Rebecca 0:00

"So the other option is an ablation, where they go in and they basically firebomb your uterine line." So those are, as a woman, my option is to either have my uterus punctured or

Jamie 0:12

in the hole!

Rebecca 0:14

take a fucking flamethrower to it, and I'm like, "Are you fucking kidding?" I- it's barbaric, it's fucking barbaric. It's

Jamie 0:22

You hear like a pipe

Rebecca 0:22

a woman.

Jamie 0:23

Beep,

Rebecca 0:24

So then she's like, "Well, we could put you back on the pill."

0:29

I'm Jamie. And I'm Rebecca. Welcome to The Burnout Collective.

Rebecca 0:37

hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Burnout Collective.

Jamie 0:42

Hey, guys. I'm also on my period, so

Rebecca 0:46

Oh, this is-- that's perfect. That's perfect.

Jamie 0:49

I got your segue right here, baby.

Rebecca 0:52

yeah, so today it is gonna be all about perimenopause and burnout, and how those two coincide, and, Jamie's uterus clearly still works, so it'll be me telling her a lot of stuff, and her learning what fresh horrors await for her in the next couple years.

Jamie 1:13

Perimenopause. I was just asking you, about, the symptoms you first noticed because, I'm noticing that I'm, like, having to turn on my AC more or, use it more and, at lower temperatures than I normally do. so I was like, "Oh, are these hot flashes? Is that what's happening?"

Rebecca 1:32

living in LA, but

Jamie 1:35

but it's not that hot here.

Rebecca 1:37

No, so two caveats to this. The first thing is that this all started, it's been about five years now, since the symptoms really first started, back when we were still living in Arizona. And they've recently found that women who are neurodivergent and autistic experience perimenopause symptoms, I think it's was it up to 10 years earlier than their neurotypical counterparts? and it's a lot harder for neurodivergent women,

Jamie 2:04

That's what I was gonna say. it comes on earlier and, stronger.

Rebecca 2:08

Yes. Yes. and because it starts so young, a lot of times it's difficult to get that taken seriously and not have it just chalked up to, Oh, you're just depressed," or, "That's just part of being a lady." and, perimenopause also makes neurodivergent symptoms worse.

Jamie 2:28

Okay.

Rebecca 2:29

brain fog and ADHD, that's a great matchup. sensory overload and autism, that's really enhanced. So yeah, it's life is a fucking nightmare, and it never gets better, ever.

Jamie 2:45

remem- I remember when you first started talking about, perimenopause and, the symptoms and stuff, and I'm like, "God, I haven't even thought about that yet," And then I started being like- Me? Is this me though? Is this me right now? And like a perfect example is when I went to my doctor and I was like, "Oh," like as an aside, I was like, "I wonder if like I'm maybe perimenopausal already." And he just looked at me then looked at his notes, and he's "How old are you?"

Rebecca 3:14

Mm.

Jamie 3:15

I think at the time I was like 38 or 39 or something. And, and then he looked up at me and he like laughed and was like, "Jamie, you're not perimenopausal."

Rebecca 3:25

I love a man being like, you and your lady body, I know better."

Jamie 3:28

I was like, "But shouldn't I like get tested?" And he's like, "No, you're not." And I'm like, "What?" I'm like, "How do you know, bitch?"

Rebecca 3:34

Okay, so that's a great example of not being taken seriously at all. I am very lucky that I have an endocrinologist who is up to date and actually probably further ahead in research on

Jamie 3:48

such an adult.

Rebecca 3:50

What? That I have endocrinologist?

Jamie 3:51

Yeah.

Rebecca 3:53

Oh, no, I just have a shit body. But, she took me seriously, and she sent me to get blood work drawn, and my estrogen levels were zero. You know how, like, when you get blood drawn, it's, the ranges of, luteal phase, ovulation. Mine were at post-menopausal level.

Jamie 4:10

Wow.

Rebecca 4:11

Yes, it was a big, fat fucking zero. And I was just like, "Oh." I, yeah, okay, that's probably why, but you were asking, what the first symptoms were, and I would wake up drenched. I would sweat the entire night to, like, where I would sweat through my clothes. my

Jamie 4:28

Like you have like a flu, like a bad flu basically.

Rebecca 4:31

yes, all the way down to, the mattress protector. disgusting. It was disgusting, and I was like, "What the fuck is happening?" And I would get suddenly so hot, during the day. There were a couple times I was taking a shower, and I got so hot that I thought I was gonna pass out or throw up. and I would just, I would be standing in front of the window, at night, butt-ass naked, and it's,

Jamie 4:53

yeah.

Rebecca 4:54

30 degrees out. every fucking stereotypical thing, but it was just,

Jamie 4:59

While you're talking right now, by the way, you're like grabbing your hoodie and airing yourself out like

Rebecca 5:04

But you don't know what it-- you think it's y- like, you feel like it's the flu because you don't know so you're like, "Am I sick? Am I dying? Is this the flu?" You have no idea what's happening, but it's happening, over a long-term basis, so you're like, "Well, this can't be the flu." And then the other thing I was telling you was that I Started feeling absolutely homicidal toward everyone who lived in my house. There was a rage that just... And objectively, I know these people. This is my favorite person in the world right here, the person I've been married to for almost 20 years, and my kid, who is also one of my other favorite people, and I'm gonna kill them. I'm just gonna kill them, and then I'm gonna start over in a different town and just leave their bodies here because the sound of their breathing is driving me up the fucking wall.

Jamie 5:46

ladies and gentlemen, we're gonna take a short break to,

Rebecca 5:48

Get proof of

Jamie 5:49

call, call husband protective services and, yeah, get some proof

Rebecca 5:54

But I remember just sitting there, Rob was eating something, and my head snapped around, and I was like, "Why are you chewing so fucking loud? What?" And he's just sitting there eating like...

Jamie 6:03

It's like that praying mantis, lady on, teacher on Buffy. Yeah.

Rebecca 6:07

Yes, and it was

Jamie 6:09

way around, Exorcist

Rebecca 6:10

every s- every smell, every sound, every texture. It was really like autistic sensory overload, but so much worse because murder. And then at work, I had no patience for anything. Everything that would've just normally like irritated me was now like my new hill to die on, and I had a work nemesis every fucking day, and I just, I ha- I just had no patience, and I would just say, I was like, "Well, that's fucking stupid." I had no filter. And then I actually took a, like a Alzheimer's screener because I was like I'm losing my mind because I would just, I couldn't

Jamie 6:47

Al- I'm peri-Alzheimer's. Fuck.

Rebecca 6:49

I, no, I was like something's wr- I couldn't I started forgetting words. I would be in meetings, and I would forget words. it was really

Jamie 6:56

that happens to me all the time.

Rebecca 6:57

It was just like I would forget words or things, and I'd get flustered. I'd sit here and go b-b-b-b-b, and just for a whole minute while everyone's waiting for you to fucking talk where you just forget a word.

Jamie 7:07

Yeah.

Rebecca 7:08

Legitimately felt like I was going fucking crazy. All my hair fell out too.

Jamie 7:15

Oh.

Rebecca 7:15

Rob was having to open the drain in our shower and snake it out every month because I was, I had lost so much hair.

Jamie 7:23

Yeah. Jesus. Did that, like... Did the ho- homicidalness, branch to, everyone? you're, like, at the grocery store and, you feel the same way about everyone? I kinda feel that same way about everyone nevertheless,

Rebecca 7:38

I just felt like I was getting boxed in. So like the dogs would wanna sit on my lap. I just felt like I was, it was actually better to be out in the world, which I don't even enjoy in real life, but because it was just like away from everyone needing something and being too close to me. I felt trapped. Which again, objectively in my brain I knew was incorrect because I had never felt this way ever.

Jamie 8:00

yeah.

Rebecca 8:01

And, the, and we're just gonna get into TMI territory here. Do you remember in Ferngully?

Jamie 8:07

I

Rebecca 8:08

Did you watch Ferngully

Jamie 8:09

lo- I loved Ferngully. I don't know if I remember it all, but go ahead.

Rebecca 8:12

That's fine. You know the Ooze? Tim Curry played the Ooze. That was my period. That started being my period. Every like couple of weeks it would just be all like ooze. It was black and brown and just, it was disgusting. It was so heavy. I put a tampon in and like I sneezed two hours later and it came out, and it was like a large size tampon, right? Like it was like a super, and it was already so saturated. So then I was like anemic and I felt like shit

Jamie 8:40

God, yeah.

Rebecca 8:42

And it was like, I took a tampon out once and like I, I wasn't even uncareful about it and blood splashed and I was like, What the fuck is happening?" it was like a body horror movie. It was just, I kept expecting like my fucking teeth to start falling out next, right? It just felt like your, my body was breaking down along with my brain. It was nuts. Oh, and itching. Everything itched. It itched down there. My ears itched, like my skin itched, everything fucking itched all the time. And the itchy ears was really fucking weird, but that's apparently, I don't know,

Jamie 9:15

not just-- I'm not just sitting here thinking we're both turning 41 this week, and I'm just, listening to you, and I'm like... Now my brain is "Oh my God, this is gonna happen." I already have very low estrogen levels. Yeah, for other medical reasons. I had, like-- I had to stop taking, the pill. I have an IUD, which is actually great, which, stops me from bleeding. So I don't even know how that works with perimenopause, to be honest.

Rebecca 9:40

pill.

Jamie 9:43

I can't.

Rebecca 9:44

it's a progesterone only and so

Jamie 9:46

Oh, there's no estrogen

Rebecca 9:48

The light at the end of this fucking nightmare tunnel is that because my endocrinologist is Actually someone who listens. They put me on hormone replacement therapy, and so now I take estrogen and progesterone. And I can't begin to tell you the fucking night and day difference.

Jamie 10:07

Nice.

Rebecca 10:07

My, my skin looks better. I have, like, all these little baby hairs from everything grow- like,

Jamie 10:12

growing back, yeah.

Rebecca 10:14

yeah, it's been almost a year since I've...

Jamie 10:16

it's like post-pregnancy almost, like now. Yeah.

Rebecca 10:20

Yes. my skin looks so much better. I can function during the day, and I don't feel like I'm, work doesn't take it out. Oh, and you're so tired all the time too. That was the other thing. You're just exhausted all the time. you really did feel like, "Is this cancer? What is..." You genuinely don't know. Like, your body just feels like it's melting

Jamie 10:36

like betraying you and you're

Rebecca 10:37

Yes. Yes. and there's, it's still shocking how little knowledge people have of women's bodies and the fact that there's still, like, this prevailing, theory that hormone replacement for women actually increases cancer cases. It doesn't. doctors are really hesitant to put women on hormones when they've done studies that shows no, it actually helps, and it doesn't increase your risks of cancer.

Jamie 11:01

Rebecca

Rebecca 11:02

And

Jamie 11:02

doctor, ladies and gentlemen.

Rebecca 11:03

No, but my doctor sh- I... Okay, but also my doctor sent me the study so I could also see it, because she's like, "This is bullshit."

Jamie 11:11

Yeah.

Rebecca 11:11

And then this spirals into my whole theory about, like, how the patriarchy started that rumor, 'cause they want us to be miserable and want women to feel as, weak and shitty as possible so they can control us. But that's a whole other podcast.

Jamie 11:24

I feel like we say that every episode. Something else is a whole other podcast, but I-- it's usually the patriarchy.

Rebecca 11:30

The one thing that would've helped, they're like, "No, no, no. Don't take it." And so then these women are going around. And the other thing is, for my mom and my grandma's generations, they had hysterectomies early, so no one really knew when menopause started in our family, right? And so they didn't know, so I didn't even have, a reference point of, "Is this normal? Did this start happening to you?"

Jamie 11:50

Yeah, I didn't really have a reference point. It wasn't until I was much older that I actually found out my dad's mom, apparently, went through really bad menopause. they actually said it was menopause, but to me, I actually think it sounded more honestly, like mental illness. it sounded like even, bipolar or something like that.

Rebecca 12:11

But Jamie, it makes you feel, it makes you feel bipolar. You feel, I cannot emphasize enough how fucking crazy you feel

Jamie 12:18

Yeah. But like

Rebecca 12:20

who I loved, I couldn't stand. Like you do, you feel bipolar.

Jamie 12:25

Yeah. That's what they were saying, 'cause my mom was saying, so like her mother-in-law, my mom was like, she was-- there was just this like span of I don't know how many years or whatever, where she was just mean. And my mom's like, "When I met her, she was not like that at all." Like it was so weird. And it was even when I was already in the world and I existed and, she was my grandma and I never noticed anything, thankfully. but they did say as we got a little bit older and would maybe notice, like then everything was better. but my mom and then my mom's mom, nothing noticeable that they are like, "I don't even know if I went through it," but...

Rebecca 13:00

Yeah, and that-- talk about not talking about your body or taking women's bodies seriously. I can't imagine being in that time. Honestly, it was just this is just your rite of passage and just something, quote, "normal" that you go through. And so we have these generations of women who are just absolutely fucking miserable, and That's the thing that makes me really angry is like, being miserable should not be the norm. That should not be just a thing that happens. It's like, okay, now you're gonna be fucking miserable for a stretch of 10 years, and that's just, that's not acceptable to me at all.

Jamie 13:33

No.

Rebecca 13:34

No. having someone take you seriously and having a doctor, actually-- And it takes two seconds to run a fucking blood test on your estrogen levels. Just,

Jamie 13:41

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca 13:42

it's not even that hard. But, it's hard to find a doctor who listens and isn't to your point, be like, "Pfft, how old are you?" No, that couldn't possibly happen.

Jamie 13:51

mean, I don't think it was just the age because like also like just took all like my vitals and like other things, so I don't know if it was because of that, but... 'Cause I do like my doctor, but yeah, that was very dismissive and I was

Rebecca 14:02

But it's also a man, though, and that's, and as much as we like our doctors, he will never fucking know what it feels like.

Jamie 14:08

Mm-mm.

Rebecca 14:09

By the way. I just have to tangent here for a second. Because of how heavy the periods are, I went back to my doctor, and I'm like, "What are my options?" And she's like, "An IUD could be an option." She goes, "But with Ehlers-Danlos, there's higher chance of it slipping and perforating your uterus." And I'm like, "Oh."

Jamie 14:29

great.

Rebecca 14:29

"So the other option is an ablation, where they go in and they basically firebomb your uterine line." So those are, as a woman, my option is to either have my uterus punctured or

Jamie 14:42

in the hole!

Rebecca 14:44

take a fucking flamethrower to it, and I'm like, "Are you fucking kidding?" I- it's barbaric, it's fucking barbaric. It's

Jamie 14:51

You hear like a pipe

Rebecca 14:52

a woman.

Jamie 14:53

Beep,

Rebecca 14:54

I know. So then she's like, "Well, we could put you back on the pill."

Jamie 14:57

Sorry.

Rebecca 14:58

And I'm like, "Do you give pain medication for it?" She goes, someone would have to take you..." I'm like, "Fuck you guys. Fuck everyone." So I'm on, I'm back on the pill. It's a progesterone-only pill, but like I'm back on the pill because it was like that or bleed half to death every two weeks or so.

Jamie 15:14

Can I just get like a voluntary hysterectomy?

Rebecca 15:17

Yeah. Well, no. Actually, no, you can't, because I'm sure someone would ask, "Are you sure you don't wanna have children? You should ask your partner if he doesn't wanna have children." When I asked about it, they were like, "Are you sure your husband's done having children?" That was a question to me that was but there was a period of probably, I don't know, three or four years where I was like, I just saw myself devolving at work and I felt really fucking stupid in meetings and I was like, I think I'm, I think I'm stupid and losing my touch, and I can't function.

Jamie 15:44

you're also burnt out.

Rebecca 15:46

yeah, but it was really like my brain doesn't

Jamie 15:49

so much worse than just burnout.

Rebecca 15:52

It was so much worse. It was like I, I legitimately thought it was early onset Alzheimer's, because forgetting words was really scary. It was really scary to just have your brain forget words that you use in everyday life, and to sit here like snapping in a meeting, like trying to remember the fucking word and not. You're like, "Oh my God, I look crazy."

Jamie 16:12

You're like financial advisor.

Rebecca 16:15

No, but for real

Jamie 16:17

No, I know, I know.

Rebecca 16:18

stupid easy words that you should know.

Jamie 16:21

Yeah, that's definitely happened to me.

Rebecca 16:23

I don't know. I think you should probably get... Just, it doesn't hurt to just take a

Jamie 16:26

I think I should know. I actually have an appointment next week, but it's virtual, so I might be like, "Hey, can I come in?"

Rebecca 16:32

You start growing like a lovely mustache. That's the other fun thing,

Jamie 16:35

Oh, I definitely have a lot of good peach fuzz, but that's

Rebecca 16:39

it's like pube- it's like puberty all over again, but so much worse.

Jamie 16:43

Basically we get fucked whether or not we have children. your body gets fucked if you have children, and then your body gets fucked even if you don't have children, just maybe not as bad.

Rebecca 16:54

Here, I'm gonna read these to you. Okay, so some of the very fucking weird ones. So joint pain, that was another one. Had tons of joint pain, muscle aches, having to pee a lot, heart palpitations, like having a rapid heartbeat. your skin gets all dry and itchy, and you notice more wrinkles. a lot of women have just gained a lot of weight really quickly. new allergies, brittle nails, electric shocks. there was like metallic taste, burning... like burning mouth. So bas- a-

Jamie 17:29

Burning mouth. What the fuck?

Rebecca 17:31

your mouth just feels like it's on fire. This is what I mean. It's it must be cancer because none of this... Do you know what I mean? It's like this is...

Jamie 17:38

let's just make this everything. Everything is a symptom,

Rebecca 17:42

But for real. It's called burning mouth syndrome, I think the concept of perimenopause, from what I remember, I did not hear about perimenopause until I was an adult. We learned about menopause, but it was just like you are fertile and then suddenly your period stops and you're done. No one ever

Jamie 17:57

was it about menopause, for sure. That was it.

Rebecca 18:01

No one in my recollection ever, I never heard perimenopause until I was adult. No one ever talked about like, it was just basically like fertile, fertile, hot flashes, your uterus shrivels and dries up, and then you become a, like a crone.

Jamie 18:14

You get hot flashes and, like, you're a bitch all the time. it's like we see in, the media. that's just all, that's all we see. That's all we know.

Rebecca 18:21

Yes, and so when this shit starts happening, like there's no "Everybody Loves Raymond" where, you know, Marie has burning mouth syndrome. She just is standing by the, kitchen window flapping her fucking sweater. There's, there's no media portrayals of like per- it's just the cliches over and over again, right? Like I don't remember any media talking about this or actually taking this seriously or, and again, patriarchy. But so your brain does not immediately go to, "Oh, it must be perimenopause." It's "I've never felt this before in my life. It must, I must be dying. I must be dying."

Jamie 18:53

Yeah. You just, don't know what's wrong and, you feel crazy.

Rebecca 18:57

my ears itch so badly. It must be getting to

Jamie 19:01

it's taking-- I feel like it's like taking, like, all of my mental health issues and then being like, "And now it's a physical problem too."

Rebecca 19:09

And that's why it's so much worse for neurodivergent women,

Jamie 19:12

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca 19:13

because it's so much more amplified, right? like all your ADHD symptoms, all your ADHD symptoms, combine that with brain fog, like it's ramped to 1,000. And then you internalize it, and you're like, "Surely it's..." "It must be me. I must be slipping. I must be getting

Jamie 19:31

Adderall's not working or yeah.

Rebecca 19:33

Correct. When instead it's it- the knowledge of how estrogen affects so many different parts of your body, again, that's not something I learned. A- and we had multiple health classes, right? Like,

Jamie 19:46

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca 19:47

the role estrogen plays in helping your body run is not talked about enough, and then the repercussions of not having any estrogen in your body and what happens to it afterwards is not talked about. When women get pregnant, you're like, "No one fucking told me about this shit." I feel the same way about perimenopause, right? we just get the gloss over, and no one talks about

Jamie 20:08

It's

Rebecca 20:09

actuality.

Jamie 20:10

We're talking about pregnancy more and everything now. I think today, still probably not enough, but definitely talking about it and sharing, like women are sharing what they go through and things that

Rebecca 20:21

secrete a cup of

Jamie 20:22

Okay, nope,

Rebecca 20:23

up to a cup of

Jamie 20:24

there are reasons,

Rebecca 20:26

me. No one told me. You secrete up to a cup of mucus a day and vaginally, and no one fucking told me that at all. So, fuck all of you sex traders who were pregnant before me and didn't divulge that fun little fact. But this is what I mean, like no one tells you this.

Jamie 20:43

I definitely wish we talked about it more. I wish, I think I had mentioned this to my mom before 'cause I think you and I started talking about it more and, a couple of my other friends who are going through perimenopause. and so I, brought it up with my mom and talked to her about it and, I guess it's time we bring my mom on the podcast, I don't know. but she was just kinda like, "Yeah," like my mom didn't- Really, talk about it or say much of anything. And so, like, there could've been, there could've been shit that, my grandma went through or my mom went through, but at the time they didn't really think of it as, like... I, I just think because, as women, even with our periods and everything, and, and with...

Rebecca 21:21

that,

Jamie 21:21

Yeah, and with preg- and pregnancy and birth and, everything, and it's just, you already have so many, shitty symptoms, and you're already... Your body's already going through so much and secreting so much apparently. Thank you, Rebecca.

Rebecca 21:34

And you learn to ignore it, or you're taught to just, tamp it down and blow it off.

Jamie 21:39

Yeah. I'm still convinced that, the majority of women have, a 40% higher pain tolerance than men. for sure, at least.

Rebecca 21:48

1000%. absolutely. And there's not a standard pregnancy, right? so much weird shit happens to your body that there is not one standard, Every woman has a different experience, right? and one woman could have, these weird-ass symptoms. So I think we're just taught to be like, "Well, it is what it is, and that's just part of it,"

Jamie 22:06

Or it doesn't even cross our

Rebecca 22:08

our periods.

Jamie 22:09

maybe, because, I feel like that sometimes. the... Yeah. I'm just... I, chipped a tooth, and I've been having tooth pain. Don't worry, guys, I went to the dentist yesterday. I'm gonna be okay. but, for so long because I didn't have, insurance and everything. And I was just thinking, "No normal person would just, deal with this for as long as I have," I don't think. And I think it's a lot because... No, absolutely not.

Rebecca 22:33

Men wouldn't deal with it, but women are taught to basically sublimate and swallow our pain.

Jamie 22:38

Yeah. Ugh, our bodies are put through so fucking much.

Rebecca 22:42

I told you I didn't need notes for this. I told you I was coming in hot. I have been mad about this for a

Jamie 22:47

For two for, for two episodes now she's been wanting to...

Rebecca 22:50

I have-- this shit makes me so fucking angry, and I could go on a whole rant about, like, how gynecology basically started by experimenting on slave women, right? the whole practice of learning about women's bodies has always come from a place of brutality and cruelty, and it's fucking 2026, and it's still, we're still woefully under-educated and behind in where our knowledge about how female bodies work,

Jamie 23:17

Yeah.

Rebecca 23:18

and how to take care of them.

Jamie 23:19

What kind of made you first start, thinking about this and, researching and, other than obviously, your doctor who's amazing. have you found any other, support or have you been talking to more of your friends about it who are also going through it and that's helpful or... I'm just trying to think as do we have any resources, we can share? That's all I was thinking.

Rebecca 23:39

honestly, it's the same journey as I had with, my autism diagnosis, right? I had to ad- I had to do the research, I had to advocate for myself, and I had to, show up with a lot of notes and detailed, I tracked my symptoms. It, and it all had to stem from me because it was like I knew I was gonna get blown off, and I was ready to fucking fight for it because I f- I felt so awful all the time, and I wanted a reason.

Jamie 24:05

And even if it's not like perimenopause, like nobody should have to feel so awful, like for no reason. And on top of, I was saying just being a woman and like being on your period or going through childbirth and like having that, and then just being like, "Oh, this must be part of that," or "This is just post-pregnancy," blah, blah, blah, whatever. Just like we talked about, like mental health, neurodivergence, and then that adds this like whole other lay- layer where it's like you're like, "Oh, I'm feeling so hot," and it's "Oh, could it be my antidepressants?" Like it could be medications. It could be just this random symptom of, ADHD, autism.

Rebecca 24:42

and you're struggling, and the problem is you struggle on the inside because you still have to, you still have to go to work, you still have to get up, you still have to do everything, right? you still have to do all the shit that you usually do, and you basically have to, stuff it down and exist anyway. But the problem with that is,

Jamie 25:00

every day now anyway, so it's fine.

Rebecca 25:03

but like the problem with that is, the feelings are so much more intense that you just feel fucking crazy. You just

Jamie 25:11

wanna kill the people you live with, yeah, absolutely.

Rebecca 25:14

Yes, that's, and that's... Okay, so we're just gonna again overshare. we're gonna use postpartum as an example, right? What I have heard of it was, "Oh, it's the baby blues, and you're sad and you cry sometime." Not one person was like, "You're gonna have to call your husband to come home because you're, afraid that if you walk by the blender you're gonna put the baby's legs in it, and you can't give the baby a bath because you're afraid that you are just gonna drown her. And so you're afraid to be alone with the baby because..." And no one tells you that part, and you know that if you say, "Hey, I'm afraid I'm gonna drown the baby or put her legs in the blender," they're gonna take the baby away. So then you just... And you've never heard anyone say anything about that ever, so you just

Jamie 25:52

Jesus.

Rebecca 25:53

Don't say anything because no one talks about it, again, you just get these stupid fucking stereotypical, "Oh, then you're a little sad," but, they put you on some, antidepressants, and then you're fine. I didn't know anything about postpartum psychosis. I didn't know anything, and it's the same thing, right? Like... And I think that's why I wanted to do this because I was one of the first people out of my friends to have a baby, right? So I didn't have, any reference points, and I feel like it's, this is the same thing. I don't have any reference points. so no, I didn't really have anyone to talk to about this. and even my friend who's 11 years older, it- she went into it after I did, right? I couldn't talk to anybody about this and I felt fucking crazy for how long before I actually got help for it. And so

Jamie 26:36

Yeah.

Rebecca 26:37

feel, I have very strong feelings about

Jamie 26:39

Lots of, yeah, lots of just like suffering and silence.

Rebecca 26:43

Mm-hmm. And I don't even mean that in, like, a martyr way. I mean that in the same way that you felt like, that I felt like with the baby where it was like if I say this out loud, they are going to take away the kid, and they are

Jamie 26:56

Lock me up.

Rebecca 26:58

Yep, they're gonna 5150 me. I'm gonna be in a 72-hour hold. I can't go to a doctor and be like, my ears itch, and I am going to kill everyone in my family." You can't say that. That sounds nuts.

Jamie 27:11

My ears itch and I was this close to knifing my husband straight in the cranium, because of how he was eating dinner.

Rebecca 27:18

Yes. He scraped his spoon across the bowl, and I stabbed him with a fucking knife and... that's the other problem. Your family thinks you're a fucking bitch, right? Like, why is mom so mean? Like, why is mom so angry? So it's like then you just look like a fucking bitch all the time, or you just look like you're mad all the time, and you're miserable to be around because you are miserable, and you don't know why you're miserable, but you suddenly become a fucking monster. I can't wait to find out what fresh horrors wait for us in the next 20 years or so down the road 'cause I don't know. don't even know what to Google, what happens after menopause because I'm sure then it's gonna be like, now your toenails start falling out." And, oh, actually, this is where I learned if your estrogen's low, your labia basically just disappear, right? Your labia... If you don't have enough estrogen, your labia shrink. And get really small and can disappear. That's a fun thing I learned. I've... What the fuck? That

Jamie 28:15

Do I have small labia?

Rebecca 28:16

No.

Jamie 28:17

Rebekah, hang on. I'm gonna, I'm gonna need you, I'm gonna need your opinion.

Rebecca 28:21

Do

Jamie 28:21

We'll be right back.

Rebecca 28:22

like, that's nothing I ever would've been like, "Oh yeah, that's..." What the fuck? What the actual fuck? So it, this is what I mean. It's just, it's crazy. I did not learn this in health class. I'm gonna, and me saying it out loud sounds fucking crazy, but

Jamie 28:39

mean, I

Rebecca 28:39

it in the document.

Jamie 28:41

think it found s- sounds crazy. I think we're just gonna put it in the document. It'll be in the show notes like a threat.

Rebecca 28:49

Actually, I just need to write a thesis. grew up in the middle of the purity culture movement, right? And so we were already taught that like our bodies are dirty, and not to be super intimate with our bodies. And I think that's had repercussions, and I think all those women who grew up are now entering a phase of life where we actually really do need to be in touch with our bodies, and we don't know how, because we were taught for years not to be.

Jamie 29:13

We're just taught nothing, so then that's where I think the majority of the suffering in silence comes in because you're like, "This is just me." "It's just me. I'm alone. What the fuck is wrong with me? I don't wanna say anything. I don't want people to think I'm crazy. I don't wanna like..." Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Rebecca 29:31

We basically blow off the symptoms or we're not aware that this is not normal Or we internalize it and we blame ourselves instead of looking outward. Because again, in that purity movement, you are clearly the pro- Like, that's... There's a whole thing. There's a whole thing there and I'm just really, I'm just really mad. Talking about this makes me really mad because you feel blindsided. It feels like you were tricked.

Jamie 29:55

you helped me not feel blindsided. I feel like if it weren't, if it wasn't for you and, maybe, Ruth, I wouldn't even really, be thinking about this stuff.

Rebecca 30:02

Yeah. Yeah. You're probably like, "I'm having like a bad depression day," or my ADHD is bad today,"

Jamie 30:07

Yeah, my Adderall's not working. I need a higher dose or, something.

Rebecca 30:12

Oh, Jamie, that's the other thing. like, when you're thinking it's depression symptoms So then you get put on these really high doses of medication that you shouldn't be on, and that actually can make things worse just overall, right? Because they're assuming it's depression or ADHD, so, like, the doses get higher and higher, and it's still not helping.

Jamie 30:27

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca 30:28

And so that's also really harmful to you, too.

Jamie 30:30

Yep.

Rebecca 30:31

That's why we're fucking talking about it. And I know it's, I know it's, we're supposed to connect it to burnout and I-- but, really, this is just...

Jamie 30:39

It's absolutely burnout.

Rebecca 30:41

yeah. Yeah. Anyways, check your labia. If they are shrinking, make an appointment with your doctor.

Jamie 30:47

if you don't have labia.

Rebecca 30:50

I will connect it to burnout and work. When you are struggling with this, at this age, this is a time when we should be moving up to director roles, right? Or, senior level executive roles, right? When you are presenting yourself as fucking feral and forgetting words, it's not a good look, and they're not like, "Let's promote that bitch." You end up looking like... A-and again, through n-no fault of your own, but it's not, the best impression.

Jamie 31:12

God, she always looks, sweaty and, frazzled on calls. I'm like, "I don't know." This is why you shouldn't insist that cameras always have to be on, ladies and gentlemen, because you are judgy motherfuckers. Yeah, she keeps itching her ears.

Rebecca 31:26

she keeps itching her ears in meetings, and,

Jamie 31:28

think she, she can be a senior director. Everything.

Rebecca 31:35

you so badly at work because you feel like you're falling apart, and then you're likely not gonna, push yourself as, a candidate for other jobs, and you're gonna lose out on opportunities. It affects everything, relationships.

Jamie 31:46

I don't know if this is true, but, like, I mean, I've heard-- And like I said, I don't hear much about perimenopause, but One thing I've heard about menopause is, some women, don't have, um, a high libido at all. They, lose whatever they have. But I've also heard that some women, get a super high libido all of a sudden out of nowhere.

Rebecca 32:04

Yeah, I just was like, "Why don't, why-- Am I not attracted to you anymore?" And it was like, "No, you just have no estrogen in your body," and, the pheromones are off, right? So once everything got back on, I was like, "Oh, okay. Good." But it was really scary. I was like, "What is happening?" and nothing changed. He didn't do anything different. it wasn't him. It was me, but it was just like, you don't know that. You--

Jamie 32:25

this is a dumb question. Do both estrogen and testosterone affect your libido?

Rebecca 32:33

Yes.

Jamie 32:34

I guess I always thought it was, like, testosterone only. Why did I think that? Is it just

Rebecca 32:37

because again, we're not taught, but, like, estrogen also, it affects the health of your vulva. It affects the health of your labia, your vagina. You get... there's no l- there's-- Lubrication is really-- Estrogen's really important.

Jamie 32:50

sick, she don't want any, you know?

Rebecca 32:53

But, it's really important for lubrication, and without it, everything hurts and feels really sensitive. And if it's itchy or tight, 'Cause then the skin gets itchy, right? And it gets uncomfortable, and it feels tight, and it's uncomfy, right?

Jamie 33:07

all of this.

Rebecca 33:08

And I know. This is what I mean. It's And because we

Jamie 33:11

How dare you, the week of our 41st birthdays?

Rebecca 33:14

I know. that's what I mean. It's like, uh, this started when I was, what, 36? I started ha- and I didn't get on hormone replacement until, has it been, like, a year now?

Jamie 33:25

Yeah, maybe about a year. Maybe not

Rebecca 33:27

yeah, it was four years of this shit. It was four years of this shit. The first time I brought it up with the doctor, he's like, "Well, you should probably just work out more.

Jamie 33:37

Oh,

Rebecca 33:37

probably sweating 'cause you're overweight." And I'm like, "I don't think being fat makes you sweaty in your sleep, but okay."

Jamie 33:44

time. Yeah.

Rebecca 33:45

You're-- Yeah. It was, "You're hot all-- You're-- It's probably 'cause you're heavier."

Jamie 33:49

And then you're like, "I'm cold all the time." And they're like, "Poor circulation. Exercise more."

Rebecca 33:53

Yes. Yes. So that was a thing. It's true, though. It was just like, I

Jamie 33:58

Moving your body is great, and that's, very important. But, it just to come-- Yeah, for that to

Rebecca 34:03

I'm sweating during a time where I don't move at all, right? I'm...

Jamie 34:06

I'm curious. I wanna know if like... I mean, I know it probably disproportionately happens to women way more, but does it happen to men? Do men go to the doctor as fucking adults, like adult men, and the doctor... And they're like, "Oh, this is wrong. I don't know what's happening." And the doctor's "You need to exercise. You should lose some weight." Does that happen? I never hear about that.

Rebecca 34:28

Then of course not. I've never

Jamie 34:31

If you never hear of- if you've never heard about it, of course not. Of course.

Rebecca 34:35

But do you know what I mean, though? Every time Rob has gone to the doctor, they're like, "Oh, here's a pill."

Jamie 34:39

Yeah. How's your dick doing? Can you get it up? No? Here's a pill.

Rebecca 34:44

I meant for cholesterol, but...

Jamie 34:45

I, I wasn't saying that

Rebecca 34:47

Oh, okay. Oh, okay.

Jamie 34:48

meant m-

Rebecca 34:48

I don't want him to think I'm erroneously dick-shamey.

Jamie 34:50

I am. I'm dick shaming him. Rob, it's me. Hi.

Rebecca 34:53

He's never come home and been like, "My doctor made me feel really bad about my body, and, I just feel,

Jamie 34:58

but also Rob would never.

Rebecca 35:00

But do you know what I mean, though?

Jamie 35:02

Yeah. I'm, I'm not saying it never happens, but it's like you don't hear about it, and like I hear that from just so many women

Rebecca 35:09

So

Jamie 35:10

all the time, and obviously that's been my whole experience. That's why I've hated doctors for so long.

Rebecca 35:15

Yes.

Jamie 35:16

That's why I like avoid going to the doctor.

Rebecca 35:19

This wouldn't absolutely destroy us, I would love to run, an experiment where we just make appointments with different doctors with these symptoms and see, what they tell us and, like, how many instances of doctors would be like, "You just need to lose weight first," versus, taking them seriously. That would be a really

Jamie 35:32

Yeah, we each go to like six different doctors, three, three men, three women.

Rebecca 35:37

Just see what they say.

Jamie 35:39

our pod- our podcast of six listeners. We're like, "Guys, we're gonna take it on the road, all right?"

Rebecca 35:44

Yeah, no,

Jamie 35:46

get a bus, a tour bus, Perimenopause tour bus.

Rebecca 35:50

I'm genuinely curious. There's this brand, I don't know if you've seen it. They go on the road, and they have this TENS unit that they hook up to men, and it's supposed to simulate, period cramps. Have you seen that?

Jamie 35:59

have seen that.

Rebecca 36:00

Okay, we need to do that for men, but with, perimenopause symptoms. So basically, we just, throw hot water on them, then ice cubes, then hit them in the balls with a hammer just to, simulate perimenopause symptoms, and then so they can see, what it's like. I'm pretty sure they haven't hit them in the balls with a hammer. I think we need to add that detail in. Peri- Are you typing in perimenopause simulator?

Jamie 36:21

I was gonna- It's like a game on Steam. Oh my God, is this the video game we need to make on Steam somehow? whoa. The MenoVest help individuals... Wait, hang on. All I see... Hang on, Rebecca. tell me the fucking problem with this. I'm gonna put this in the chat, wherever it is. Tell me the fucking p- problem with this link as soon as you go to it. It's about a menopause simulator vest.

Rebecca 36:47

It's literally the first thing I see is three tech douchebros sitting on a

Jamie 36:52

three old white men. Okay, like, at least two old,

Rebecca 36:57

I'm

Jamie 36:57

on a stage. Yeah, tech bros.

Rebecca 37:00

Jamie, speaking of fucking sexist shit, I got an Instagram ad. It is a blanket with a hole in the middle, and the commercial is this woman just gingerly lying down on a bed, and the man, spreads the blanket on her lap, and there's basically a hole where her puss is. And the whole premise of this is eating your girl out so she stays warm and you don't have to get too hot keeping your head under the blanket. It is the most heinous fucking thing I have ever seen, and also, if you don't love me enough to get sweaty eating me out, then don't come near me. And what woman is gonna get

Jamie 37:37

why are we even under the blanket? I would just be like, "Let's not be under the blanket."

Rebecca 37:41

But that's what I mean. It's for all those girls

Jamie 37:43

through perimenopause. I'm fucking hot already. Don't put me under a blanket.

Rebecca 37:47

too. I'm putting this in, what is it called? It's called the,

Jamie 37:50

Show notes.

Rebecca 37:51

I wanna say it's called, the love blanket, but I don't know.

Jamie 37:54

I thought you were gonna talk about that, blanket. I, for a while, when I was more on Instagram than I am now, I was seeing the, sex blanket. They were like, "Oh, we have this really easy blanket that you lay on top of your bed to have sex, and then you just wash it after." And it makes sense, but I'm just like, I don't know why it's, a special blanket. I don't... I don't know. It's maybe, l- liquids don't soak through. They just, s- sit on top. I don't know. I have no idea. I just remember seeing that a lot.

Rebecca 38:24

Ugh,

Jamie 38:24

you looking at? You look disgusted right now.

Rebecca 38:27

I am ruining my Google algorithm right now 'cause I don't remember what it's called. But, I am determined to find this.

Jamie 38:33

I'll put an in this episode, and that's where we can put things that need to be in the

Rebecca 38:37

but yeah, so that's all I have to say. I'm sure I'll think of more horrific things that happen to your fucking body.

Jamie 38:42

I'm just really interested in this MenoVest dude. There's a video,

Rebecca 38:45

All right. let's...

Jamie 38:46

gonna skip through the video.

Rebecca 38:48

It's a training tool to help men experience hot flashes while working. Oh, fuck off. Fuck off.

Jamie 38:55

This video isn't, men suffering,

Rebecca 38:57

to feel rage. They need to feel crazy. They need to forget words. It promotes menopause allyship in the workplace, increases intersectional engagement and attendance to events, cultivates conversation and promotes curiosity about menopause, prompts a more empathetic response. That's...

Jamie 39:12

What is... This video at the end, it says, "This video doesn't exist." I wonder what happened. They had to take-- oh,

Rebecca 39:19

their wives are like, their wives are like, "Are you fucking kidding me?"

Jamie 39:23

Absolutely not. I feel like the only pictures of women on here are, like, stock photos.

Rebecca 39:29

It's all me- it's all

Jamie 39:31

I know.

Rebecca 39:32

just stand- n- oh.

Jamie 39:35

the MenoVest experience. It's, a fucking theme park. Oh my God, that's what we do. We make a fucking menopause theme park, and there's two different entrances Hear me out. The women go through one, the men go through the other, and then they, maybe meet together at the end. So at the end when they meet together, the women are like, "Oh my God, that was so fun. That was so cool." 'Cause we're giving women, this really, nice experience. Meanwhile, the men are going through the menopause experience as a theme park rides, roller coasters of emotions. that was so dumb. That was so bad.

Rebecca 40:12

The dryness simulator.

Jamie 40:15

Oh, I wanna make the title Roller Coasters of Emotions, but I think people will just think that I like tight boned.

Rebecca 40:23

Shit.

Jamie 40:24

a theme park with roller coasters of emotions.

Rebecca 40:27

Honestly, I just wanna line men up and just give each one of them a swift kick in the balls reparations.

Jamie 40:31

what did I just read recently that I was like... It was like, I think all men should start out in prison and have to earn their way out.

Rebecca 40:40

Yes. Correct. I agree with that one. That's a great idea. I

Jamie 40:45

All right. Um.

Rebecca 40:46

A menopause simulator. I have to close this. It's making me actually more angry.

Jamie 40:50

I don't know. I might get in touch. We should bring these men on the show. You know what I

Rebecca 40:54

I will say there is one good... Okay, so I'm gonna end this. There is one good thing about menopause. In your feral state, and actually even though I'm on hormones now, you don't give a fuck, and it's s- I'm like, "No, I don't wanna do that. It's... No." And it's so fucking freeing, and you don't fucking care what anyone thinks anymore. It's great.

Jamie 41:19

I do already feel like that.

Rebecca 41:22

But,

Jamie 41:22

I assumed that was just, it was like I'm 40 now, and I automatically feel that way.

Rebecca 41:27

I guess, but it's

Jamie 41:27

All right,

Rebecca 41:32

I hate this and I'm not doing it." And I just don't care anymore, and it's... That's really liberating.

Jamie 41:40

everybody. Thanks for,

Rebecca 41:42

yeah, you don't wanna deal with anyone's shit anymore, and you don't, and that's pretty great. And men. You know that, right? that's what I'm talking

Jamie 41:49

Oh, they know.

Rebecca 41:51

Okay. Just wanna be very clear about

Jamie 41:53

They know. I was just thinking how great it would be if you're just like, "And it's just very liberating." And then it was like, "Thanks for listening to Burnout Collective." that's the end. That's the end of the show.

Rebecca 42:05

No, but really, thanks for listening to me rant and rave, for about an hour and a half now. But really, though, I'm gonna be your mean friend and tell you the things that your other friends haven't told

Jamie 42:14

Yeah, if you have any questions about perimenopause or menopause, like obviously contact Rebecca. Rebecca@burnoutcollective.com. She's got you guys.

Rebecca 42:22

Yes. Yes. All right. We'll see you again later, maybe, if I don't blow up.

Jamie 42:29

Okay, love you. Bye.

Rebecca 42:31

love you. Bye.