Jamie 0:05

Don't you remember at SLH you edited my story? Do you remember that? I did the shopping band.

Rebecca 0:12

yes, I know Jamie. That's the direction I'm trying to like.

Jamie 0:16

Oh.

Rebecca 0:17

you in too,

Jamie 0:18

Oh. Why didn't you just say that? Why are you acting like you didn't know?

Rebecca 0:22

because it's not gonna sound like a conversation.

0:27

I am Jamie. And I'm Rebecca. Welcome to the Burnout Collective.

Rebecca 0:35

I am talking about this isn't, like talking about this makes me feel embarrassed. That it's like I should have a fucking handle on my money. And it's embarrassing to admit and realize that we're getting by, but for the therefore, for the grace of God, like

Jamie 0:49

yeah.

Rebecca 0:50

I should be better about it and I'm not. And that's embarrassing to admit.

Jamie 0:54

Yeah. And even being,

Rebecca 0:56

See, I'm be, I'm being vulnerable and sharing my feelings. Jamie, I just would like to point that out. Thank you. I'm really trying. I'm really trying.

Jamie 1:04

Rebecca has her hand to like her chest right now. You guys like, not your neck? No. Oh.

Rebecca 1:10

I'm like, hold it on. But don't you feel like you should have your shit together

Jamie 1:15

oh, of course

Rebecca 1:16

age? I know. And

Jamie 1:18

40. I'm always like, yeah, I was just talking with Adon the other day about our parents at this age and

Rebecca 1:29

they, they had a house. They didn't have college debt. That's a big one. They didn't have college debt.

Jamie 1:34

yeah, I don't, I actually don't remember when my dad paid off his loans. Like my moms were paid off like really quickly. But then my dad, was a pastor, so he went

Rebecca 1:46

Oh,

Jamie 1:46

to school and he has a bachelor's,

Rebecca 1:48

yeah, but there's a whole spiel on what. The cost of college then, and like how little it was to get a house and the fact that their parents come from likely generational like how many people's parents like, helped them make a down payment on their first house,

Jamie 2:03

Yeah.

Rebecca 2:04

they had a lot of help and there were, and when you got a job, you could keep your job for 20 to 30 years. There were a lot of those and now there's not a lot of that either. circumstances for earning and making money and holding onto it, were, I feel like very different. I've never been in a job longer than three years. So you don't have, you don't have the ability or people don't let you stay in the same place for that long. Usually

Jamie 2:26

Yeah,

Rebecca 2:27

it's not as stable., And again, I feel like at the caveat and say it was very easy for people of a certain skin color. I realized that,

Jamie 2:34

Oh yeah.

Rebecca 2:35

I know there's inequality across the board there, and I do recognize that.

Jamie 2:39

I was just trying to find like how much student loans lost and like, so when would our parents have like. Maybe seventies, sixties, seventies, yearly to, oh, this is tuition though. The average cost of tuition and fees. To go to college is more expensive, so you need to take out more in student loans or you need to take out student loans. Whereas before, some people may not have needed to take out any or as much.

Rebecca 3:06

Or they could work and pay their way through college, like, oh, woo.

Jamie 3:10

Yeah. That's crazy.

Rebecca 3:12

And then you're, you can't even kill yourself and get out of it. Like your student loan debt follows you into death, right? Like your next kit have to pay it off. Or like your estate has to pay it off,

Jamie 3:22

I'm trying to remember. If that is student loan debt, federal loan, I guess is private loans. So federal goes away. If you die.

Rebecca 3:32

It's the private ones

Jamie 3:34

It's basically up to the lender. They're not, they don't legally have to discharge it upon someone's death. But it says most of them do. I wonder

Rebecca 3:45

wink.

Jamie 3:47

Yeah. Right.

Rebecca 3:48

Also you, what did you bold, what was that phrase? You bolded? was it angry? Angry overspending. What was it? you bolded some Yes. That I've never heard of and but

Jamie 3:59

I think that's what you and I were talking about

Rebecca 4:01

yeah,

Jamie 4:03

where

Rebecca 4:03

never heard of it, but that's

Jamie 4:05

I've never heard it called

Rebecca 4:06

That's the feeling.

Jamie 4:07

Yeah, exactly. That's why I bolded it.'cause I was like, absolutely. That's me. I was like, this is it.

Rebecca 4:12

That was fascinating.

Jamie 4:14

rebel all my

Rebecca 4:14

Is it just because it's fuck it, I don't wanna, I don't wanna be left out. Or is it like, I'm gonna be in debt till I'm debt anyway?

Jamie 4:20

After months of extreme frugality, you snap and spend$500 on things you don't need just to feel normal again, because the D Oh my God. It's like going on a diet dude. You're depriving yourself. Yeah. You're depriving yourself so much. Of things and extra things and special little treats for a special little guy. And it reaches a breaking point. And then your brain is I need relief from this. I'm gonna do this. And overspending provides temporary relief, even if it does like create guilt and sets you back or puts you back into a cycle of debt and shame. Um,

Rebecca 4:57

That's, that's fucked up. You are so right. It is, it's exactly like, it's exactly like being on a diet

Jamie 5:03

Yeah.

Rebecca 5:04

and then you're just poorer than ever. It does, like it doesn't help. You're not gonna learn anything. You just Yeah. You just accrue more debt.'cause it just shame. A,

Jamie 5:13

Yeah.

Rebecca 5:13

that's

Jamie 5:14

And the article didn't say anything by the diet about the diet, by the way. That's all me.

Rebecca 5:18

no, I, no, I think that's a brilliant fucking metaphor.

Jamie 5:21

That's true.

Rebecca 5:22

I've never thought of it like that, but that's a hundred percent correct. That makes so much sense. Have you ever actually tried to like. Get outta that cycle? Or have you ever tried to like consciously do something about it and I don't know, I'm not saying this is what, like maybe address it in therapy. I know some people address it in therapy or some people go to like overs, spenders anonymous. Which again, I'm not saying we need, but like, have you

Jamie 5:41

Again, I'm not saying we need Rebecca's like afraid. She like, you know, that you've, you've told us too much.

Rebecca 5:51

I know, I'm like really,

Jamie 5:53

You are like, not that we need to go to Overspending Anonymous or anything.

Rebecca 5:56

I know, I'm really panicking over here to be totally honest. but like, have you, have you tried to like, consciously ever just change the way you you I,

Jamie 6:05

Don't you remember at SLH you edited my story? Do you remember that? I did the shopping band.

Rebecca 6:12

yes, I know Jamie. That's the direction I'm trying to like.

Jamie 6:16

Oh.

Rebecca 6:17

you in too,

Jamie 6:18

Oh. Why didn't you just say that? Why are you acting like you didn't know?

Rebecca 6:23

because it's not gonna sound like a conversation.

Jamie 6:25

Yeah. You should have said, Hey, didn't you do a shopping band once? And write a story about it? what is wrong with you now? It's just awkward.

Rebecca 6:35

wrong with me is that I, oh my God,

Jamie 6:39

Oh, you're gonna, this is gonna be fun to edit.

Rebecca 6:41

I know, I'm really embarrassed. I'm mad at myself and I'm embarrassed.

Jamie 6:45

I'm not, I'm just

Rebecca 6:46

No, don't be sorry. I, it's very, this whole thing is very fucking

Jamie 6:49

I thought you didn't remember. It didn't make any sense that you wouldn't just say, Hey, didn't you do a shopping pan

Rebecca 6:56

I am trying to direct the conversation naturally and not seem bossy.

Jamie 7:00

by being so unnatural. I'm sorry, I'm done.

Rebecca 7:04

No, please don't. I'm,

Jamie 7:06

I'm trying to even remember. I remember it was hard as fuck. It was so hard. And I just told myself, I was like, okay. I wish the article was still up, but of course they took it down and I don't know where I like

Rebecca 7:19

so good

Jamie 7:20

kept it. I do, I wish I had it, but he was funny too'cause I was like trying to make it funny and I was like, Rebecca, just leave that in.'cause she edited it and I was like, just leave that in.

Rebecca 7:30

It was a good one.

Jamie 7:31

Yeah, I just told myself did I only do a month? I think I only did a month, which I think if you're gonna do it, I think you should do two or three months. think Ruth's done that too. Like she wouldn't come on as a guest, but, she might have some commentary on it. It was difficult. I,

Rebecca 7:50

you, wasn't it you eating cheesecake in your car? Is that how I remember it?

Jamie 7:54

of the jokes and I can't remember something

Rebecca 7:57

That one made me laugh really hard. And also I was like, I also relate deeply to this.

Jamie 8:03

That was the moment that like, you were like, we're friends, but now we're best friends.

Rebecca 8:08

Mm-hmm.

Jamie 8:08

yeah, I just, I told myself that like I could buy, like food obviously. Um, or things like I needed that I don't already have, because I had to say that because otherwise I'd be like. I need lotion and I'd like buy a, I'd buy a fancy lotion, even though I have a shit ton of lotion at home. so I had to, I like wrote down rules for myself, like I set rules and, uh, but it was like, obviously I can buy like paper towel if I need paper towel. But and also like, but don't buy paper towels that are on a good sale. If you already have paper towels at home, you're not allowed to buy it.'cause that gets me too. And like I,'cause like, I, I grew up like that. Like we always talk about my mom's father, my grandfather as being just like the most frugal person in the world. Like my grandfather's wallet do. Did you ever watch Seinfeld? No. No. George Costanza's wallet was just this like huge mess and stuff coming out of it, that was literally my, I have a picture of it. That was literally my grandfather's wallet. He held it together with a rubber band.

Rebecca 9:13

Oh God.

Jamie 9:14

And it was full of expired coupons, especially for like fast food places. And my grandfather also a Taurus would go into McDonald's and try to use it. And then if they'd say like, oh, I'm sorry, this expired three years ago. my grandpa would be like, like he would play like the old man card.

Rebecca 9:35

He used his little old man cuteness for evil.

Jamie 9:38

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca 9:39

Good for him,

Jamie 9:40

He also is such a competitive person that when we were kids, he would cheat at cards to win. And as we got older, the grandchildren started catching on and they were like, grandpa, but you didn't. And then he'd be like, oh, I didn't know. And like we knew he knew. We knew he knew, but he would like cheat to try to beat his grandchildren at card games. Amazing man. I love him. He's great.

Rebecca 10:04

I also cheat to beat my daughter at games.

Jamie 10:06

You know how I feel about cheating. That's,

Rebecca 10:09

I do,

Jamie 10:09

that's, I do.

Rebecca 10:11

I do.

Jamie 10:12

I think once I actually, I think I told you, I was like playing cards with Alyssa and her kids when they were really little and, they were just kind of getting out of the, letting their kids win all the time phase because like they were getting old enough and they wanted them, you know, to learn. Like, sometimes you lose and like, it's okay. And it wasn't even a loss, it was just like something I did where like, you want cards or something and I, I was like, oh, do you have this? It wasn't Go Fish, but it was something, and I like took a card from them and they lost it and started crying and I was just like, was I supposed to do that? Like, I'm sorry. And they were like, no, no, we're trying to teach them. I felt so bad. But my family was like pretty frugal growing up. So like we always say that's part of, that's just like part of our family. So there is still a little bit of that in me. but I was gonna say, that's why like I see something on sale, I'm like, oh, this is on sale. And like sometimes it's like, oh, do I need it? And it kept hang on another thing I was thinking, what is the phenomenon around ordering something on Amazon? What is the phenomenon where like you're like, oh, I need this thing. I'm gonna order it on Amazon, and then you're like, what else should I add here? Do you do that? Is that just me?

Rebecca 11:28

If you go to a grocery store or like any type of retail store, you know how like you'll kind of wind like Marshall's or TJ Maxwell will wind up and they have these walls. It's like that, but like the online version, it'll be like, Hey, maybe you also, and it again, the algorithm knows you, so you're like, oh, I do need that. And it makes suggestions. So yes. It's not just you, it's on purpose. And 100% I do it too.

Jamie 11:48

I wonder if it partly stems from do you remember Amazon before? Like free shipping and so, and like other places now, not everywhere, but where you have to meet like the threshold. I wonder if it partially stems from that though, where like we're trying to be like, oh, we can't just ship this one thing

Rebecca 12:06

that's a really good point too. Yeah, I didn't think about it like that, but yes.

Jamie 12:09

even though

Rebecca 12:10

it's, yeah, it's like a wall while I'm here and I'm, I can just get it all at once again, somewhere there's like an econ major who's losing their fucking shit and is it's on purpose.

Jamie 12:18

No, it,

Rebecca 12:19

It's supposed to be like that. No, that's a good point about the free shipping though. What happens when two Tauruses decide to talk about spending money?

Jamie 12:28

I know we did an episode on spending, this is supposed to be about money and debt, and yet we still did it about sweat bending, which I mean, it's.

Rebecca 12:34

The other thing you had on there was like, well, why bother? I'm gonna be in debt anyway. Like I have student loans anyway. Like people might be thinking like that. And so it's just like, well, fuck it. what's the

Jamie 12:43

Or like you can never get ahead, like when you can never seem to get

Rebecca 12:46

never.

Jamie 12:46

and you're just

Rebecca 12:47

can't buy a house.

Jamie 12:49

Why should I not buy this like Starbucks coffee?

Rebecca 12:52

Yep.

Jamie 12:53

yeah.

Rebecca 12:53

It's just fatalistic thinking because you're like, I'm not, I'm never not gonna be able to do what I want anyways, so I might as well,

Jamie 13:00

Yeah.

Rebecca 13:01

except the problem is you are also correct because you can't afford a house and like things are too fucking expensive.

Jamie 13:07

They really are. That reminds me of what I put in the notes that we didn't say, but like in the personal finance world, like there are always those quote unquote success stories of people who paid off massive amounts of debt and

Rebecca 13:21

Quit their jobs and sail around the world with their

Jamie 13:23

how they did it. And the majority of the time, like these stories were literally just here's how I paid off all my student loan debt with daddy's money. But it didn't say that. It made it sound like they did it on their own. But then as you read it, they were like, or they were like, my greatuncle died and I got$30,000. And it's okay. Obviously,

Rebecca 13:44

my dad offered to loan me some money. Like,

Jamie 13:47

To get me started, my dad gave me a cool one mill and I

Rebecca 13:52

So your parents are rich enough to give you that much money. You're fuck you.

Jamie 13:56

you don't have debt. Debt is not,

Rebecca 13:59

And a lot of these financial gurus are fucking white guys. Let me tell you how I made money. Let me tell you how I got ahead.

Jamie 14:05

I did wanna bring up, I wonder if it's still, no, I think they got rid of that too, probably. But there was that one article that our friend Cat wrote, and it was like, it was so funny'cause it was actually like a story about how. A lot of the times it was like people doing crazy side hustles to make extra money to put toward like debt. And this one guy was like selling like crickets online or something, and it was really gross, but it was like drop shipping crickets basically.

Rebecca 14:36

Yeah. That one was weird.

Jamie 14:38

Do you remember that?

Rebecca 14:40

I do. Yes, I do.

Jamie 14:42

Oh my gosh. Here it is. It's on, uh, Florida today. Meet the man who makes$600 a month selling crickets. How do you even come into that? how are you like, all right, like him and his wife needed extra money to pay off student loans. what do we do?

Rebecca 14:58

I saw an AI video the other day of a hippopotamus having diarrhea on a leopard, and it was ai, but like somebody's brain had to think of that in order to create the, prompt it. anyway, my point is it's the same kind of brain who's like, Hey, we should solve crickets like in a million years. Got into my head, could not think of that, but someone did and now they're doing it and. Apparently that's what we didn't. So who, that's hyper brain

Jamie 15:25

That's so crazy.

Rebecca 15:26

crickets.

Jamie 15:27

And it was to like sell to like reptile owners who need to feed crickets to their pets. I don't know anything about raising crickets. He admits I.

Rebecca 15:38

He's the Jeff Bezos of cricket sales.

Jamie 15:40

have short lifespans and unique nutritional and environmental needs. It's a lot of work that takes a lot of knowledge. But when I set up my business, I found someone who breeds them. He takes care of them, he ships them. I just handle the orders. Wow.

Rebecca 15:52

Oh my God. I thought you were joking. It is drop shipping crickets.

Jamie 15:56

That's so funny. But hey, you know. You know what? This is the only one I actually remember besides the sea of my daddy gave me money stories. Like this is the only actual one I remember it was so

Rebecca 16:10

is brave enough. To stand up.

Jamie 16:13

And drop ship. Crickets.

Rebecca 16:15

The hero we didn't know we, we needed or wanted.

Jamie 16:19

do you wanna come on the show and talk about interviewing this young man?

Rebecca 16:24

You know what, I'm just gonna caveat. I've had such like a long week. I'm so squirrely right now, but what about women who decided to sell like their underwear online or like pictures of their feet or like farts in a jar?

Jamie 16:35

Yeah,

Rebecca 16:36

Those women also deserve to be applauded for their ingenuity and

Jamie 16:40

absolutely.

Rebecca 16:41

amazing side hustle ideas.

Jamie 16:43

Yeah. Gamer girl bath water,

Rebecca 16:46

I was just thinking that.

Jamie 16:47

Yeah,

Rebecca 16:48

Yep.

Jamie 16:49

that's what I say.

Rebecca 16:50

Good for her.

Jamie 16:51

If people have money to spend on that stuff, take advantage of that and take their money. You need it

Rebecca 16:56

Yeah. here in all your debt research, did you come across like the actual physiological and psychological effects of being in debt?

Jamie 17:04

Yeah.

Rebecca 17:05

Like how it affects your blood pressure, how it affects like your health overall, you're just constantly in a state of stress.

Jamie 17:11

I didn't get into the, like specifics, like blood pressure and stuff. I wouldn't say necessarily like physical. It was just more like overall, like 92% said that like financial stress caused them physical side effects. But

Rebecca 17:29

Yeah,

Jamie 17:30

it was like not sleeping,

Rebecca 17:31

sleeping, you can't think about anything else.

Jamie 17:34

gaining too much weight, losing too much weight, stuff like

Rebecca 17:37

and then depression too.'cause you're like avoiding answering the phone.'cause it might be collections or like checking the mail so then you're, isolating yourself.

Jamie 17:45

Yeah.

Rebecca 17:46

also I think that's a lot like miscarriages, they're not talked about, but it's way more common than people think. But there's a level of like embarrassment and shame because it's not really talked about a lot. And I think people just sit alone with it

Jamie 17:58

I think it's talked about more now, a lot more than like when we started, like in doing personal finance even. But yeah, it's still not talked about enough and, people struggle and that's it. Yeah. Like people were saying, I don't tell, so some people probably don't even tell their partner, oh, I just spent all this money, and I'm not gonna tell my partner about it, or I can't tell my partner'cause I'm afraid or ashamed or whatever.

Rebecca 18:22

hiding. Have you hit, have you ever hit a purchase? I have. I'm just full disclosure. I have, I am

Jamie 18:28

I haven't, I guess I haven't really, I've only really had one relationship where like we were sharing money. so I just haven't had that much experience where we were sharing money where it's like anyone else's business, you know?

Rebecca 18:40

Yeah, that's true.

Jamie 18:42

But go on.

Rebecca 18:42

What's really interesting is I'll be embarrassed, like I bought this for myself and I don't really need it. But then when Rob's looking at a guitar, I'll be like, you work really hard and you deserve

Jamie 18:51

Yeah.

Rebecca 18:52

So part of me also feels like, do we buy it? Because it's I, like, I work hard, I deserve it. Like we, we don't do that for ourselves. Like we don't say that to ourselves. Instead, it's just like spiraling and shame and anxiety. But like for the people we love, we're like, no, you 100% deserve to spend money on things that make you happy.

Jamie 19:09

Sometimes we even buy them something, that we want and then we take it from them when it arrives to make ourselves feel better.

Rebecca 19:18

1000% correct. That is, that's my favorite way to give gifts.

Jamie 19:22

Did you like that?

Rebecca 19:23

But really though, like there's no, there's not a sense of compassion for ourselves.'cause like we also are

Jamie 19:29

that's everything, right?

Rebecca 19:30

I know

Jamie 19:31

That's the whole talk to yourself like you're talking to a friend.'cause to ourselves we're like, you shouldn't have done that. Now. You've ruined everything. You're a piece of shit. you can't do anything, You're never gonna get through this, But then with a friend, we're like, you're gonna get through this. You, you're gonna work it out. It's

Rebecca 19:48

or you're mean. I'm like, Jamie, you don't have sticker money right now?

Jamie 19:50

like that. Like that's fair. I needed to hear that. You know, you were being a good friend. Yeah. Like, I couldn't even afford to buy stickers. Rebecca was like, she had the audacity when I like, didn't have a job to show me these amazing stickers she got. And they were like, I don't know, it was just like a 20,$25 thing. And I was like, oh, I wanna get some. And she was like, she told me I couldn't. She was like, Jamie, no. You don't have sticker money, but I needed to hear it. So

Rebecca 20:16

I am sorry.

Jamie 20:17

No, Rebecca's crying.

Rebecca 20:18

I should have let you

Jamie 20:19

I.

Rebecca 20:19

I'm sorry.

Jamie 20:20

I should have let you, I'm like, actually, I pull out the stickers. I like did get them like, do you know how much interest I paid on my credit card for these stickers?

Rebecca 20:29

You are like, I have hid purchases from you,

Jamie 20:33

That's hilarious.

Rebecca 20:34

There's also a level of me that wonders if, like, we were not destitute, but like we definitely were Kmart on layaway back to school clothes type of kids. And part of me wonders if like, there's something there, like either embarrassment or not wanting to go back to that or feeling like that.

Jamie 20:54

I think so. Well because like, I think that goes back to the whole diet thing, you know, because like as kids and like growing up, if like our family was on a financial diet, I just hate the word diet. So now I'm like, what else can we, Then as

Rebecca 21:09

on a financial cleanse,

Jamie 21:11

And then we have we have our own money and like we're adults now, or we have, and or we have our own families. we're like, I don't want my family to feel like that because also kids are mean. I was made fun of for clothes. Like I wore like a lot of hand me down boy clothes, like a lot growing up. and yeah. And so maybe maybe it's part that too.

Rebecca 21:32

It's like having the thing will, having the thing will make me feel better.

Jamie 21:38

That's it. It's literally just like the instant, like dopamine kick like we get from shopping. that's what that article was saying.

Rebecca 21:49

Healing your inner poor child by spending money.

Jamie 21:52

Now that is the whitest woman thing you could possibly

Rebecca 21:58

Somewhere someone has written that article I would bet so much fucking money on that. But I, it's true though. It's like I, I sometimes, I was like, why do you have so many clothes? It's like,'cause I never had so many clothes. You know what I mean?

Jamie 22:10

Did you say that to him? I'm surprised.

Rebecca 22:12

think I'm

Jamie 22:13

I'm surprised you

Rebecca 22:14

I think I'm poor. No, I think I'm white trash everything I'm saying. I'm like, oh, that's, yeah. No, I think I'm white trash.

Jamie 22:20

I mean, I wasn't gonna say anything.

Rebecca 22:21

I'm pretty sure. I'm just like, poor white trash that has money now. That's disconcerting.

Jamie 22:27

you do buy dressed up roadkill,

Rebecca 22:29

Literally, I literally buy dress up roadkill for fuck's sake. I buy rocks

Jamie 22:34

Yeah,

Rebecca 22:35

out here spending money on rocks.

Jamie 22:37

seriously like buying crystals. that was my favorite thing to do as a kid was like look through rocks and find like crystals and special rocks and stuff

Rebecca 22:45

Oh, when you would like when you were on vacation and they had those bins of

Jamie 22:49

Oh yeah, in the little bags.

Rebecca 22:52

were Yes.

Jamie 22:53

Little drawstring, velvet bags or whatever.

Rebecca 22:56

Yeah.

Jamie 22:57

Yeah. Gift shop at Gettysburg or whatever. Always had that. Get that and some rock candy, some jelly beans,

Rebecca 23:05

Jelly beans and rocks.

Jamie 23:07

Wow. So this is just childhood trauma then, is what we're interesting.

Rebecca 23:12

Okay. No, that you just made, I know you're joking, but I think there literally is for a lot of people, trauma around money. I really

Jamie 23:19

Oh yeah. I was laughing but I wasn't joking.

Rebecca 23:22

You're right. Like people have a lot of, either it's like hearing your parents fight about money or not having enough as a kid or like getting made fun of because you didn't, like you were the, didn't have enough money,

Jamie 23:32

You didn't wear the cool expensive shoes from I remember getting to shop at Target once in a while, and that was like

Rebecca 23:40

That was big Spending Target

Jamie 23:42

Oh my God. That was a luxury.

Rebecca 23:45

Target clothes were very,

Jamie 23:48

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca 23:49

yep.

Jamie 23:49

Thrift store and K-Mart a lot.

Rebecca 23:52

shopping at Old Navy for the first time and I was like, I have made it. I've made it. I have made it. Anyway, that's all I have to say about money for now, and if you would love to join the conversation, maybe we can do part three. Just send us an email.

Jamie 24:04

At podcast@burnoutcollective.com. Email us if you would like to be a guest about anything, but also if you're listening to this episode about money and debt and you are face palming into your desk or your hands. And you have something to say.

Rebecca 24:18

Please send us. We will love to hear from you.

Jamie 24:20

See you next week

Rebecca 24:22

goodbye

Jamie 24:23

Bye.