Jamie: 0:00

first of all, I grabbed this because, whatever, this is kind of dorky, but, um, I got a new notebook to fix my life, Rebecca.

0:10

I am Jamie. And I'm Rebecca. Welcome to the Burnout Collective.

Jamie: 0:18

Hello.

Rebecca: 0:20

Hello, happy Thursday.

Jamie: 0:22

Welcome back. happy Thursday. Happy Podcast Day. Thank you for being here. It's been a week, which is my favorite way to start our podcast, Rebecca.

Rebecca: 0:34

especially has been a

Jamie: 0:35

been a week, today has been its own week. I wasn't sure what we were gonna talk about, and then we just kind of thought maybe we should talk about like, when you can't even, like, when you can't even, you know what I mean? You're so depressed, stressed, sick. Maybe you're, you've been sick for a long time. Maybe it's other mental health conditions that you're struggling with. maybe it's just overwhelm and burnout, but you, yeah. Burnt out. Burnt out perhaps. but it's hard to do basic things like. I'll be the first to say that. Like, when I'm really depressed, it's horrible and I hate it, but the first thing to go is like brushing my teeth. I will like drop that. and that's something that's hard. Like it's hard to do basic things. Sometimes shower, brush your teeth. Sometimes it's hard to just take the trash out or clean your dishes from the day, the week, the month, you know, depending on where you're at. And I think I've kind of been in that space for a long time. I know Rebecca and I have both been there. What are some things that go, when you're really depressed or overwhelmed, what are some things you stop doing to care for yourself?

Rebecca: 1:44

See, I was just thinking about that, and it was like, it's kind of like having a gun to your head when you have a kid in the house and it's like you're in the hole, but also you kind of, you still have to get up and you still have to make them lunch, and you still have to wake them up and get'em off to school. And it's like, and I don't mean that in like a martyring type of way. I just mean it in

Jamie: 2:05

Yeah.

Rebecca: 2:06

someone's depending on you. So not only are you in the hole, but then you're having to push through, which doesn't make it better.

Jamie: 2:16

No,

Rebecca: 2:17

There's no time to like,

Jamie: 2:18

that can make it

Rebecca: 2:19

you know. Exactly. It's, there's, so it's just, it's like a layer, a layer, a layer of just feeling like you're, you're emptying out everything and not getting a chance to kind of regenerate.

Jamie: 2:31

but what things, so like, I know it's not the same, but you know, my favorite thing is being like, kids are like having a cat. It's the same thing. Parents. it's like I still care for my cats. Of course. And I know that's completely different, but What about you? What

Rebecca: 2:47

I would say probably like eating. I think eating goes out and it's like, I just don't want to, just any

Jamie: 2:55

Like social interaction more, more than

Rebecca: 2:57

Oh, ab abso absolutely not. Ab not even that. No.

Jamie: 3:02

No, I'm saying like, does that go more do you avoid

Rebecca: 3:06

Oh, yeah. Oh, I avoid everybody

Jamie: 3:09

would?

Rebecca: 3:09

100%. I avoid everybody. I, I spend a lot of time like in the couch corner, like if I'm in the hole, it's just in the couch corner and like I have enough energy to. Just read a book or use

Jamie: 3:21

Play a mindless game or,

Rebecca: 3:24

yeah. Just nothing that requires extensive mental loads. Cooking, which I guess goes with eating, but like cooking feels cooking, so like basic house maintenance stuff feels super overwhelming. Like cooking or, oh my God, I have to clean the kitchen or unload the dishwasher. That's the stuff that it feels like insurmountable, weirdly, even though, you know, it's just something that you can do

Jamie: 3:46

mm-hmm. Sometimes it's even something that like, you can do quickly, but it's I can't, like we even talked about, there are times where you can't even get outta bed because of what's going on in your life or in your head.

Rebecca: 4:00

You have to psych yourself up to do, like, I do a lot of like, okay, here we go. There's a lot of inner narrative of, okay, um, we're gonna go do this. And like, having to like gather up the energy to, to do something even when you, again, you've done it a million times before,

Jamie: 4:16

And then you're also trying to find like, yeah, you're trying to find like the motivation, like to do those things. and sometimes it just doesn't come.

Rebecca: 4:24

Yeah. And also, if you are, currently off insurance and unemployed and you don't have like medication available consistently because doctors are fucking expensive,

Jamie: 4:36

And meds are

Rebecca: 4:36

then I. So if you're out of them or if you don't have access to them, like that makes it a million times worse because not only are you like, you're not even getting that, that, um, I was gonna say legal meth, but that's not, you're not even getting like that,

Jamie: 4:52

say legal meth. You can say legal meth.

Rebecca: 4:54

that like that artificial boost from medication that you would do, you know what I mean? Like, you're not even getting that. So you're having to make your own serotonin and that's not happening.

Jamie: 5:04

No, it is not. Yeah, I told Rebecca not all of my meds, but there have been some meds that I've been off of for a couple weeks, maybe a little more than a couple weeks. but yesterday I just, I think my doctor, my PCP got, uh, an alert for like to fill a prescription for me and then he, like, he looked and said, oh, I haven't seen Jamie in like a year and a half. I'm gonna have to, gonna have to see her to fill this. And it was actually perfect timing because right now I'm trying to ditch my psychiatrist because being unemployed without insurance, um, that's expensive. hi Josh. Welcome in. You almost made me think you were my dad again though. Hi dad. and yeah, I just, it was perfect timing'cause I wanted to, I, sorry, I lost the train of thought. It was perfect timing because I wanted to ditch my psychiatrist'cause he's too expensive and I know that, like, I'm on a DHD meds, so those have to be, they're like legally, like my doctor still has to see me or have an appointment with me every three months to continue that prescription. But other than that I'm just like, here are all the meds I'm taking. I. At one point, my PCP did manage all of my medications anyway, so like he, he's familiar with what I take because it hasn't changed too much. and I was so anxious, like I didn't wanna, I knew I had to go to the appointment and I actually like my doctor, this was the first time in forever. it took me like 35 years to find a doctor that I, I like, and that I feel is supporting me and looking out for the best for me. so thank you, drew. If you're listening to this, I'm just kidding. He's not. but yeah, I was so anxious about it. And then I went in and it was, I mean, it was like a 20, 25 minute visit, but, you know, he just like checked me out, made sure, you know, like did a little like physical exam, made sure I was okay, like physically, and I was healthy. Everything checks out, everything's good. always a load off my mind. and then we just talked meds and got that straightened out and then I was able to immediately go and pick up all the medications that I've been out of. And today's really the first day that I started taking all my meds again. And it's just a world of difference. And it's so sad because like that shit's so expensive, but it's you need it to function or I do.

Rebecca: 7:29

right. And the like. And when you're in the hole having to get up and go out and then interact and do more activities, like going to a secondary location,

Jamie: 7:42

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca: 7:43

it's, I. It would just drain me for the rest of the

Jamie: 7:46

That's why I bought lipstick'cause I was at CVS, so I also like got myself a little treat, a special treat for a special little guy.

Rebecca: 7:53

For a special day. Yeah.

Jamie: 7:55

Yeah, I like to, I don't know if you do this because I hate going out into the world and dealing with people and I'm at home all the time. I'll like bundle all of my out, have to go out in the world tasks. So like even if I didn't have to like also go get meds, like I would typically do, like I'm gonna go to the doctor, then I'm gonna go like pick up a coffee for myself as a treat, and like then I'll go get my meds and then I'll go, to the grocery store and pick up a few groceries. So then I feel like, okay, I've accomplished a lot, like I've gotten done what I need to get done and I've done it all in a day. But sometimes even just doing like one thing, like even just going to the doctor that day is don't know, you're like, Ugh, I went out. Like you were gone for like an hour and you're like, I went out, I did things. I'm done.

Rebecca: 8:48

Yeah. And then having to show up at work, and I'm not saying acting like everything's fine, but having to show up in work and having to produce things and have output and to have to sit in meetings and to have to function.

Jamie: 9:04

Function for your kid, function for your family, function for your work, your boss, your friends, even sometimes.

Rebecca: 9:12

So then you, yeah, you just, you, you feel like at the end of the day there's nothing else, what have you found, I mean, I know you said you started your meds again, but like what have you been finding that has been helping you kind of get back out of it or kind of get back?

Jamie: 9:27

Yeah. So I haven't found a full-time role, but I have started freelancing. I'm actually. Working not directly with Rebecca, but I'm working at Rebecca's work. oh, am I allowed? Maybe I'm not allowed to say that. Oops. It's sad. we'll add it to the show notes. Just kidding. but listen, we were so excited to talk to each other on Slack again. I was like, I couldn't wait to like, pick the gift that I was gonna send her for, like being on Slack for the first time and it was just such a thing. High five. Jobber. Thanks, pat. Hi Pat. Welcome in. but yeah, I think that because I felt thrown into chaos and I know it's like, oh, like blur me. Like I haven't done any work. Hi paper, welcome. I haven't done any work. Or like, I've been laid off for six months and now I ha finally have work to do. It's like, shut up and just do the work, which I am. But it's been more of a struggle than I thought. And so it's kind of made me rethink. Just kind of,'cause I haven't been on a schedule. I've literally, you know, this, like, I've been able to do whatever the fuck I want and get up whenever I want. And, still applying for jobs, still working on the podcast and doing some like, other freelance work. But for the most part, I didn't really have many, like deadlines or schedules or things I had to do, that week. So everything kept getting put off. And so working again and getting a little overwhelmed, like my first week has made me say like, okay, now you, now you know what to do. Like, you know, you have to schedule your time better and have these task lists so you like, make sure you're getting stuff done for your clients. And, and just that has like caused me to kind of look at like even my home and like personal life in that way and. This is like, I don't wanna get, I don't wanna get too, I'm like getting teary. you told me this might happen. I think it's going on like two years now that I've had like, depression apartment. I don't think it's depression apartment anymore. but I just, I have a lot of stuff. It's like things are clean, but I just have too much shit. Like you guys can, see in my background, like how much shit I have just like, piled up in my office, which is like my junk room right now. Like, I don't wanna live like that. Like I wanna have a clean desk and like feel good when I have to sit down and do work or, record the podcast. And even just like gaming when I'm trying to like, relax and unwind at the end of the day. And so it's just gone on way too long. But I just hadn't been at a point where I could get out of it because honestly, it was like my grandpa died. work became so overwhelming and awful, and there was like a little bit of moral injury there. yes, marina, come, are you gonna come here and help me declutter my apartment? I would love that. Please come visit, come stay with me. but it's just, yeah. Anyway, so work was stressful. Then I got laid off, and then that was like, I was like, all right, this is my chance and I'm gonna get rid of everything and go through my entire wardrobe and pair everything down. I've done a little bit of that. But I haven't done a lot of that at all. And so I've just been starting to do more of that. Like I did, not that anyone can notice but me. But I did go through, I don't know, like a quarter of my office and like get rid of things and honestly just throw out trash and like some boxes that were in here just like lying around, from stuff I unboxed and put together and then just left the box there. yeah.

Rebecca: 13:08

See, this is where it's like, I feel like I am very lucky to have a second person in the household with me because

Jamie: 13:16

True. Yeah.

Rebecca: 13:17

I have somebody who takes out the boxes and does the recycling.

Jamie: 13:22

Send them over.

Rebecca: 13:22

so I, I can't, I'm just saying like, I can't imagine how hard, like, to have to be in charge of all the things.'cause that's a diff like, that's a difference. You are in charge of all the things, and we talked about this before. You have to be in charge of everything. And I, I have someone who's picking up the slack when I drop the ball

Jamie: 13:41

Yeah.

Rebecca: 13:42

and it's just, there's that, it's not fair, but it's just like there's, there should be, I don't know. There's just having to be in charge of everything all the time has to be draining.

Jamie: 13:53

yeah, it is. There were times like, I remember I was like joking, but not joking, where I would like tell you guys my friends, I would just be like, all right. I was single at the time and I was like, all right, time for me to get a partner. I need someone to do my dishes. Like, this is ridiculous. I need someone to go with me on Saturday to run errands like. And that's the thing too, is like all of my friends, oh, hi Liz. Well, well, well, Liz, yes. Look at her. Oh, welcome, Liz. If you guys haven't listened to Liz's episode, I believe it's 28, episode 28, please go listen to it. Liz is so amazing. We love you

Rebecca: 14:32

Yes.

Jamie: 14:33

anyway. but yeah, I like it was half a joke, but honestly it was like, yeah, that is nice. It's like at the same time we've talked about kind of like the give and take of both situations of like having a family, having kids, or being alone and living alone. and I think the difference, like they're both very difficult and I think, like for me, right, it's, I don't have another person to help me and like you said, pick up the slack, but then for you it's like there's a lot more to do. Then there's also a child or children in other people's cases like that depend on you.

Rebecca: 15:10

Yeah, how can, how can I be in charge of somebody?

Jamie: 15:12

yeah, I know like when I'm like my worst and I'm in like my darkest depression hole, I'm really just the first thing is just like, take care of the cats, make sure that cats are fed and watered and they take their meds and they're okay. And they're happy. And they're safe, and they have a clean place to poop, I'm like secondary. And that's kind of what happened too with like my plants. Like I had, I had a 50 some plant collection in my apartment.

Rebecca: 15:41

I don't think you're gonna talk about your plans. This is the heartbreaking part that like bums me out on. So.

Jamie: 15:46

me too. Me too. I spent so much time and money on these plants and like. I love plants and I loved it, but I was so depressed that it just started with I can't do this today. Also, it's like, motherfucker don't get 50 plants. What are you doing? Like you are giving yourself a whole other job to do. Let's take it small. And I haven't reached the point yet. I say like, people can laugh and, and joke about it, but I say that it's very traumatic. Like I actually haven't even been out on my balcony. I have a nice balcony. I haven't been out there'cause there's, there are still dead plants out there. All the dead plants in my apartment I've finally gotten rid of. But some of them were here for like a year'cause I just couldn't even address it'cause it was like so traumatic. Because this is the thing that was like a hobby and it made me happy and it was like this living thing that I was taking care of and it was so beautiful and I was just so interested in plants and. They were beautiful and I got rare plants and, so much joy surrounding that. And now there's like so much trauma, so I'm just waiting for, that's what we talk about, right? Baby steps. So like baby steps for me, like I couldn't even throw out my dead plants that were in my apartment. Friends would come over and say something about it. I'm looking at you, Rob. why do you have all these dead pla dead plants still in your apartment? And I like, I can laugh about it now, but it, it, it was so traumatic for me, I couldn't even touch'em. So the first step was throwing'em out and I can actually thank my mom for that.'cause when she was here last time, she said, why don't you let me throw out some of these plants? And I was like, well some of them I wanna keep this pod and I don't wanna throw it out'cause these are nice plastic pots. And so I just kind of gave her directions and she did it. And then I did a little more and we got'em all outta here. Thank you mom for kicking my butt. Hi manic.

Rebecca: 17:41

Well, I mean, it's like a, it's like a physical manifestation on the outside of how you're feeling on the inside.

Jamie: 17:47

Yeah, exactly. And like my whole apartment too. Like I think the first time, manic came to my apartment, I was just like so horrified because I'm like, it just kind of feels like this isn't me, this is my mental illness. or this, not, not even necessarily that I'm really struggling with mental illness at the time, but this is because I was in a really dark place for a long time. so yeah, I mean, it is very emotional, but I guess like, that's why I wanted to talk about this because. I think everybody has maybe like their little like secret like shame and they feel ashamed about it. and they don't want to talk about it. Or they don't even tell their friends or let their friends know that this thing got so bad or, I dunno, like left that dish in the sink too long and it got moldy. it didn't, I don't know. I'm just trying to think of like little things that just go to the wayside and then grow. And anyway, you're not alone. It happens. And if you have people around you that love you and support you, they'll help you. And sometimes, sometimes people don't know what to do and sometimes people don't know you need help. So sometimes it's good to ask for help.

Rebecca: 19:04

Do you find that it's coming like in waves or do you find it's like you get out of it and then you kind of, not relapse, it's not the right word, but like have two steps back, or is it just a continuous momentum forward? I.

Jamie: 19:19

I think it depends. I think that I was getting some momentum like months and months ago, but it kind of kept going back. So I would do something and feel really good about it and feel like accomplished. And I'll tell you what, it helps that I'm in a long distance relationship and my partner comes to visit and come, comes to my apartment every like three months. Both of us have talked about that. Even it's like we should, should just keep visiting each other and seeing each other because like then we'll both keep up with tasks and not, you know, be. Behind on everything. so that's helped, that's helped with like, keeping my apartment clean. It's just I have to get rid of stuff at this point. And yeah. I don't even know if I answered

Rebecca: 20:04

had a break. No, I've had to like, actually, I think I showed you like I have a day planner. I've had to break down the stuff that just feels like too much. I've just, because you look at something, and I call it the giving a mouse a cookie, where it's just like, well, if you give a mouse a cookie, he needs a cup of milk and then blah, blah, blah. Pretty soon you're like, well, everything needs to be redone. So I've just started like breaking it up into like one a day, and then you only do that one thing. And that sounds so stupid and like a no shit thing. But it takes the, not the shame, but like, well, yeah, I guess the shame or the stress out of it. So then it's like, well, I have done it. And then when I see everything else that I'm like, Ugh, I wanna organize this or redo this, it's like, well, I'm getting to it, but not right now. But like it will happen. And so, and I think you called it, what did your therapist call it? The

Jamie: 20:56

I don't remember.

Rebecca: 20:57

should've shoulding or,

Jamie: 20:59

Oh, shitting all over yourself.

Rebecca: 21:02

Shoulding all over yourself. Like I should have. Yeah.

Jamie: 21:05

she was like, oh, you're shitting all over yourself. She's like, it's what our US therapists call shitting all over yourself. And I was like, shitting all over myself. That's what therapists call. She's like, no, Jamie should. Yeah. You're just like, I should do this. I should do this. I'm like, that felt, first of all, I grabbed this because, whatever, this is kind of dorky, but, um, I got a new notebook to fix my life, Rebecca.

Rebecca: 21:27

fuck.

Jamie: 21:28

and so I started,

Rebecca: 21:29

in it Okay, good.

Jamie: 21:30

I have, and so this one's kind of like more like a guided, so it does have like sections, but it has like tasks and stuff. I'm like, yeah. So I thought that was funny because we're always talking

Rebecca: 21:41

Yeah. But when you, when you brought up shoulding all over yourself, I realized like that's what I've been doing is'cause I didn't know, I don't know, like that's what it was, but it was like instead of being like, oh man, it's like, okay, well I will. And like it's in the plan. And so that, that takes away sort of that like that should've

Jamie: 21:58

Yeah.

Rebecca: 21:59

feeling.

Jamie: 22:00

Yeah. I wish I had it. I would like take pictures of it. I might have pictures of it, but when I was at my old apartment, I didn't know that I would be moving. at the time I was like talking with a partner about moving in, I had looked around my apartment and I was like, I have too much stuff. Like, especially if I'm gonna live with somebody, right. I. I mapped out this whole list and I broke my apartment up into not just rooms, but like sections of rooms. And that's exactly what I did, what you said you're doing. So like I put, let's say I put bedroom, but then it had like six, seven things on that list. And it was like small dresser, little dresser, right half of closet. Like I really broke it down as like, do this or do what's on the floor of the closet, go through the stuff that's under your bed. And all of those were separate. And I plotted it out so that I would,'cause I wanted to have it done by a certain month just because I thought like we might be considering moving in. And I was like, oh, it would be such a great start. And so I plotted it out, added up all the, like subtasks, and then divided them by the days. And I was like, okay, like in three months I'm gonna do all this. And I did it. And it felt so good, and I, like, I stuck with it. I don't know how I had the motivation then, but I guess I was in a good place and, functioning executively,

Rebecca: 23:22

Yeah. And it sounds so cliche, like I broke it up into little, like, big tasks and little tasks. But the other thing I was thinking that just came to me is that there's a level of guilt too that comes with, if I leave a mess on the counter or something, it's like I'm forcing two other people to deal with it. And it's like they don't deserve that. They don't like, why am I doing that to them? And that, so there's a whole like extra layer of guilt

Jamie: 23:46

I'm fine doing that shit to myself apparently.

Rebecca: 23:50

but do you know what I mean? So it's just like, so then there's like guilt and stress on like, and so that's why the little stuff has helped a lot because it's like, okay, we're going to get it done. we'll finish it. yeah, but it's just.

Jamie: 24:05

maybe we will do our spring cleaning episode sometime soon. Who knows? I think I

Rebecca: 24:09

yeah, I mean, I I went through my closet. My closet was just honestly a bunch of stuff that I, when we moved, I was just like, I can't fucking deal with this. And then it was, what, three years later, I was like, well, I guess I gotta deal with

Jamie: 24:22

Now I feel like I have

Rebecca: 24:23

then I,

Jamie: 24:23

Yeah. Than when I moved. Gone.

Rebecca: 24:25

well, I was, and then I just started doing it. And then I was like, okay, well this isn't that bad. And then I just kept doing it. I was like, oh, okay. And then I was done, because before I would start and I would just be, I would just freeze because there was just too much to do and I didn't know where to start. And I didn't know what to do.'cause I'd be like, well, I have to do the closet and then the bathroom, and then this, and this and this. And I just wouldn't, I just couldn't pick a, pick anything to start with. But just having that one little thing, I know when it starts and I know when it's done.

Jamie: 24:54

Yeah.

Rebecca: 24:54

And so I don't, I don't know what that, it's like time blindness, but for tasks,

Jamie: 24:59

Mm-hmm. And I feel like you can even do I don't know, like my therapist had told me and I did it for a little bit, but then I stopped. But I have have been doing it again. It's the doom piles, right? We

Rebecca: 25:13

see I did try it and those pissed me

Jamie: 25:16

Oh, so like

Rebecca: 25:18

I tried it.

Jamie: 25:18

pile a day or something, or a week.

Rebecca: 25:21

Oh, break. oh, oh. So I was doing the thing where I was just putting everything in the bin to like declutter, but then I would have like a fucking bin and I, it made me so mad'cause I'm like trying to find that thing. So I did try that. But undoing the doom piles is very satisfying.

Jamie: 25:37

because it's like I, I think when Manic was here, my partner was here, he was actually like, I like that we both have our own little, like, organized piles of like chaos, but like they're in like this organized fashion, like for us. And it's like, yeah. But I was talking to my therapist about it and she's like, just pick a pile a day. It can be the smallest pile. Like just be like, oh, there's a pile of mail that's probably all trash on my kitchen table. I'm gonna go through that today and take care of it. And so it's just stuff like that. And again, yeah, we know this isn't stuff that nobody's ever heard, but we've talked about it here and there, but we haven't really talked about it and focused on it at length. And it's just been like. Yeah, just been top of mind and I have noticed that like now I have some work and that's been great. And it is kind of like pushing me to get more structure other places and I would say motivating me a little bit, but I could still use some more motivation.

Rebecca: 26:40

like I said, it's only my professional reputation.

Jamie: 26:42

Yeah. See, and there's that stress.

Rebecca: 26:44

I'm

Jamie: 26:44

like I think I told someone that it might've been my parents. I was like, and I don't wanna like embarrass Rebecca in front of her work colleagues.

Rebecca: 26:54

My work colleagues every, that was nice. So like, you were like, Hey guys, and literally like three other people knew who you were, which was really I know you don't know everyone, but it was, it was just nice that you got to go to a place where like people already knew you.

Jamie: 27:04

Yeah. No, it is nice. And like some of the writers too, so that's been great. I,

Rebecca: 27:09

It, I went to my, oh sorry. Go ahead.

Jamie: 27:11

I was just gonna, we missed some stuff in chat. I wanted to go back, but Go ahead.

Rebecca: 27:14

I would say I went to my friend's house, today and I was helping out and uh, she's one of the most together people I know. And I saw a male pile, and then I saw her basement. And I'm not saying, and this is not to be like tis tisk or, but it was just like, oh, she has a pile of laundry, so that's normal. And so the stuff that like I, I think I beat myself up for, I'm like, oh, it's not just me that does this. They're there who do have it together more than I do maybe who are still doing it because life is a fucking nightmare and everyone is busy and no one has time.

Jamie: 27:52

I think that's part of,

Rebecca: 27:54

Patriarchy and capitalism,

Jamie: 27:56

yes, always,

Rebecca: 27:57

Jess.

Jamie: 27:58

but also I. How we like grew up, I guess. I don't know about you, but, I love you, mom, but my mother and also my sibling, so my family that lives close by. They are,

Rebecca: 28:12

Fastidious.

Jamie: 28:13

yeah. It's insane. And like we had to do chores as, as kids, but it did feel like, and just seeing, I don't know, growing up and even as an adult, like being there and watching my mom be like, people are coming over and see how stressed she was and like everything she did that it's like, nobody's gonna see that, but like it in her mind, you know? And

Rebecca: 28:38

I think it's generational though, right? Like didn't, if her parents were to come over.'cause I know if my grandpa came over to my mom's house and it was messy, he'd say something. So it's like you're judged on the house. You keep, but our generation is like, we love you. If you have stuff in your floor, we don't

Jamie: 28:51

I guess my mom has to be a guest now because I don't, I don't know about that dynamic, so I'll have to ask what that's like. But yeah, I

Rebecca: 29:00

your house is a reflection of who you like. This is a reflection of who you are and

Jamie: 29:05

And like, but I guess that's what I'm trying to say is like, I think that's the problem. I'm not saying like everybody should just never clean their house and like, have all the clutter you want and make it uncomfortable for people. Don't do that, but like the way we have to.'cause I would never like, okay, like being at your friend's house today, right? you saw that and you were like, oh, cause you kind of thought she was the, super type A OCD,

Rebecca: 29:30

And she's, and she is. That's the thing. She is. But it's just like okay, so this is just a

Jamie: 29:35

comforting. Yeah. It's like comforting knowing that like other people. Do that too. And that that's normal and natural. And whether the cleanliness of your house is morally neutral to some extent. and it's just, I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to say. I just, I think we're so stuck on making things perfect, or some of us, I think other people maybe have it under control. When I had an auntie who would iron the towels spotless, iron the towels,

Rebecca: 30:11

See, when I met Rob, Rob had it all under control, but he also didn't have furniture

Jamie: 30:16

I thought you were gonna say friends. Sorry,

Rebecca: 30:18

well that too, but he had like, he had like, a single guy covers, it was like a plate. Handicap. And so he had a lot less things, but it was a spotless apartment, but it was also a studio apartment and very small. And I think one of the things is, I think our generation has been taught, like as we move out through our careers, our houses are supposed to grow with us. and the amount of stuff we have is supposed to grow with us as our salaries increase, as our careers increase, except actually it just becomes untenable and unmanageable.

Jamie: 30:49

Well, and also it's I'm I'm never gonna own a house. Like that's how I feel. I'm like, I'm never gonna own a house. It's just not gonna happen. and I know, never say never, but I just don't, don't see it happening right now or anytime in the future. But things could change. But it's like a lot of us, like don't even own houses and like can't. And it's

Rebecca: 31:07

Right.

Jamie: 31:07

that's what they expect. I think that's what they expect. You know, like, oh, well you have. This much stuff and you're this age now and you're this many years into your career, like you should have a house and then all that stuff is spread out. So it's not all like contained in a single room like Jamie's office.

Rebecca: 31:26

Yeah, and that's a really good point.'cause again, the boomers have all the houses and they made it impossible for anyone else.

Jamie: 31:35

How boomers have ruined everything episode

Rebecca: 31:40

now, we're depressed

Jamie: 31:41

I know. Now we're depressed again. I do wanna go back though'cause I think people had some good things to say. Torah said this is motivating me to start cleaning. I'm gonna do a little section now. That's awesome. paper said I've been trying to learn not to see everything is productivity. When some, I'm trying to learn. Not to see everything as productivity, when sometimes even getting out of bed has been tough sometimes. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like sometimes you're in a deep dark hole, you're in a funk, and you haven't been able to get outta bed. So the day that you do get outta bed, like that's a win. And it doesn't feel like it, but it really is. Hey, Shep. Um, breaking it down into small tasks is such a good hack with a DHD. Yeah. Torah. Agree. I thought Liz said something. I must have missed it. Oh, here we

Rebecca: 32:30

Liz doesn't understand why people give you hard to keep plants when someone dies. Like it's impossible, like orchids. Those are crazy hard to take to care for.

Jamie: 32:39

Rebecca. See when people die, Rebecca sends me succulents. Those are great. I have. I do have two succulents that are alive right now from you. Well, one of'em is like one fifth alive. I will have to say. But that was from when my grandpa died, so my birthday succulent, which is when my thirties died, is still very much alive.

Rebecca: 33:00

Yeah. I either send food or succulents.'cause

Jamie: 33:03

Yeah. Cheesecake and succulents. I think we're done here. Cheesecake and suc, succulents. I send condolence snacks. Yeah, marina sends snacks too. It's great.

Rebecca: 33:16

and it's, this is where I become a communist, but it's the whole, it takes a village to raise a child. But I also think. Just we as people need villages, which we don't have. We're so spread apart. We don't have people nearby. It's so hard to ask for help. And communal living, again, I know it sounds super hippy dippy and super communist, but that whole village aspect is completely gone. And now it's just capitalism based and it's my house, my stuff.

Jamie: 33:44

Yeah,

Rebecca: 33:45

and so people who need the help or need that village don't have access to it at all.

Jamie: 33:51

to says, not to brag, but I just cleaned my hallway doom pile and my dresser, I've been putting it off for ages and it only took me 15 minutes. I, that happens.

Rebecca: 33:59

It's like, It's like, fuck, I don't wanna do it. I don't wanna do it. And then you do it like, well, I could have done that a long time ago.

Jamie: 34:06

I'll do the timer thing sometimes too, or I'll be like, I don't know where to start, and so I'll just like set a timer for, sometimes it's. 15 minutes. Sometimes it's 30, sometimes it's an hour, like, depending on how I'm feeling. But I'll just set a timer for like 20 minutes and just say, just do stuff in the kitchen. Like you have a lot of things to do in the kitchen. Just start doing things. So I'll do some dishes. Maybe I'm cleaning out the fridge and throwing out like old food that I should have thrown out and wiping down counters. And then I just do it for, the 20 minutes. And once it's up, I always tell myself like, if you feel good to keep going and want to, then you can keep going. But once it's up, you can be like, you know what, I'm done. I did my 15, 20 minutes. I'm done. Good morning. Q Morning.

Rebecca: 34:50

there was a while there where it was like. I just felt like shit all the time and I just couldn't have the energy. But then I was like, well, am I depressed? I mean, the world's bad, but I don't feel super depressed. So it was, anyway, long story, long. It's nice finding out that you have a chronic illness

Jamie: 35:06

Yeah.

Rebecca: 35:07

because I would just keep beating myself up and I'm like, I don't, what, what is going on? I'm exhausted. It's hard to, it's hard to move. It's hard to do everything. so it's really hard to not internalize, like when you're unable to do something or you just don't have the energy or you put something off.'cause you simply cannot

Jamie: 35:24

or if you're,

Rebecca: 35:25

and, and it's hard.

Jamie: 35:26

or if you're like dealing with pain.'cause like I know you deal with pain too, and we talk about like invisible illnesses and that can make things a lot harder too. Like, that can make things like where you can't do them, where you have to get help to do some things, you know? In some cases,

Rebecca: 35:43

Exactly. So like that's, but I think the first instinct though is not to be like, well, maybe it's an illness. It's just like, well, I'm obviously a sloppy piece of shit who can't get off the couch and is just gross and

Jamie: 35:55

Everyone has their shit together. But me that's like, yeah, that's always playing in my head.

Rebecca: 36:01

When actually it's well, maybe there's something else. But you never think

Jamie: 36:04

When actually it's like, hang on, do you really think these other people have their shit together? You know, they don't have their shit together. Just

Rebecca: 36:09

It's not a, but it's like, it's not a character defect when actually you never consider that. It's all, it's clearly, it just must be me.

Jamie: 36:16

Yeah.

Rebecca: 36:17

I don't know.

Jamie: 36:18

Shep said it's celebrating the things we have done, taking the actual time to highlight our accomplishments. Regardless of size, it's everything for a mental health and creating a safe space inside ourselves. Chronic pain and illness are life changing. I can relate very much. We deserve to give ourselves kindness because we are our harshest critic. Yeah. And it, yeah.

Rebecca: 36:39

I will say having the kid, you can make'em do chores.

Jamie: 36:43

yeah. Oh, that is good. Yeah.

Rebecca: 36:45

I'm just gonna say it.

Jamie: 36:46

always yelling at the cats like, I'm like, you don't do anything. Like

Rebecca: 36:50

I know, but it's like you fucking live here. You can go

Jamie: 36:52

Bare handed a piece of dried poop from your butt and you like, can't even like, take out your own litter, please. Come on.

Rebecca: 37:01

God no, I know, but it's like once your kids are old enough to like start contributing to the house, it's like, oh. And that's the other thing. I think people just take it on themselves.'cause you, again, you feel like that responsibility, but it's like, oh, there are other people who live here and one of them's a child and she's gotta learn how to do it and she can go do this. Not

Jamie: 37:19

But then there's also the,

Rebecca: 37:21

pretty great.

Jamie: 37:22

yeah, but then there's also, let's teach, you know, let's teach her to, know how to do these things and know how to like the basics to take care of herself or take care of her living space. But it's also like, but I also don't wanna like pass on my trauma that I have about cleaning or anything. I mean, it could not just be cleaning, from my parents to, yeah. do you think about that?

Rebecca: 37:47

Go get the remote. No, she would always meet me, go get the remote for her. And I hated her so much for it. And now I make Emily do it all the time. Go, go get, can you go get Emily the rope? Just gimme the remote, please.

Jamie: 37:58

but that's not

Rebecca: 37:59

And now I know why

Jamie: 38:01

She's gonna, she's gonna start a podcast in like 20 years and it'll be like, oh, my mom always made me get the remote for her. Like, why couldn't she just get the remote?

Rebecca: 38:10

it's really because you're being a shithead and you're like, now I'm just gonna make it hard for you. But, um, but really though, like teaching her how to dust and teaching her how to clean and. I think I mentioned before, like we do get our house cleaned every other week, but she has to pick up her stuff first and she has to learn how to do this. And so, I don't know, those are skills that she needs soon. Like in five years, if she goes to college and lives in a dorm, you know, like she's gonna have to learn how to pee. So, but it's hard when you're not good at it or it's hard when they've inherited your odd HDA hundred percent. Well, I mean, really though, in the olden days, that's why they had chil, that's why they had so many children, because a lot of'em lived on farms or that type of thing. And so they. Rob hasn't tried telling him to grab me a beer from the fridge yet, but I bet you she would.

Jamie: 39:21

I swear. I swear he did that even when we were on vacation, Rob, when we were all on family vacation, I'm pretty sure.

Rebecca: 39:29

My mom taught her how to open a beer. She's, oh, she's there now visiting and my mom taught her how to use the beer opener, so that'll be a fun surprise when she comes home. I know,

Jamie: 39:38

like how you're like the beer opener, Rob. You have her trained

Rebecca: 39:41

but No, but like, they would have farms and, and they, the kids worked the farms like they children were not children to have children were

Jamie: 39:48

would like, sometimes they'd like pull'em outta school. They'd be like, you're not gonna go to, you're not gonna get educated anymore. We need you to get up at four in the morning and to work until 5:00 PM

Rebecca: 40:00

They were employees and you had a lot,'cause likely one of'em was gonna get run over with the tractor a horse or whatever they

Jamie: 40:07

need you to know how to do this so that when little Timmy dies. so that when I accidentally run over Timmy with the well.

Rebecca: 40:16

Yeah, my least favorite.

Jamie: 40:19

No, I'm surprised. I would like immediately when em gets home, that's like the first thing you should do. gimme a beer.

Rebecca: 40:26

I have to ask, and you don't have to answer, but like, do you also find it coincides with like changes in your menstrual cycle too?

Jamie: 40:32

Oh yeah.

Rebecca: 40:33

especially, yeah, so that makes things like even

Jamie: 40:37

Oh yeah. I have any little motivation I do happen to have. If I happen to have it like I lose, like it's gone.

Rebecca: 40:47

because you have PMDD, right? Like.

Jamie: 40:50

I always thought I did, but I was told no. They told me no,

Rebecca: 40:55

do you feel desperately depressed when you get your period, Jamie? Because I would vote yes. Then Was it a man, Jamie did a, did a male gynecologist tell you no?

Jamie: 41:03

no. It was actually a female guy now.

Rebecca: 41:05

Oh The period always is just like, well, now I hate everybody too on top of everything else. So that just makes it a million times worse.

Jamie: 41:13

Well, and then I think, I think I also get, I feel a lot more vulnerable. I feel like nobody likes feeling vulnerable. I try my best to not be in situations where I'm gonna be vulnerable, I think. But I mean, I guess I'm vulnerable on the podcast, for example, but I don't know where I was going with this. Feeling vulnerable.

Rebecca: 41:35

either. I'm not.

Jamie: 41:36

I just lost it. I'm sorry, what were we just talking about?

Rebecca: 41:39

okay. your gynecologist telling you that you don't have what you know you have'cause you know your body better than a anyone.

Jamie: 41:45

but before that, what were we saying before the PMDD

Rebecca: 41:50

It'll come, it'll come later.

Jamie: 41:52

Oh. Just being on my period. Yeah. That's like, I feel so incredibly vulnerable and frail and fragile when I'm on my period. And that's that. I think that's, I don't know, I guess the frail and fragile part are parts that I'm not used to feeling or that I don't like feel them, maybe I don't feel them publicly, I don't know. but that's almost like the worst part for me about being on my period is that I'm just like, Ugh. I'm sensitive to, I'm like extra sensitive. But

Rebecca: 42:29

So then you're probably even harder on yourself.

Jamie: 42:32

yeah. cause like sometimes even like, something will happen and I'll like cry over it and I'll be like, this is so stupid. Why are you crying over this? And I know exactly why I'm crying over it'cause I'm really emotional and on my period, and vulnerable. But yeah, it's easier said than done. But I think we just all need to let go of a lot of the things the patriarchy has taught us. just to let go of, I guess, of the shoulds, right? Of the should have done this and the, and like in the shame, we just need to let go of these. These rules that we all have in our heads of like how it has to be. And like my house has to be this before anyone can come over.

Rebecca: 43:19

Yeah.

Jamie: 43:20

there have been times when I was supposed to have somebody over and I was like, you know, this isn't gonna work out because of that, that happened over Christmas.'cause I was so depressed and I had a major depression house still at that time. And I thought I was gonna get it together because I love spending Christmas with my niece and nephew. It is like literally so magical with children. And, my fa my family, my sibling, my sister-in-law don't really decorate too much. I think they're gonna start to, now that Aquinas is older, but they don't really decorate much for Christmas. And I usually would go all out. I couldn't even put my tree up and I was like. This is awful. Like I don't want to invite them over here. So, and that sucks because then I feel like I missed out on, on that and I know it's okay. And of course my family's like, that's totally fine. Just come over here and, you know, we'll just have a relaxing day and open presence and play and it'll be fine. but that's like something I wanted to have, and it was like sad that I couldn't push through, you know, for like my niece and nephew to

Rebecca: 44:24

to counter that, like I, there was a couple years ago, I felt the exact same way at Christmas when you have like a kid right in your face and like, when are we gonna do this? When are we gonna do this? And you can't put it off anymore. And it's like, you can't explain to them like, Hey, I'm feeling because they don't understand

Jamie: 44:42

Christmas is canceled.

Rebecca: 44:43

exactly. They don't understand that. And so then it's like, okay, well I'm gonna fuck you up, and not have Christmas. I can't do that. So, but then the energy it takes to, and the. Mental gymnastics to actually do the thing, and then you're not having fun. And so then you feel guilty for not having fun like a bad parent. And it's just a whole other layer of

Jamie: 45:02

Or you do what you can, but then your kid's like,

Rebecca: 45:06

It's not enough.

Jamie: 45:07

where are the, oh, but you didn't put up the stockings, the special stockings. Or like, oh, you decorated the tree with just the store-bought ornaments. What about our special ornaments? Mom? You know, I feel like that was kind of me as a kid, and now I'm like, fuck, I'm sorry mom. But

Rebecca: 45:24

No, but it's true. That's exactly, I mean, that's exactly true. I'm like, that's happened. It's like, well, what about this, this, and this, and why aren't we putting lights up? And I'm like, oh my God, look, kid, I, I got this up for you. Like, I don't know what else you want from me right now. But again, it's like they don't have the capacity to understand.

Jamie: 45:41

But one day they will and they'll start a podcast about it.

Rebecca: 45:45

My mom didn't put up the Christmas decorations.

Jamie: 45:48

And she always made me get the remote for her

Rebecca: 45:51

the remote.

Jamie: 45:52

mom. They used, you used to have to get up and press buttons on the tv. You remember you're old.

Rebecca: 45:59

There is some stuff though. She'll be like, mom, we didn't put out Halloween decorations. And I'm like, tell your therapist about it in 15 years. I don't fucking care. there is some stuff that I've had to just be like, you know what kid, that's too

Jamie: 46:07

You're like, this is not

Rebecca: 46:08

Yeah,

Jamie: 46:09

Yeah.

Rebecca: 46:11

a hundred percent. And part of me wonders like, am I fucking her up with that? But then the other part of me is

Jamie: 46:16

Do you usually like involve her, like for like decorating for Christmas? Are you like, let's, maybe that's

Rebecca: 46:22

No, because I never did any of this before. I had a kid. So, I don't know if this is like an autism thing, but like, I don't have pictures on the walls of people. I don't, I never like did the decorations. Like it just, I was why, like we had a tree and stuff, but like, I didn't do it up. And now that we have a kid who likes that kind of thing, it was like, well, why didn't we decorate for Easter? I'm like, well, A,'cause we don't celebrate and B, but it's just like, they like that stuff. And so I'm like, I've never had to do this. I don't have, and now I don't have the energy for it.

Jamie: 46:55

you know what you should do?

Rebecca: 46:57

no, it's not, I'm not decorating.

Jamie: 46:59

No, but listen, she has like her like game room or whatever, or maybe, maybe it's a little corner in her room or somewhere

Rebecca: 47:07

Oh, that is a good idea. We could decorate her own room. Yeah.

Jamie: 47:11

don't tell me. No, I have good ideas, but No, but not even you. You can be like, okay, any holiday you wanna decorate for, you can decorate for, but. And you can even be like, we'll go together to wherever. I would normally say Target, but don't go to

Rebecca: 47:28

I was just gonna say, we can't fucking go to Target for their dollar decorations anymore, so I don't even know, but yes, agreed.

Jamie: 47:34

Target.

Rebecca: 47:35

And you can decorate your

Jamie: 47:36

yeah. And then you don't have to do it. You just like tell her to, and then you say, and then you say, and Dad will help you if you need to, like put something up high or, yeah. Yeah. And then you don't have to deal with it. But then like she's still happy and like, she also did it herself. I was gonna just suggest that you two, like make it

Rebecca: 47:55

That's a

Jamie: 47:56

thing. Listen to maybe some like heavy metal Christmas music and Decorate for Christmas with her. Have like a tradition or have a movie on your favorite Christmas movie and you're both doing it. So it's not just you being like, Ugh. And like she's part of it and she understands that it's like work and that it takes time to do these things,

Rebecca: 48:15

Yeah. I don't know how your mom was, but like, my mom goes balls deep with holiday decor. Like she has it in storage in spades, and there's like this guilt, like, I'm not doing holidays, quote unquote. Or I'm not doing, you know, and I'm, I'm, because she was like, grandma's house is magical. And then she comes to our house and she's like, well this is shit. Um, and so it's like I'm, I'm not giving this to my kid.'cause that's how it was when we were growing up too. And, and I can't give her that. And, I don't know. It's just one of those things that's like, I don't, at the end of the day, I just do not have the energy to put out decorations

Jamie: 48:50

Buy her one of those like little Christmas trees, but get it in like a color. Like her favorite color, like whether it's like pink or blue or silver or black and like that can be part of it. Maybe that's just it. Maybe she just has that tree that she can change.'cause they have, they have seasonal ornaments for like every season for Christmas trees, like little ones.

Rebecca: 49:11

Is true.

Jamie: 49:12

I love this idea. I'm excited about it.

Rebecca: 49:14

I'm too,

Jamie: 49:15

like, I'm so glad I'm like, I'm excited about it, but I'm not gonna be there for it, apparently. Yeah. Marina said thrift store, craft store for decorations. Yeah, that's a really good

Rebecca: 49:24

oh yeah. That's Smart.

Jamie: 49:25

I don't think I've really found good holiday decorations at the thrift store, but I guess they do put them out around that time. So maybe I'm just not looking around that time. Welcome in Rob Bebe.

Rebecca: 49:38

Home Goods. I'm sure there's something hideous at

Jamie: 49:40

Oh my God. Since I got laid off, I've been dying to go to Home Goods and I still, my bad. I told you that's the first thing my mom said to me when I was like, I got laid off today. My mom was like, when are you going to home Goods? Like, when are you gonna go shopping? cause it's like the stress shopping things are going wrong. So we go spend money and feel better about ourselves.

Rebecca: 50:02

The other thing I wanted to talk about with like the, I can't even, is the expectation that you have to show up to work and act like everything is fine and everyone else around you is acting like everyone is fine and everything is fine. Like, I remember the day they overturned Roe versus Wade and I had to go to a meeting and everyone was like, and I had just finished bawling my eyes out and I had to just be like, okay, here we're meeting and you men you mentioned moral injury. And

Jamie: 50:30

yeah.

Rebecca: 50:31

that's a huge part of it. like next week I have to go to work and pretend that they didn't just pass the most fucked up piece of legislation I've ever seen in such a long time. Um, I have to go to work and pretend they didn't say something about alligator Alcatraz. Like, I have to pretend this, which. crazy to me. It makes me feel crazy and depressed as fuck. And, uh, I don't know. That's, that does not help when that does not help when you're in the hole and you're trying to get out of it

Jamie: 51:00

it doesn't at all.

Rebecca: 51:01

cause you're already trying to be normal-ish, but then having to be normal-ish around other people is

Jamie: 51:07

Yeah.

Rebecca: 51:08

rushed.

Jamie: 51:09

Shook all this shit has shook me deeply too. Yeah, there's, there's just so I feel like it's been nonstop, definitely from before for sure, but like since the pandemic, it's been just awful. And I think, I think that's why it's like so much more important for managers to be good managers because I. I don't know, it's not many managers that I would feel comfortable with. Literally like none. Maybe like one in my career where I would feel comfortable saying like, I need a mental health day or this. Like I can't, I actually think, because I had a woman boss at the time for Roe v. Wade, I'm pretty sure that like we got in a meeting and she could just see it on all of our faces.'cause it was like, I think it was like two men and like 20 women, 15 women, something like that. And she was like, you know what, let's call it a day. It was like one, and she was like, let's call it a day. We all have a lot on our minds. And I'm like, yes. Like first of all, like that hardly ever happens where your boss is like, we're gonna call it a half day or go please go home. but even just being, I.

Rebecca: 52:27

remember when January 6th happened? Remember when January 6th happened? We were just like, are we gonna go act like, are we going to, are we gonna meetings and stuff? Like, are we just gonna pretend like nothing happened and just say, how are you doing? And be like, so good.

Jamie: 52:44

Yeah. Well, I think, yeah, like I wish I had better advice for navigating that, like in the workplace.'cause like that is such a problem. But again, like this doesn't necessarily help, but it's likely a guaranteed, honestly, that you're not the only one feeling that way because of the fucking fucked up world right now. and so like everybody's showing up and they're like, Ugh. I.

Rebecca: 53:10

When Trump was elected again, there was a message that went out on Slack, to all like the upper management that was like, people are probably gonna be having a really hard time today. And like, if they need to take the day, let them take the day. I've never seen that in my entire fucking life. Never ever. And it was like, okay. Although I do have to say we had a meeting the next day and we all got on the meeting and we spent half an hour showing each other our dogs. That was the entire meeting. And then one of the guys had like a dog with a dress up box and he showed us all of her outfits

Jamie: 53:46

A dress up box.

Rebecca: 53:48

and it was just like, we're not gonna pretend this is normal, but we all need to feel something, so let's just show each other dogs.

Jamie: 53:56

Oh my

Rebecca: 53:56

And that was it. That was the meeting. Just, yeah. yeah. I

Jamie: 54:00

I love that so

Rebecca: 54:01

It was nice to not have to pretend. It was just nice not to have to be like none of us could. and again, I know we internalize a lot of it and it's like it's a moral failing, but more and more it's just like, okay, there are other people out there who simply cannot as well.

Jamie: 54:17

Yeah.

Rebecca: 54:18

And here's the other thing. One of the guys I worked with, someone was shitting on something he did. And then like, how, he didn't do something right. And I was like, you know, his mom died, right? Like his mom just died.

Jamie: 54:29

Did they know?

Rebecca: 54:30

And he was like, no. He's like, oh. I was like, yeah, but do you know what

Jamie: 54:34

but it's also

Rebecca: 54:34

one thinks it, they're automatically thinking it's you immoral failing. It couldn't possibly be anything else. And that's why people don't feel safe or comfortable in the workplace showing that the things are affecting them.

Jamie: 54:49

Or talk, yeah. Talking about the things. Things that we're all taught. To be ashamed of, you know what I mean? But like, we all do them or most of us do them. And it's like, but you should be ashamed of that. And it's like, actually, maybe we should all talk about it. So, yeah. Ugh, my friend. What is this? Oh, Rob. Yeah. That meme. I'm gonna need that on the soundboard. They ask you how you're doing and you have to say you're fine, but you're not fine. my friends are definitely tired of my going crazy over everything happening in your country now. But I need them to understand it affects us too eventually. Yeah.

Rebecca: 55:22

Mm-hmm.

Jamie: 55:22

And Marina said, work got to the point for me when, anytime during the one-on-ones, my manager would ask, how's it going? And I'd just say It's going and then shut my mouth.

Rebecca: 55:34

I love, it's going, it's going is my favorite answer. It's going.

Jamie: 55:37

I would usually be like, I'm here.

Rebecca: 55:41

My favorite one is I'm reluctantly alive. I reluctantly exist today. That's ashes. That one is my favorite.

Jamie: 55:49

I'm refusing to be complicit.

Rebecca: 55:51

Yeah.

Jamie: 55:52

Yeah. I'm here for a dress up box. Yes.

Rebecca: 55:55

giving yourself grace, knowing that other people are out there feeling the same way

Jamie: 56:00

Yeah, like us. yeah, no, appreciate all the support too. And, uh, and everyone sharing their own stories of, trying to get outta that hole and get on top of things. And it's just so much. It is, this is a cliche, but it's so hard being an adult, you guys. I, I never could have imagined, Because all you want is to like grow up. So nobody has to tell you what to do, but then you're telling yourself what to do based on society's expectations. and then shaming yourself for it. Again, this is why we do coworking sessions in, uh, discord. So join the Discord and,

Rebecca: 56:41

that's true.

Jamie: 56:42

yeah.'cause that does help sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes I'm like, I can't. but yeah, music helps.

Rebecca: 56:48

Yeah, that's, that's the other thing. Some like, I know me personally, I am not someone who turns to people, like when I'm in the hole, it's like, I don't wanna talk,

Jamie: 56:56

don't

Rebecca: 56:56

I don't wanna talk to anyone. It's like, I can't, I just, I can't,

Jamie: 57:01

I'm trying to be better about it because I think it does, like it helps me and. I know if like you're going through shit, like I want you to tell me and like talk to me about it and like get it out. Even if it's like, you know, nothing we can do about it. sometimes we just gotta blab, but

Rebecca: 57:17

Vaguely.

Jamie: 57:18

Yeah. Yeah.

Rebecca: 57:20

That's everything. that was great. Thank you for joining us. and thank you for joining us in the, the whole.

Jamie: 57:28

also, uh, we're not playing a game after stream because yeah, I thanks vague gestures.

Rebecca: 57:37

That, that's the thing. It just, it feels disingenuous.

Jamie: 57:40

But then there's, playing the games where you're doing your little chores and you're feeling better about things. Be a good thing and a bad

Rebecca: 57:48

Who was it who said that? They pretend there's a camera watching them, like an invisible camera watching

Jamie: 57:52

don't know.

Rebecca: 57:54

And like, it's for, that's what forces them to do work. I talking

Jamie: 57:58

at home or you mean in a game?

Rebecca: 58:00

Yeah. No, at home. It's like, that's, it's the game I play is that like I'm being secretly recorded and that's how I do my work.

Jamie: 58:07

Yeah.

Rebecca: 58:08

so awful and mean to yourself.

Jamie: 58:10

cosmic. Thank you guys. Yeah, no, I'm glad. I love, and also like hearing people, I remember Rebecca would like. her fridge and like send me a picture or something and like, just like even seeing that, yeah. Post pictures of like organizing post pictures of your messes, your befores, your afters, your whatever, and discord. Like, share your shit guys. I need to do that because I'm trying to get my shit in order and'cause it, it motivates me to like hear that like talking to somebody about it has motivated them to do this thing and like them being motivated motivates me. And like seeing you accomplish something that like, looks so great and like hearing about like how great it makes you feel, you know, to have completed that task like motivates me. I'm like, oh, maybe I can get in on that dopamine, serotonin.

Rebecca: 59:04

I don't know. I don't have any of that. I don't remember what it's called. My

Jamie: 59:08

I control what I can control. Sometimes that's just staying hydrated. Yes, it is. Sometimes it's feed the cats, drink some water. Try to eat. Yeah. The tours over here making sweaters every week with the fuck.

Rebecca: 59:24

I mean, yeah,

Jamie: 59:26

All right?

Rebecca: 59:27

the fucking president told people to run in his zigzag from the alligators.

Jamie: 59:31

Yep. I don't know how many more pics of the drink cart I can send. Did you put it in Burnout Collective?'cause I don't think you did. I don't think Rebecca's seen it. For example,

Rebecca: 59:40

I

Jamie: 59:40

Rebecca would love to see the drink cart,

Rebecca: 59:42

Absolutely. I would.

Jamie: 59:44

It's drinks for her partner. She doesn't drink any of them, but she sets up now that she's a woman of leisure, she organizes his drinks.

Rebecca: 59:52

Nice. I love

Jamie: 59:53

Torah has not seen a drink car. See, get on that shit, marina.

Rebecca: 59:56

You know what though? I will say one more thing before we go. There might be something where maybe you just have your friend clean your house because when I was at my friend's today, I vacuumed all her rugs. No problem. Couldn't pay me enough money to do that motherfucking house. I hate it, but hers, I was like, I don't know what it was. Maybe it's just'cause it was, I don't live there. But maybe just have a friend come over and help you even though you're

Jamie: 1:00:19

That was an, yeah, that was another thing I was gonna tell you too is like we talked about how, especially our closest friends, or at least mine, don't live near me, really. Like, I can't really do that. Like I don't really have someone that's super close that I can just be like, Hey, come over. Like,

Rebecca: 1:00:37

Commune living. This is why again, we all need to be communists and live a commune

Jamie: 1:00:41

yeah, communist and a commune

Rebecca: 1:00:43

or a sister, wife,

Jamie: 1:00:44

sister, wives and drink carts. I was trying to make a title,

Rebecca: 1:00:48

thank you guys.

Jamie: 1:00:49

thank you

Rebecca: 1:00:50

No, it's fine. Thank you guys for joining us. We will see you next week. please, again, even if you just need to scream into the void, our, we have our discord. feel free to send us an email. we don't have answers, but we can at least empathize and be there with each other.

Jamie: 1:01:06

yeah, uh, we don't have any guests scheduled for the future yet. We have reached out to a couple. again, if you would like to be a guest or you know, someone who you think would be perfect to be a guest on the Burnout Collective, please email us, podcast@burnoutcollective.com. And, yeah, thanks for being here, guys. be nice to yourselves and hopefully everyone can kind of have a relaxing weekend. Maybe do one doom pile.

Rebecca: 1:01:35

America does not deserve a birthday though.

Jamie: 1:01:37

Oh no. Fuck that.

Rebecca: 1:01:38

do not deserve. We do not deserve a birthday party. We're ground. We're grounded.

Jamie: 1:01:43

but I know it means many people have the day off, an extra day off, so enjoy the weekend. It's been real Deuce is.

Rebecca: 1:01:51

See you guys next

Jamie: 1:01:52

Bye guys. I think that went really well. How do we do this? Oh, you didn't make me cry. I was just cause it, I like, I really didn't think, I didn't feel in a place where I was gonna Yeah, I know. But I'm always surprised when we're like, the day of the show, we're like, what are we gonna talk about? Let's talk about this, I guess. And then we do it and Oh, okay. Bye. Oh, I'll talk Audacity. That was funny.