we're doing great. It is now 6:30 our time. Our legal meth has 100% worn off.

Jamie 35:01

What were we talking about? And I was like, "Oh, that's like hyperactive."

Rebecca 35:04

your brain is quiet.

Jamie 35:05

Oh, our

Rebecca 35:06

that's, that's part of the executive's function is like it, that impulse control, right? Like getting distracted or interrupted or just

Jamie 35:12

Yeah

Rebecca 35:13

God damn it I don't even think we have an answer for this. I just think

Jamie 35:16

this isn't an answer. This is just

Rebecca 35:19

It should, I know, but I don't have like a, a bow to put on this. Executive dysfunction affects every facet of your life And it makes existing difficult

Jamie 35:30

And so if you're feeling, yeah, if you're feeling lazy

Rebecca 35:33

wanting to say, I keep wanting to say erectile dysfunction. I think it's just 'cause it's ED, and like every time I say executive dysfunction, I

Jamie 35:41

Oh, you

Rebecca 35:42

want to say ere- just... Yes, because I'm just thinking ED and so just FYI, every time I say it, like I have to stop myself from saying the wrong thing. I just... This whole show I've been really struggling

Jamie 35:53

It's, what's really funny is, you totally could have just been saying el- erectile dysfunction for executive dysfunction this whole time, and I probably would not have noticed. I would've been like, "Yeah,

Rebecca 36:01

Oh, shit. I hope I didn't. All right,

Jamie 36:04

I don't think you did, but I can totally see myself just like, yeah, going through the motions and

Rebecca 36:09

There's just gonna be in the podcast you hear da, da, da, executive dysfunction. It's a clip that I had to, make

Jamie 36:14

a voiceover. Your own voiceover

Rebecca 36:18

Yes Oh, fuck.

Jamie 36:20

No, I'm pretty sure you didn't. I was just saying that because I was like, I wouldn't put it past me to just be, like, smiling and nodding while you were saying erectile dysfunction, and me interpreting it as executive dysfunction.

Rebecca 36:32

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. We're doing so good

Jamie 36:35

Makes sense. But yeah, I think what I wanna say is just like you were saying like, "Ugh, Jamie's just late all the time because she's just such a mess," and like it's a thing. But it is, it's time blindness and I hate it, and I like try so hard to not be late. But every time I even try not to be late and I'm like focusing on it, I still somehow am. I don't know how. but also like feeling lazy and stuff because you don't know You're just not processing things the way you feel like you should be processing them because you're not on, on top of your shit like Like also, no one's on top of their fucking shit, I think, whether or not you have executive dysfunction.

Rebecca 37:18

That's also why I never understood people who are like, "Oh my God, I fucking love cleaning." And I'm like, "You are wrong." that's not correct. Whatever, no. I just, I have never understood people who fucking love cleaning because I'm like, I dread it and I have to build myself up enough to fucking do it. I don't understand how you can just do it. I just don't

Jamie 37:38

Someone actually said to me the other day about ADHD, They think their kid is ADHD and they were like, "He seems to do well, like, when there's like novel experiences." So like we go to Disneyland or we go to this special park or this special museum or we take a trip to the train park or something like that. But it's one, they can't make, as parents, they can't make everything novel, right? And two, novel experiences can be very expensive.

Rebecca 38:09

Yes. Yeah, I was gonna say, I can't fucking afford to go to Disney when I don't wanna fold my laundry

Jamie 38:15

Exactly um kids

Rebecca 38:16

so they feel excited enough to do it

Jamie 38:18

I should try that.

Rebecca 38:21

No, I ju I'm, God, I'm serious. I'm like, "Oh Because I, I think toddlers just have no executive dysfunction at all because they're fucking toddlers, and I'm wondering if that's why they like make songs so they can be excited about something and do it

Jamie 38:35

I was

Rebecca 38:36

All right. Maybe we need a cleanup song, I guess

Jamie 38:38

I was sitting on the couch with my sibling the other day, and they told my two-year-old niece to go get them a popsicle from the freezer. And as she was walking away to get the popsicle, I just turned to my sibling and I said, "See? This is why you have children, to send them to do things for you so you don't have to get up."

Rebecca 39:01

that's correct. Correct. Correct. Do you know how many times I've "Honey, can you do mommy a favor?" So many. I've done s- I've said so many times. It's

Jamie 39:10

I'm, like, I'm surprised she does it. I would be like, "Ugh"

Rebecca 39:14

the thing is, it's fun when they're little. They get to be like a fun little helper for mommy, but now she's 14 and she is no longer a fun little helper for mommy. And so I've worn that out. I can't do that

Jamie 39:23

be like, "Remember when you used to be mommy's fun little helper?" That'll help. She's "Die in a fire, mom."

Rebecca 39:31

that's 'cause it was a fucking novel experience though. They'd never been a fun little helper before, but now she's been a fun little helper and she's "I'm not fucking doing that anymore."

Jamie 39:37

loved cleaning when he was like two. He like wanted to have a little... They would just give him a little rag with a little squirt bottle of water and he would just

Rebecca 39:47

Yeah, it's new.

Jamie 39:48

Yeah.

Rebecca 39:50

He's never had to scrub shit out of a toilet before. He just, he has no idea how awful it really is He's never accidentally washed three Kleenex in his pocket and then spent like the next hour trying to pick it out of the dryer.

Jamie 40:00

That's the

Rebecca 40:01

He's-- It's fun and novel.

Jamie 40:03

The worst is when you live in an apartment and somebody does that

Rebecca 40:06

Ew

Jamie 40:06

leaves it

Rebecca 40:07

That's disgusting. that's a

Jamie 40:09

Also, no one in my apartment, cleans the lint trap of the dryers

Rebecca 40:14

So you have to touch... Oh, okay. Touching other people's lint, I'm sorry. That's, that's

Jamie 40:19

Lint isn't like germy. It's just lint

Rebecca 40:22

Lint contains pubic hair

Jamie 40:24

Oh, God, Rebecca. God, you ruin everything for me.

Rebecca 40:29

I

Jamie 40:29

are we friends?

Rebecca 40:31

I genuinely sometimes don't know. I genuinely wonder, all I f- if you're like, "I'm not listening

Jamie 40:36

dolphins,

Rebecca 40:37

how this is going to disease

Jamie 40:38

dryer lint

Rebecca 40:40

Jamie, I saw a TikTok the other day with a girl who had just found out about otters, and she was genuinely, genuinely bereft, and it was the funniest fucking thing I had ever seen in my life. It was great. She's "Do you know what they do?" She was so sad. It was so funny. It was great.

Jamie 40:56

Now it's time to end the show because I don't wanna ruin otters for everybody else. So don't... Nope.

Rebecca 41:02

I would love to ruin otters. Oh, fine. Fine. Fine

Jamie 41:07

You're on my bad side. You don't wanna get on the bad side of all six of our view- viewers, listeners. I was like readers, viewers, listeners

Rebecca 41:17

Oh, I'm readers. I like that. Our readers great. I'll send you a copy of that report so you can see just how fucked up

Jamie 41:24

I wanna report, like I want someone to... You know what? We'll just get tarot readings from Alyssa. That'll read us for filth. That'll be satisfying

Rebecca 41:32

I like that. I don't know, it, it's a little, it's a little not fun to sit down and, flay yourself open and be like, "Oh, there is so much that is wrong with me, and it's been that way for so many years, and it's a wonder anyone loves me." it's not super validating.

Jamie 41:48

But I also, I like know- knowing the, I like knowing the why of things though, So I would love to be like, "Oh, okay, that's why,"

Rebecca 41:56

it is, but like the fucked up thing is but there's nothing you can do about it. And in fact, you're already doing all you can do for it because you've been masking or accommodating yourself for this many...

Jamie 42:09

You're like, "I'm working so hard and this is what I get."

Rebecca 42:13

Yes. Yes. and there's no f- like, there's no pill I can take. There's no, there's nothing I can do to m- make it better. It just, I just, is

Jamie 42:24

Squirrel. Sorry, I had to do it

Rebecca 42:26

I know. Oh my

Jamie 42:27

Can we just end with that?

Rebecca 42:29

Squirrel. Okay, bye

Jamie 42:32

Okay, bye