The Burnout Collective

Reclaiming my time by taking up yours

• The Burnout Collective • Season 1 • Episode 26

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"Hey, do you have a minute to chat?"

"Hey, how are you? How was your weekend?"

If your anxiety just skyrocketed or you feel triggered, we get it. That's why Episode 26 is all about the bane of our corporate existence: meetings. 

Listen. The chaos and exhaustion of (mostly pointless) meetings can turn even the most on-it Type A into a burnt out mess. How are you supposed to get any work done when you're in meetings all the time?

So, come fill your BINGO card over here with us! We've got co-workers who never mute, late-evening surprise 1-on-1s, idle chit-chat, and excessive PowerPoint users who use corporate jargon no one understands.

After sharing a few coping mechanisms for long meetings—like crocheting during calls or playing solitaire—we want to remind you of the sweet, sweet relief that comes if you just...turn your off camera.

Have a suggestion for our next episode? A burnout story to share? Send us a text!

Support the show

The Burnout Collective Podcast is hosted by Jamie Young and Rebecca McCracken. We’ve had every ounce of inspiration sucked out by years of startups and hustle culture, and we’re trying to reclaim our creativity. Join us and our guests as we explore how to restart and reenergize our brains. Every Thursday at 5pm PT, we stream live on twitch.tv/TheBurnoutCollective.

Join our Discord community: discord.gg/ZwBjbmVfAF
Follow us on Twitch and Subscribe: twitch.tv/theburnoutcollective
Follow us on our socials: linktr.ee/burnoutcollective

Music track: Snap Your Fingers by Aylex
Source: https://freetouse.com/music

Rebecca:

This is my villain. This is my villain origin story. I think

Jamie:

meetings.

Rebecca:

the girl, the girl who had too many meetings and became a heinous bitch,

I am Jamie. And I'm Rebecca. Welcome to the Burnout Collective.

Jamie:

hey everybody.

Rebecca:

Hi. Welcome to our meeting.

Jamie:

Yeah. Welcome to this meeting that we've called for you today at 5:09 PM on a Thursday. We're having meetings about meetings. yeah, so I. Housekeeping before our second meeting in a minute. sign up for a giveaway. Win merch. Rate, subscribe. Listen to us on all the things, Spotify, apple, wherever, wherever your podcasts. And thank you so much for everybody, to, everybody for supporting us. we really appreciate it. Right now, we're working on our catalog of episodes and getting all the videos from Twitch up on YouTube so that we also have them on our YouTube channel. So please follow us on YouTube too and subscribe. you can catch tons of clips there too. And tons of clips on our social media as well. Now Rebecca and I have, uh, a one-on-one that I threw on her calendar.

Rebecca:

last minute at five o'clock in the afternoon. Thanks so much.

Jamie:

Five o'clock in the evening. Please

Rebecca:

In the evening.

Jamie:

don't let these people think that they can have like 5:00 PM meetings and it's the afternoon.

Rebecca:

You slacked me and went, do you have 10 minutes to chat? I'm like, fuck yes, fine, fine, fine, fine.

Jamie:

Name. You're a manager, so like you don't have a choice. You know, like it becomes that like meetings. Meetings.

Rebecca:

I just started writing in all caps after I had to ask, do you have a second to talk? I just wrote all caps, not bad. That's just what I do.

Jamie:

What?

Rebecca:

If I'm like, Hey, do you have a second to talk?'cause it's like about like, I don't know, an article or a compliance thing. Then I just write in all caps afterward. Not bad. Just so they know,

Jamie:

Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. Like it's not bad. Okay.

Rebecca:

Just so they know.

Jamie:

Yeah. You gotta tell people just because I can be aloof sometimes. I have done that, a time or two without telling somebody, not thinking. but I think usually the person is like, what is this about? And then I'm like, oh, dear God, yes. No, it's nothing bad. Nothing bad. Don't worry about it.

Rebecca:

Yeah. if I, if I tell you then what, there's no point in meeting and it's gonna take me a longer to, you know, it just fucking show up. Okay. Just show up. All you to do is fucking show up.

Jamie:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

I remember when I first started working, like my first job, I would always just watch everyone go to meetings, like the higher ups except for me.'cause I was like an associate editor and

Jamie:

Wasn't that the

Rebecca:

I'd always feel no, I'd always feel left out and just be like, whatever they're talking about, it's probably important. Business stuff

Jamie:

Yeah. And now you know the truth.

Rebecca:

Yeah. And I was like, there's always good gossip. I'm sure that I'm missing out of

Jamie:

Of course. That's what it was.

Rebecca:

one day. I too will go to that many meetings and,

Jamie:

and here you are

Rebecca:

here we are,

Jamie:

now's. How's that working out for you? How's the gossip?

Rebecca:

there is not enough in the world to outweigh the amount of fucking time I spend looking at other people. God.

Jamie:

Not enough gossip in the world. I never thought I would hear you say that.

Rebecca:

I go to our writers, I'm like, what meetings do you guys go to? They're like, like, one a week. I'm like, fuck.

Jamie:

oh my God,

Rebecca:

Must be nice.

Jamie:

must be nice

Rebecca:

The higher you are,

Jamie:

the more meetings and you can't do anything and it's like harder for you to be there for your, your, your people, your direct reports. I.

Rebecca:

Yeah. Yeah. And uh, when are you supposed to actually get work done too? That's the other part of your job?

Jamie:

Oh yeah, that's always my favorite.

Rebecca:

Yeah. I'm not out of that Dante's inferno of middle management yet. Like I still have to manage and do my job like,

Jamie:

You're like, I don't just go to meetings I actually have to do shit like,

Rebecca:

right, So haven't made it that far up where all I do is attend a meetings and then have everyone else do the work. I still have to do work. So.

Jamie:

yeah.

Rebecca:

I just had to come to accept that there are gonna be days where no workday gets done. And that's not stressful for anybody.

Jamie:

No, not at all. They're not wasting your time and company time and company money. Like that's the other thing is like even if you don't care about wasting everybody else's time to the assholes up top who are like all about money hungry and that's all that matters, you're literally wasting money. Because your employees are on salary and so any amount of their time is costing you

Rebecca:

I never start meeting, like every meeting that starts with, so how was your weekend? I want to scream and throw my myself across the room. I never start meetings with chitchat. I'm like, so this is what we're talking about and every meeting I have to be in, we're someone else. The standup warmup. I'm just like, fuck me. This is five minutes of my life. I'm never getting back. This is five minutes. We could have been talking about what we're here for.

Jamie:

I hate when people start Slack messages like that. Hey, how was your weekend? Or like, Hey, how are you? And then nothing. And then there's just a pause and it's like, I'm not even gonna respond to that.'cause I know you want something. Like tell us.

Rebecca:

Yeah, no. Honestly, I, that's one of the things I miss about working with you though, is like during remote meetings, you and I could just

Jamie:

Bullshit. We could do like our little, uh, what are their names from the Muppets. You always remember I can't,

Rebecca:

Walder and or what is it, Waldorf and Statler or

Jamie:

yeah.

Rebecca:

And then we have to watch the other person's face in the other meeting to just bite our cheeks so we don't laugh out loud. We're just going trying to keep straight faces.

Jamie:

Yeah. I love that.

Rebecca:

That's the hardest part about remote is because you're just in a box and there's not like a whole room around you or other people around you. It is very clear when your face is doing a thing, and so the energy spent fighting not to make a face

Jamie:

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca:

is exhausting.

Jamie:

of the time. I would turn my camera off and then also like. First of all, I don't understand the fucking rules of like, have to have cameras on, anyone that does that, it's just like, what is wrong with you? I know it's polite or whatever, and I will have my camera on if it's something that warrants it. But a lot of times that's why I would turn my camera off. And even my coworkers, my peers would be like, you never have your camera on. You never have your camera on. And it's just like, yeah. Who ca like, are you, are you jealous because like, you feel like you can't, or like can't turn yourself off and you want to, or like, why are you so obsessed with me? I stopped turning my camera on because I can't control my face anymore. Yep. See? Exactly.

Rebecca:

Yes.

Jamie:

Exactly.

Rebecca:

When your, when your face is facing and,

Jamie:

Especially when Rebecca's face is facing. Those were

Rebecca:

And I don't know if it's because it's a large company that we work for, and so I don't know if this is like a, like an accessibility thing or if it's just easier to share or disseminate information across such a large company. But they fucking love PowerPoints. They love, they love PowerPoints. We have a template for it, and everyone has to make one for every meeting.

Jamie:

Oh my God. You have to make a fucking PowerPoint for a meeting.

Rebecca:

not like informal ones, but like if there's gonna be higher ups there. Which does that infantalize them? Like is that assuming that they're just too fucking dumb to get it and like they need pictures? Or is it because like they're busy and they have the time, whatever the reason is? I am. I hate making them because to me that's arts and crafts in the workplace

Jamie:

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca:

and uh, I don't know why we can't just look at the school doc that I made.

Jamie:

Yeah. Or yeah, like why there is a meeting at all. Like that's the other thing, the whole, like this meeting could have been an email like I. People that, we were talking about this earlier, but people that like read the PowerPoint to you and it's like, why didn't you just send me this PowerPoint? Or like, they have an agenda doc and it's literally like there's no action to be taken, there's no discussion needed. And they're literally just read, reading the agenda doc to you and you're like, okay,

Rebecca:

Could have read this on my own. In an email. In an email. I say I won't be reading this to you. You have eyeballs.

Jamie:

yeah.

Rebecca:

And then as a treat, I'll leave something off of there so I can say it out loud and then everyone feels like they've gotten some new information and then I can stop talking.

Jamie:

And you can give them five minutes back. Well, I guess we'll end early and like everybody can have their five minutes. That's like my favorite. It's like it's five minutes. Like don't, don't everybody's already upset. This is a meeting at all. Like.

Rebecca:

The worst is when you're in too many meetings and then the jargon starts trickling down into everyday life. Like Q3 and OKR and ebitda.

Jamie:

Ebitda.

Rebecca:

ebitda. It's is it income before taxes? And, see, I don't even know what it is.

Jamie:

Oh fuck.

Rebecca:

Don't even know what it's, but it's like they, they use words and you're just like. Everyone nods their heads, like they know what those

Jamie:

Net income before net Income. That's what Alyssa said.

Rebecca:

but there's no N in there. It's ebitda.

Jamie:

Oh,

Rebecca:

That's what I mean. No one knows. And everyone just nods their head. And finally, I've just taken it going. what does, what does that mean? What do those letters

Jamie:

why don't you Google it, Rebecca. Just kidding.

Rebecca:

Because I don't know, when you say ebitda, I don't know what the fuck letters are in that word.

Jamie:

Yeah, I actually, I actually thought it was an E before you.

Rebecca:

That's what I mean. So that's, ah,

Jamie:

Wait, is this just an episode? Where are we like going back and forth? We're like an episode about things. We like an episode about things we don't like

Rebecca:

we don't like,

Jamie:

meetings. It was

Rebecca:

you can't eat in a meeting either. Like, I, like, I wanna have a snack. Oh.

Jamie:

Who says you can't eat in meetings?

Rebecca:

I have to do the talking. So me

Jamie:

Oh, if it's your meeting, right?

Rebecca:

yeah, because then I make mouth sounds and I don't wanna do that either.

Jamie:

No.

Rebecca:

Oh. Although, although there is a woman that I worked with who her power move was, her power move was bringing something very crunchy to eat during meetings when men would talk. And the more stupid they sounded, the louder she chewed on Mike. And like

Jamie:

I thought she was just chewing, like she would wait for a man to speak before putting like whatever in her mouth and chewing like just to like

Rebecca:

and it would just get louder. No, pretty much. And like the la, the louder I got, the more she chewed and the louder it was. And I like, that's a fucking baller move. Like I, I highly respect that. It was very funny. So she used that for good. I.

Jamie:

That's

Rebecca:

Or like meetings where no one has the agenda or no one knows well, what are we, what are, what are we here to talk about?

Jamie:

Yeah,

Rebecca:

You, you, you made this,

Jamie:

yeah, I love her. Alyssa says, marina says, I love that idea. Maybe I'll forget to mute during my next meeting. Seriously, I. Just like camera off and then like unmute yourself and just, oh my God, that's,

Rebecca:

all the horror stories on Instagram where people like, have diarrhea and so they take their computers in the bathroom with them, but they don't put it on mute and everyone hears

Jamie:

No, marina, it has to be more than celery. It's gotta be like super crunchy

Rebecca:

like rocks, like granolas and rocks.

Jamie:

Granola. Granola is a good one. Kettle potato chips. Another good, another good one.

Rebecca:

Ooh.

Jamie:

These chip ideas. I feel like maybe these need to be added to our cookbook. That's such a good idea. Crunchy foods to make, to eat over men talking in meetings that you don't wanna be in Perfect recipe. Done.

Rebecca:

shit.

Jamie:

I don't think celery would come across on Mike though. Yeah. Oh yeah. The person that like, never muted, dude. There was this one guy that I worked with who I, of course just like hated to begin with'cause he was an awful person. But, uh, he would never mute. And like, not only would he never mute, and so like sometimes like people don't mute and they just, they're like breathing in the mic. And so like, that's all you. And then like my biggest, you know how I am with, sounds like you know exactly how I am with sound and noise. I'm, I'm crazy about it. So like, when people would like not mute and then like people are, and they're using like their laptop speaker that's bouncing off the desk and then everybody's echoing because they haven't muted. And I'm just like, oh my God. Like I, I got to the point where I couldn't take it anymore. So I'd be in like large meetings and I would just be like, can everybody mute? Just wanna make sure like, it's not my meeting, but I would be like, can everybody mute?'cause like, what the hell?

Rebecca:

Oh my God. There would be this one guy who would be breathing, except he must have like a deviated septum or something.'cause you could hear like the slight whistle, like he was too close to his mic so you could

Jamie:

was sleeping. He was probably falling asleep.

Rebecca:

No, he was breathing, but it was just like that whistle breathe like really faint, but just loud enough that it drove me fucking bananas every meeting with him.

Jamie:

I like how I said he was probably falling asleep. And you were like, no, he was breathing. I didn't say he was probably dying. Rebecca, we hope that he is still breathing. You're like, no, he is breathing. Men don't breathe while they sleep.

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Jamie:

Ugh.

Rebecca:

All right, well, we'll see you guys later.

Jamie:

that's it.

Rebecca:

everyone have a good week.

Jamie:

We got more

Rebecca:

give you half an hour of your time back.

Jamie:

carrots. Chips of hoy. I do eat in crochet during meetings on camera. Oh.

Rebecca:

See, that's the other thing. If you're neurodivergent and your hands, like being busy or like twiddling or fiddling, like helps you pay more attention. But then people,

Jamie:

They take it

Rebecca:

don't think you are or they think it's unprofessional. I play checkers like I, I play checkers on the computer or mahjong, like patterns that I can look at while listening. And it has helped a million times

Jamie:

Oh, wow.

Rebecca:

like just having, having a pattern to look at or like having something to click while I'm listening has helped me so much.

Jamie:

oh. you were, you're breaking up for me a little bit, Rebecca. Like you cut out

Rebecca:

I am.

Jamie:

like your video too.

Rebecca:

Well, that's fun.

Jamie:

Maybe if it was just me, like I think a track can let me know. But you seem good now, but like your video and everything was like fuzzy, but yeah, I'm trying to.

Rebecca:

that. For me, you know what? I'm just gonna fake computer issues and then just hang up and walk away from this like other people do in meetings. We're just gonna do that instead,

Jamie:

Okay, Rebecca, that's what I put at the top of our outline. I was like, is this a meeting? It's like, it is a meeting.

Rebecca:

it is a

Jamie:

We're doing a meeting right now.

Rebecca:

and there should be a public execution for the person who's like, actually, I have a few more questions. If anyone has time to go over

Jamie:

I do that,

Rebecca:

Jamie.

Jamie:

only if I think it's beneficial to other people in the call if it's not. I don't say it and,

Rebecca:

you people think it's beneficial to everyone in the call. Oh my God. Oh my God.

Jamie:

but people like me, so it's okay. I don't do it every time. I mean, I did do it a lot in our one content meeting, but. Most of the time it was me asking questions like, okay, but can you like explain why we're doing it this way instead of the way that we've been doing it? And we have to change everything again and spend all this time. Like, my questions were like that,

Rebecca:

For good. Yeah.

Jamie:

like questions that people were scared to ask. Mostly

Rebecca:

Oh, those are the funnest questions to ask. Who's gonna do it? Who's gonna say it?

Jamie:

it's always me. It's always me. I'm the person.

Rebecca:

Oh, it just says it right here on the, I just scroll down. It says, can I ask a couple more questions? Arrow. Arrow, Jamie.

Jamie:

yeah, I marked it as me in the outline. I was like, that's me. I. I also have like the like types of like useless meetings. And then I have like a list of different types of meetings that we think are useless. And then I have types of productive meetings. And then I just have a bullet that says examples. Alyssa says, I hate hearing. Can we go over when I've watched the 30 minutes already? Oh my God. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Rebecca:

I will not laugh at dad. Dad jokes in meetings either. That's my rule. I will not laugh at dad jokes. I won't do

Jamie:

we don't laugh at dad jokes period. Yeah,

Rebecca:

or puns. No puns.

Jamie:

we

Rebecca:

have to be here, I'm

Jamie:

don't allow. We don't allow. oh, that's one that like, oh, you, did you see my, I also put cheerful fucking meetings when they're laying you off or after they just laid a bunch of people off. I've been in

Rebecca:

of this as a chance for like your next adventure. Guys. Just think of this as an opportunity to go out there and just have an adventure

Jamie:

I dunno if I did that

Rebecca:

been in a couple of those myself.

Jamie:

I just clipped that. You're welcome.

Rebecca:

I think I've told you my favorite meeting was when I was with that one bitch who I worked for and fucking hated, and I was like, this isn't working. She's like, I agree, and she's like, I'm firing you. No, I'm quitting. That was my favorite meeting where we just told each other how much we hate each other and I got to leave.

Jamie:

I'm firing you. No, I quit

Rebecca:

No, I quit. You can't because I'm quitting.

Jamie:

and I've, well, nevermind. Yeah. We all know the story,

Rebecca:

Or the, or the people who overshare about their life. Are you like I guys, I'm sorry. I am late. My kid had hand foot and mouth disease and then my cat shit on the floor and the groceries were late from Instacart. And it was just like, I don't care

Jamie:

it's too

Rebecca:

like the overs shares or like they know way too much about like your life because you have told them everything, or No, I'll let people show me their dogs. I wanna see their dogs.

Jamie:

Oh, yeah. Pets. Pets are always like a welcome distraction. Like, I'm not gonna be mad about pets. There's no way.

Rebecca:

dude. After the election, we just had one meeting where we just showed everyone our dogs for half an hour.

Jamie:

Or somebody just had a baby, like your manager just said a baby and is like, Hey guys, sorry. Like I had to bring her with me. You know, like. And then like the whole 30 minutes was like everyone cooing over the baby. And it's like, that's great. Let's do like a little happy hour where we like see the baby. Happy hour maybe. baby hour. I don't,

Rebecca:

That's unprofessional. Bringing your baby. Don't bring your baby. I don't wanna see your

Jamie:

I mean I, Hey, people can bring

Rebecca:

I don't wanna see your,

Jamie:

Some people have to.

Rebecca:

Bring your dog. Well, then they can tell it to be quiet and not show it on camera. I wanna see your dog though. That's fine. I don't wanna see your baby or

Jamie:

It's clear. It's very clear. If I get the balls to quit without notice, it will be, it's been real deuces and then I never come back. Sounds like some

Rebecca:

Oh, you know what? That's a

Jamie:

Ferris Bueller.

Rebecca:

Exit interviews, petty exit interviews are a fun type of meeting. I do love Those

Jamie:

Nobody, like, I don't get the point. I don't get the point.'cause they don't care. They legitimately do not fucking care. I've never worked at a place.

Rebecca:

but they have to listen to us when we tell them.

Jamie:

Very true. Most places don't even do them. Forbes didn't do it.

Rebecca:

were fun. You were lucky. Forbes didn't like slam your fingers in the door as they kicked you the fuck out.

Jamie:

I feel like they did. I feel like they did. Um, my fingers are still hurting five months later. yeah. Or meetings where like, it's usually a manager, but it can also be maybe like a peer who is like trying to move up. they're like, this is like my stage. I called this meeting and it's my stage, so I'm gonna have a PowerPoint and I'm gonna read it to you. Like, and I'm gonna have like dumb gif and like old memes from like the early aughts.

Rebecca:

now.

Jamie:

I know you love memes and gifs, which is fine, but you, you choose good ones. You choose good ones. I'm talking about like old ass memes, like, I don't know, they're like Leroy Jenkins or like, I don't know, stupid stuff. I was gonna preface that by saying, listen, I know you like, but have you not seen someone do a presentation or a PowerPoint? And it's just,

Rebecca:

You know what they do after I do one with them in it, and they don't know how to do it, right?

Jamie:

what I'm talking about, Rebecca, the people that don't know how to do it like

Rebecca:

so gross. The theme was RuPaul's Drag Race. You did it wrong.

Jamie:

Perfect. Hey Shep, what's up? We're talking about sh

Rebecca:

they'll look at me, they'll look at me. This is my show, like this is my show,

Jamie:

Oh, yeah,

Rebecca:

meeting.

Jamie:

yeah. I'm gonna do my, my own little monologue about. I don't know, and like I have to say, this is another thing that I wanted to touch on is like introverts in meetings and extroverts in meetings. Maybe I shouldn't touch on extroverts in meetings because

Rebecca:

That's just every fucking day for them.

Jamie:

I just,

Rebecca:

They don't have to work themselves up to go to a meeting. It's just part of their schedule.

Jamie:

Oh, I didn't even think about that part. You're right. I didn't even think about working yourself up. I was focused on like recovering after. Yeah, preparing.

Rebecca:

I have IBS diarrhea down to a science where I, if I have seven minutes, I know I can shit my guts out within six and still make the meeting. Because I'm so nervous about this meeting and I don't wanna go. Like I got that shit on lock meeting prep,

Jamie:

literally. Why?

Rebecca:

meeting prep time,

Jamie:

Why do I feel like our podcast is always about diarrhea somehow?

Rebecca:

because my life is about diarrhea. Jamie,

Jamie:

As an extrovert. However, I do not want to shine in a meeting. It is not attention I value. Yes. That was part of it is I was like, I know. Like it's not, and it's not even necessarily like, I just feel like it's mostly extroverts, I should say, when this happens. It's mostly extroverts, but yeah, the people who are like, this is my stage, and like look at me and you know, like, I don't know, like the try hards of meetings. I guess.

Rebecca:

I'm sorry. You mean the pick me girls of meetings?

Jamie:

me girls of meetings. Right. Jj? Right. Em maybe I'm listening.

Rebecca:

The, the Pickney Girls of meetings?

Jamie:

What's true? I just don't like it. But then, yeah, as introverts we have to spend time preparing. We have to spend time recovering after and sometimes. When you have so many meetings, you don't, either you don't have time to recover or you have very minimal time, and then you never actually recover, and then you're just going through meeting, through meeting through meeting, just slowly dwindling.

Rebecca:

Oh, I just remembered my favorite meeting that I've had at this current job. So it was like our monthly meeting and the guy who's talking is like, he's pretty serious. He's pretty professional and buttoned up. And, we had just had a new editor start. Right. And so while he's talking, um. You know how like in Google Meet, you can do like a high five or like a thumbs up emoji or a heart or whatever. Like he would talk and she would do like the thinking one, or like, he would be like, and this is a win, and she'd do a heart. And I was like, okay, she's older than I am. So I'm like, maybe she doesn't understand like how to, like how to use emojis in meetings. Right? And I was like, okay. But then,

Jamie:

have seen

Rebecca:

then it was like, then it was like 17 hearts in a row, and then it was like 47 laughing faces. And I'm like, what the fuck is you doing? Because it, it shows on screen for everyone when you're doing it. And I'm like, I'm like, what are you doing? What are you doing? And I'm

Jamie:

she's like sucking up.

Rebecca:

What are you doing? And she didn't answer. And I'm like, oh my God. So then I called her on the phone and I was like, what are you doing? She's like, what are you talking about? I was like, you're acting, but fuck crazy in the meeting with the emoji. She's like, what? I'm not even on the computer. And it turns out her kid. been watching the whole time, but the thing was they were doing the emojis, like they were doing the right emojis in the right spot too. Like when he was, like, when the guy was talking about, you know, the court or whatever, and I was like, yeah, that's a good point. Or like when he made a joke, like he was doing them right,

Jamie:

How old was her

Rebecca:

a lot.

Jamie:

Like 14-year-old.

Rebecca:

no, like six.

Jamie:

Just kidding. I'm just kidding.

Rebecca:

It was so cute. But like now he knows who she is in like a good way. And like she made, she made a mark. She didn't have to say a word, she just,

Jamie:

Oh

Rebecca:

it was, it was my favorite.

Jamie:

that's amazing.

Rebecca:

But like my boss was trying to get ahold of her. We were all just like, oh my God, she's crazy. We hired a crazy person.

Jamie:

she was great. Wouldn't be the first time. Elizabeth says, my pet peeve is when the try hards start a company team butt kissing train. Yes,

Rebecca:

Oh, yuck.

Jamie:

make me, make me perform enthusiasm. It's like, yeah. Or like if you, you know, if you're at a kind of smaller company where they still do like town halls, I guess, where people can actually like speak,

Rebecca:

Oh yeah.

Jamie:

which I think is getting rarer rare. They're like, no, no, no, we don't want, keep everybody on mute.

Rebecca:

a question that we'll ignore. You can submit a

Jamie:

Oh yeah. Oh, that's my favorite. Submit a question.

Rebecca:

What about bonuses? What about bonuses? So, uh, it looks like we don't have any questions. What about PTO?

Jamie:

I've been straight up ignored in a town hall for where I've sent questions and they've read, everyone's looked at mine, clearly skipped it, and then moved on to other people's.

Rebecca:

So anyway, guys, thanks for coming. Uh, yeah, we'll just wrap this up. It's like, no, no.

Jamie:

like, guys, guys are My hands still up? I'm the only person still in the room.

Rebecca:

We just don't see anybody here. Hello.

Jamie:

It's ridiculous.

Rebecca:

I never wanna be that person in a meeting. I really don't. I never wanna be the person that everyone dread having a meeting with. I probably am, as I've said this loud though,

Jamie:

No.

Rebecca:

but they're short. They're short meetings. You can't, you can't deny that.

Jamie:

Yeah. Yeah. That's another thing. Sometimes people like. Once in a while I would say like, Hey, I don't know how long this is gonna take us, so I'm setting it for an hour. And I was like, I think it's only gonna take 30 minutes, but I figure that that's better. And also I feel like people like that because they're like, yes, please put time on my calendar so I don't get another meeting scheduled. You know, like,

Rebecca:

And that's true. Oh my God. You could have counterfeit meetings and then just block off most of your calendar. So like.

Jamie:

oops,

Rebecca:

Because you can't put like busy, like you can't put busy.'cause people can see your calendar and what they are. So like you would have

Jamie:

change it so people can't, so all they see is busy.

Rebecca:

Yeah. But then it looks like you're blocking it off. Like if it shows you have meeting with, you know, X, Y, and Z, then it looks legit.

Jamie:

You could probably make up names too, and they'll never know the difference. Be like meeting with Susan from hr. Yeah. Or just su like Susan, right? You're just like meeting with Susan one-on-one with Susan,

Rebecca:

yeah. There's like 27 Susans who work there.

Jamie:

and Susan is, some fucking che cheese and crackers and a nap after her.

Rebecca:

yes. I'll just put in a meeting on my Slack if I'm like, I will not, I will not take any questions at this time. I'll just put on a meeting.

Jamie:

Mm-hmm. I would keep mine on do Not disturb a lot of the time, and then would just like, like my direct reports knew that I just like always kept it on that so they could message me whenever, but Cosmic said,

Rebecca:

and the worst part too is, oh, sorry. Go ahead. No, no, go ahead.

Jamie:

I've told my current managers that I refuse to go to a meeting that could be an email and I was excused from all future meetings. That's, Hey

Rebecca:

Ballsy.

Jamie:

that, no, like I'm surprised they did that. There's no way if I ever did that somewhere, they would be like, yeah, sure. I'm going through a tunnel. I can't see your question. Yeah,

Rebecca:

I don't know, like I, when we, when you and I met today, I was like, I, this has been a week of meeting, it's like, don't wanna do this today, because it's like, I have talked ad nauseum all week and you're just, you're just peopled out and you're, and it's like having to be on all day every day.

Jamie:

yeah. Should we turn off our cameras? Do you need a camera off moment?

Rebecca:

no. It just, no, it just, that just sounded so fucking autistic as I said it and realized it.

Jamie:

No, it didn't.

Rebecca:

I was just gonna be like, it's like putting on a show and then Mo again, most people probably don't think of meetings as having to put on a show.

Jamie:

do. I'm not autistic maybe. Huh?

Rebecca:

What? Pre get Dr. Pre back. Jamie, let's cut your

Jamie:

Bring back the doctor.

Rebecca:

the inside. What color is your cake on the inside, Jamie?

Jamie:

Well, it's like definitely confetti.

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Jamie:

We put this

Rebecca:

I don't know. And

Jamie:

one has sour skittles on top. And the frosting,

Rebecca:

And people who are justifying their jobs with meetings too. That's the other thing. A lot of people have meetings to justify their existence of their jobs because if they're not putting on their Look at me show, then people wonder like, what do you do all day?

Jamie:

I believe. See, but this is the thing. I think, and I know not all, but I think most people, especially higher up, like not middle management like us, but like higher ups, I don't think most of them do do anything

Rebecca:

That, that's what I said. Like you have you, you have, I am at the work where I have to work and go to meetings. They get to work and then tell people what to do.

Jamie:

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca:

the level you have to get

Jamie:

that's what I'm saying. We wanna like, I feel like we need to cut that out because you know what we're doing. They're getting paid double what we're,

Rebecca:

what to do? Jamie?

Jamie:

they're getting paid, double what we're getting paid to do nothing and sit in meetings and we're getting paid half that much to sit in all the same meetings and do actual work and help our direct reports with work

Rebecca:

Maybe they think that meetings, so instead of just like handing down edicts, maybe they think meetings make it seem more of like a democracy instead of like

Jamie:

me back.

Rebecca:

dictatorship, I don't know,

Jamie:

Yeah,

Rebecca:

maybe. Maybe people feel like connected to other people in meetings when they see them or like get to talk in person to other people. I don't know

Jamie:

I think a lot of people do. It's the people that are like, I wanna go back to in-office. I like don't like remote. I need people. You have people right there.

Rebecca:

Yeah. Look at

Jamie:

there's the same amount of exhausting, like,

Rebecca:

The people who need people freaks, all of them. That to me says that you need someone to watch you work because you don't know how to work well on your own, and unless you have someone breathing down your neck to keep you on task, you're gonna go off task. That's what that indicates to me. If you say you need to be around people to do your work, then you're not good at doing your job.

Jamie:

I don't think they're saying though that they need it to do

Rebecca:

in my head, I just went through everyone I know who said that they wanna be in person. I stand by what I said.

Jamie:

Okay.

Rebecca:

Everyone who I've heard say that I stand by what I said.

Jamie:

Any, anybody in the chat wanna go back to in-office?

Rebecca:

Tell me how bad you are at your job.

Jamie:

I don't

Rebecca:

I could be by myself for months and totally be

Jamie:

Oh yeah. If I had like, literally if I had like no contact except like literally sending an email to like turn something in. Oh my God. What a dream.

Rebecca:

Can you imagine people sending coworkers an email like you said to your parents about going no contact, like moving forward. I'm going no contact

Jamie:

That's not what I meant.

Rebecca:

for my own state of mind and wellbeing. I'm setting this boundary with you.

Jamie:

Leave that like when you're in

Rebecca:

when I wanna speak again.

Jamie:

Yeah. Stupid. we're doing great. I just meant having zero contact with the people you work with at all, except for like turning in, like them saying, Hey, I need you to do this, and you turn it in basically like I'm just a freelance writer, right?

Rebecca:

Yeah. People know how to get me into meetings and it's if they write, I have gossip, fucking I'm in there.

Jamie:

People write, I have gossip, or they like tell you separately.

Rebecca:

No, they, they message me, I have tea. And I'm like, yes, that'll get me in there. Or if they wanna tell me about the meeting they just had. That is my other favorite meeting is having a meeting where you get to tell like your work wife, everything they just told you not to tell them.

Jamie:

That happened when, they did promotions, at, for at Forbes and they told me because I was her manager, they told me that Ash was being promoted to. And they were like, but don't tell her'cause like we haven't talked to her yet. Like, like please don't. I'm like, yeah, of course. You know, immediately like called her and was like, okay, so they're promoting you. This is what's happening. pretend that you don't know. And like our manager totally knew'cause like she said, like don't tell her. But she knew that I was gonna tell her'cause she knew how close we were and how long we've worked together and like our dynamic. And so like Ash goes to the meeting and she's like, oh wow. Like oh that's so great. You know? And like, and I was,'cause it's all act you gotta act surprised. And so she did. And then at the very end of the meeting, like our manager was like, I know Jamie told you already, but like, good job. Tell her you did a good job. I was like, damn it, they're onto us.

Rebecca:

and you have to call too,'cause there can't be any evidence in text messages or slacks. Do you remember when. Do you remember when Slack first came out and companies started using it and like the misinformation that went around, people being like, they can read all your messages, blah, blah, blah. And now that people know how it work, how it works, you get the most unhinged fucking messages from your coworkers that if anyone ever saw it, you would immediately get

Jamie:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think like, I feel like you even told me that once you were like, people would've been fired a long time ago, if they could read the chat messages.

Rebecca:

Yes. 1000%. Absolutely. Oh, Jamie, I miss being in meetings with you. I did like that. That was fun

Jamie:

well, thank you. I'd rather just do a podcast with you. That's what this is. Oh my God. Did we just do a like, create like live meetings?

Rebecca:

Yeah. Well, and that's true. And we have people to witness us in like real, like, just like in real meetings too, so they can see us be total assholes. Yeah,

Jamie:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

we did it. We did it.

Jamie:

And they're like, they're like over there like, oh my God, they're such messes. Yeah, they're such a mess.

Rebecca:

I love, I also, the one thing I do love about middle management is when we have a new employee come on, I get to tell everyone to meet with a new employee, and then I offload all of like the onboarding

Jamie:

I hate that.

Rebecca:

Oh, I love it because I know how I talk and when I train you, I have told you exactly what I think needs to happen. And when you don't get it, I get upset and frustrated and I don't have the patience to explain it to

Jamie:

I am good at training, I'm good at training. I'm good with like newbies. most of'em, but.

Rebecca:

I get frustrated and annoyed like, what do you mean you don't understand This very complicated procedure that I clearly did a whole Google Doc outline on and just showed you in person.

Jamie:

You are like my 13-year-old would get this. I don't understand why you don't.

Rebecca:

Listen, I think it's a sign of a good manager to know your limits,

Jamie:

I think so too. I think so too.

Rebecca:

but also then all the hate is not direct. The other thing is then they don't hate you for having like eight hours worth of meetings solely with them. They can hate other people too, and not just you.

Jamie:

God, did you see my tips? put tips for

Rebecca:

to avoid

Jamie:

useless meanings. One

Rebecca:

get laid off.

Jamie:

get laid off.

Rebecca:

that's fucking brilliant.

Jamie:

meetingless right now. Well, that's not true. I do have some meetings, but they're mo mostly with Rebecca, so they're fun.

Rebecca:

There's one more meeting I thought of that I like. So there's a meeting with a woman that I, I work with and she is so fucking smart. And when you don't do your job good enough, she will ask you a question in a way that sounds so totally neutral, but is so fucking cutting and mean because she knows you don't know the answer and it's terrifying. And she, she basically, she basically makes you professionally slice your stomach open right then and there in front of everyone and show them your guts because she just is like, so I'm just trying to understand by doing

Jamie:

goes Rebecca's hero.

Rebecca:

She really is. I'm like, I wanna be like her when I grow up. She's so good at it. And

Jamie:

is this the same woman who eats over men talking

Rebecca:

know this is

Jamie:

as soon as I

Rebecca:

I have two role models.

Jamie:

you have. You work with good people.

Rebecca:

And she just says Really, really neutrally. I have a question and I do this, and then I see my coworker do this, and we just go, buckle the fuck up. We know it's about to go down.

Jamie:

my God.

Rebecca:

And then when they hang themselves, finally she's like, she lets it sit silent for a while. And she's like, okay, thank you. Oh my God.

Jamie:

Good

Rebecca:

And you just, you just know, you know, you've witnessed an assassination and it's so masterful.

Jamie:

love it.

Rebecca:

Those are the meetings that keep me going. Honestly, if she's in a meeting You bet. I'm in that meeting. Just for, just in case.

Jamie:

You're like looking at our schedule, like inviting yourself to meetings.

Rebecca:

yeah. Oh, hey. Are you going to that one? Me too.

Jamie:

Wait, did our thing not change? Does it still say it's our birthday stream?

Rebecca:

No, it's not our birthday stand.

Jamie:

did I not

Rebecca:

was our birthday stand.

Jamie:

Did I not change it? Oh, I did change it. Oh. Oh, it's the tag. I didn't remove the tag. That was last week. Q sorry, sorry. Missed it. But we are doing a giveaway.

Rebecca:

$30. Yeah,

Jamie:

If you do exclamation point giveaway, you can enter our giveaway, raffle thing. and you can win a t-shirt, and some and or a t-shirt or stickers.

Rebecca:

but cool Stickers, not like stupid ass stickers, like cool holographic stickers.

Jamie:

Oh my God. That's exactly what I said,

Rebecca:

What?

Jamie:

Girl. I said You're giving Spice

Rebecca:

I mean, I thank you so

Jamie:

spice Girl vibes.

Rebecca:

with much for noticing. What else? Do you have scheduled time for yourself diarrhea? 10 15 to 10 27. I do, I do schedule that in.

Jamie:

But I think that's actually genius. Like now I'm like, I should have always done my meetings that way where I'm like, I'm setting this for an hour and a half, but it should really only take like 40 minutes or like 30 minutes. just like give everybody time back,

Rebecca:

I hate that. I hate that phrase. I'm giving you your time

Jamie:

I know I hate that too, but like if I'm actually giving someone time back and not fucking five minutes, like if someone does that for me, I'm like, yes, please, please don't. I mean, don't tell me, don't tell me I'm giving you time back, but.

Rebecca:

Is your, I was gonna say, it's not me giving you, is your time being colonized because like they're taking, because you know you have to go anyway, so you're not willingly giving it. But they're still taking it.

Jamie:

They're just colonizers

Rebecca:

Our meetings, our work meetings, just time colonization.

Jamie:

next week. More high thoughts from Rebecca. I think you guys are onto something.

Rebecca:

but also, can you imagine just in the middle of the meeting going colonizer and just see what happens.

Jamie:

then like them being like, I'm sorry, Rebecca, what was that? And you'd be like, what?

Rebecca:

Colonizer says what?

Jamie:

I wanna start crying, but you just don't, I'm not even gonna be able to get, I'm trying to get through the tips that I've listed here.

Rebecca:

Listen, the other exhausting type of meeting is the meeting that you have in your shower. Either pre the meeting you don't wanna go to, or after the meeting you really fucked up in and didn't give that person a piece of your fucking mind. So having pretend meetings in your head in the shower

Jamie:

Where you like tell people what you really think.

Rebecca:

Yes. Or prep for those are like, it's just meetings all the

Jamie:

So when we're talking about meetings, I feel like you're talking about any sort of interaction you have with anybody.

Rebecca:

that takes up my time that I give to other people. Yeah, pretty much. Doctor's, appointment meeting, dentist office meeting therapy. Actually a meeting, but they're all meetings. Really? Yeah. Pretty much. You know what?

Jamie:

PTA

Rebecca:

want everyone to leave me alone. I just want everyone to leave me alone and I just wanna stay in my room. I think that's the thesis of this whole podcast,

Jamie:

I thought you were gonna say. I think that's the least you can do.

Rebecca:

honestly. Yes.

Jamie:

I just wanna be, stay in my room and I want everyone to leave me alone. I think that's the least you can do,

Rebecca:

Oh shit. You know what though? I like the idea of time blocking your calendar. Like I've seen people be like, Hey, getting ready for the day, do not schedule anything during this time. Like that is really, actually smart. Like

Jamie:

but I, I put busy all Torres here. Hi babies. I just woke up and wanted to say hi before more sleep. You both look super hot.

Rebecca:

Neil,

Jamie:

Love you. Thank you for the sub

Rebecca:

meeting glow?

Jamie:

six, six months post-meeting. We're in the middle of the meeting.

Rebecca:

Oh, and when your face turns bright red in the meeting and everyone can fucking see it.

Jamie:

Turn off your camera.

Rebecca:

I can't. I can't turn off my camera. That's the thing. When you're a manager, you gotta leave it on. You gotta set a good example.

Jamie:

Not always. You gotta take care

Rebecca:

I should just turn it off in the middle of talking. Yeah, I'll just turn it off the next time. I'm just in the middle of talking. Just turn it

Jamie:

I didn't mean in the middle of you talking, but like

Rebecca:

No, I still like that idea. I think it's a good

Jamie:

Sure, yeah, you could. Yeah. You could do that too. Mm-hmm.

Rebecca:

Yeah,

Jamie:

Or you could, start with your camera off in some meetings you can be like, oh, I'm so sorry, my like, baby. And uh, it's the whole thing with the dogs.

Rebecca:

Bailey, meanwhile, it's a golden doodle.

Jamie:

They're like, I didn't know you had, you had another baby. And then you're just like, oh yeah, forgot. I do need to take maternity leave. Just see, this is just setting you up for success. Going in camera off.

Rebecca:

You know what you miss though, while you've been unemployed. Google Meet Now has a new feature where it will take

Jamie:

That hurt.

Rebecca:

you. I'm sorry, but like you haven't seen it in action yet. Google Meet takes notes for you and whoever the whatever language model they trained it on, it takes the most contentious fucking meetings and turns them into such like pussy milk toast. Like, like Rebecca. Rebecca expressed disagreement when I'm like, are you fucking crazy in the actual meeting? And is just as like Rebecca expressed surprise, and, disappointment.

Jamie:

Does it really say that like

Rebecca:

yeah. No, it really does it

Jamie:

so it knows your

Rebecca:

Z. Yes, it can tell who's talking. It knows who said what, and it takes a transcript of the entire meeting too. It gives you receipts, Jamie, you have receipts.

Jamie:

go back to work again. I will.

Rebecca:

So now on top of everything else, I have to be in meetings and like, oh my God, this is gonna be on record. Fuck fuzzy

Jamie:

Pussy milk toast. All right, we gotta put that on a t-shirt now. We'll do that cue. Pussy milk toast.

Rebecca:

milk toast.

Jamie:

What would the imagery for that be like?

Rebecca:

I dunno. But it's great. Either way. It's great. And again, when someone is wrong about something, now you have it there in full receipt format. You can be like, actually it has taken, as I said in my last email, or as per my last email to a whole other fucking level,

Jamie:

Oh my god.

Rebecca:

I.

Jamie:

Stupid. We don't have a whole lot on the story yet, but we're working on it. Pussy milk toast will be next. We do, we have aprons, which I was so happy about actually. I like our journals. I kind of need to get one of our journals and a

Rebecca:

If you get it, that will be the one that changes your life. That will be the one.

Jamie:

the right

Rebecca:

Get that notebook. It's

Jamie:

That's what we need to put, we need to make a journal that's like, this is the notebook that will change your life. I think people already do that. That's like some shit at Target or something.

Rebecca:

Oh, I have to show you. I was so

Jamie:

Target. Shop Burnout Collective. What?

Rebecca:

I was so embarrassed yesterday at my pens, or last time we had, so I redid my pens and then I separated them into highlighters and pencils and then actual colored pens because I was embarrassed by how sloppy it

Jamie:

I have my meds on my desk, so killing it. It's kind of like your pen thing.

Rebecca:

I also have my meds on my desk. I don't know. Jamie,

Jamie:

We don't like meetings. I was so very like infamous for hating meetings at my last job. Especially.

Rebecca:

you and I competed at Student Loan Hero to see whose meeting could be the shortest.

Jamie:

Did we really? I.

Rebecca:

Yes. I got mine down to six minutes. Once

Jamie:

I'm like, I don't remember this. Rebecca's like I do. I won. I do. I was the

Rebecca:

pretty short too. You'd be in and out. Like you were good at it too. You could just be like, here's what you need to do, blah, blah, blah. Okay, bye.

Jamie:

I feel like if we did that then I would've just like sent an email and been like, I'm not doing a meeting. My meeting's zero mic drop.

Rebecca:

I think we wanted to see each other, or maybe it was like meeting with like our direct reports. Something like that.

Jamie:

Oh, that's fair.

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Jamie:

Yeah. Yeah. There are some times when you need meetings, but I think those are better. I do notice not a lot of people, but I see now and then, and I hope they mean it. And it's not just trying to like bait people into applying, but I do see companies that in the jds say like, we. Are like 90% meeting free. Or like they say something like, we don't believe in like, meetings. this is the amount of me. They'll even say like, this is the amount of meetings you'd have in this position. And that's it.

Rebecca:

I don't believe that for one fucking second.

Jamie:

I, I, I guess I want to believe it. like, I wanna

Rebecca:

Well, molder wanted to believe in aliens. And guess what?

Jamie:

Yeah. The truth is out there, Rebecca.

Rebecca:

This is how many meetings you'll have in

Jamie:

The truth is out there. also just because this reminded me of it, uh, do you know they're coming out with a Fasm phobia movie,

Rebecca:

Oh,

Jamie:

right?

Rebecca:

why? Why?

Jamie:

Rob told me this, will, this, this? And I didn't believe it.'cause I was like, what are they gonna do?

Rebecca:

That's weird.

Jamie:

it's very weird. Thank you. Cute.

Rebecca:

mean, okay, I forgot. I totally forgot what I was gonna tell you

Jamie:

Oh,

Rebecca:

Oh, well I'll

Jamie:

was it about meetings? Yeah. If we like hang up and then you need to schedule

Rebecca:

about meetings. Yeah, it was about meetings

Jamie:

after this. Like, usually Rebecca and I like to like chit chat a little bit after this, after this. Like, she's literally gonna be like, all right, see ya. Talk to you. Talk to you tomorrow. at 7:00

Rebecca:

no. Oh no. I remember what I was gonna say. So Google Calendar also has this feature where I can tell you how many hours you've spent so far in meetings.

Jamie:

Google, if you could sponsor us.

Rebecca:

That shit makes me actively suicidal,

Jamie:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

legitimately. And I'm

Jamie:

They didn't have that before. Yeah.

Rebecca:

and I think of all the things that I could have done in that time. I do the math, I'm like, okay, I can read a book this long in six hours, and that means I could have read 210 books last year. Like that kind of shit. And then it's just

Jamie:

Hey, manna.

Rebecca:

depressing. Yeah.

Jamie:

Well, I'm telling you, you will open up a world of possibilities if you ever decide to enter a meeting with your camera off at the beginning.

Rebecca:

Here's the other thing that I just thought of. Maybe this is another high thought. Do you remember when we watched like the Jetsons and it would be so cool that it was a like a basically FaceTime where it was, you know, they were talking to someone on the screen and we're like, that'll never, that'll never fucking happen. That is just so magical and like such a technological marvel and now you and I are sitting here and be like, we have to fucking do Jetsons technology every fucking day at our jobs and we fucking hate it.

Jamie:

Yep. Yeah. That, that's true.

Rebecca:

We

Jamie:

Whatever.

Rebecca:

we're doing, and we have robot maids. You have your Roomba.

Jamie:

And the, uh, litter robot. The litter robot. This

Rebecca:

Yep.

Jamie:

is also why I crocheted during meetings, reclaiming at least my hands time. Yeah, it's a nice way of looking at it. Alyssa. Yes. Marina. Mute him. Just kidding.

Rebecca:

or the rare meeting where you involuntarily cry. That's the worst

Jamie:

Trying to think if I cry. Oh yeah. I did cry. I actually cried in a layoff meeting once. It was the credible one I didn't like expect to, and that's like it not normally me.

Rebecca:

that's, that's called involuntary crying, which I literally just said an involuntary cry.

Jamie:

I was saying, yes, I've done that before, is what I was saying. Shut up, you're high.

Rebecca:

Okay. Yeah. No. And then your boss has to sit you while you just do like the wide-eyed, try not to blink, and then you just do like the one crazy tear down your face, and your face is bright red and you have like the adrenaline shakes and you're just like, it's fine.

Jamie:

my God. That also describes, I guess this has happened a couple times, I wasn't even thinking, but when I was in office at the place, Alyssa and I met, when I went to talk to my current manager and the head of HR about like, literally like how shitty this other manager was treating me. Um, and they wanted me to put, then they were like, we're gonna put you under her. And I was like, lemme uh, let me talk to you guys. And yeah, crying at work is the worst, but also necessary.

Rebecca:

you know what though? I do like, I do like my direct report meetings, but I think that's'cause we don't talk about work like maybe for five minutes. But then like they tell me all the shit that they're doing and that's fun. And it was like, how was your vacation? And like, what are you working on in your yard? And that I really like. I like, oh my God, am I a person who likes people at the office? No. No. Maybe I just like it because it's a different meeting than what I usually have to do,

Jamie:

Well, you said you don't like it when people talk about their personal shit, but now all I'm hearing is I love it when people talk about

Rebecca:

In a no, in a meeting where you're supposed to be there for a reason in a meeting where you're supposed to be there and everyone is there. And then I have to, we have to do the

Jamie:

so you can be in a one-on-one with anybody and enjoy hearing about their

Rebecca:

direct report

Jamie:

only. Okay.

Rebecca:

only.

Jamie:

But sometimes you don't get to pick your direct report.

Rebecca:

Listen, Jamie, we already know that

Jamie:

I'm really devil's advocating so hard.

Rebecca:

in case, in case anyone hears this, who I have to have direct report meetings with, I need you to know that I like having meetings with you.'cause I accidentally said this podcast to my boss already. So just saying out loud just in case.

Jamie:

Yep.

Rebecca:

Oh my God, that was so bad.

Jamie:

Get paid to socialize. Rebecca is the manager and gets to set the tone. It's true. See, Alyssa is on your

Rebecca:

The tone is no.

Jamie:

The tone is, can we not?

Rebecca:

The tone is absolutely no.

Jamie:

The tone is if you don't have gossip, get out.

Rebecca:

what are we even doing here? What are we even doing here? Yeah.

Jamie:

Pussy milk, the tones.

Rebecca:

Well, did you ever take smoke breaks at work? Like, did you ever do smoke breaks at work? Like, I would say like slack huddles are maybe like the equivalent of smoke breaks at

Jamie:

Mm-hmm. I could see that.

Rebecca:

get like, have, like, yeah, you just get to hang out and just talk trash for a

Jamie:

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca:

hear about like someone's horrendous date and then you go back to work. I do like that

Jamie:

Yeah, I guess

Rebecca:

I can go, okay, I'm done, and then I hang up. I do like that. I do like being able to do that. I set the tone and I get to leave, so like,

Jamie:

wow. She didn't even smoke half or cigarette. That's weird. I guess she's trying to cut back.

Rebecca:

Oh, no, Jamie, I like, I like making

Jamie:

It's too much. Yeah, I know.

Rebecca:

and I had a really sad thought today that I was like, I am, I know me, and I'm never going to get to the point where like I just only go to meetings and tell people what to do. Like I'm always gonna be in a position where I have to do some type of work, but I'm just gonna get more meetings added to my plate and then I just got really depressed.

Jamie:

I mean start, set more boundaries, be more like I'm not going to that meeting. I would literally like talk to your manager.

Rebecca:

But if I don't go to that meeting, then how am I gonna know the good stuff when it happens?

Jamie:

You like, tell like your friend that's there. Just be like, Hey, update me if there's any gossip. But other than that, don't update me.

Rebecca:

You know what, maybe we could take turns, like trade off. Like I'll go to this meeting and you don't go to that one. If I, if you go to this meeting and I don't go to that.

Jamie:

That's brilliant. Yeah. And then like you could hold up a picture of that person next to you like we did with Kate at the,

Rebecca:

Yes. Yes. like they're there

Jamie:

they can hold up you to call attention to it for everyone to be like, where's Rebecca? She's right here. No, really like covering like a scarf over like the stick She's here.

Rebecca:

And because of my face, they would think it's the same. It would just be me going and my face would not move the entire time except just judgmental looks.

Jamie:

You like R up, like an AI to like attend the meeting for you.

Rebecca:

You can do that now, apparently. You can have, there's like, there's like ai,

Jamie:

would love so much if I just came on one day and it was a IUI mean I couldn't, I'm sure I'd tell immediately and I'd just be like, oh gosh.

Rebecca:

It's smiling too

Jamie:

Yeah. Oh, you guys? Yeah,

Rebecca:

Oh, I'm sorry. This was an episode of things we don't like and we didn't even get to talk about my work enemies.

Jamie:

feel free. Please. Go ahead. List your work enemies.

Rebecca:

I can't

Jamie:

I can't.

Rebecca:

too

Jamie:

I can't.

Rebecca:

It's that's a whole, that's

Jamie:

Rebecca, this is your opportunity.

Rebecca:

that shit? No, when they pull that shit, when they go, that's for another meeting. I'm like, just say it now. Just say it now. Let's not have another meeting. Let's just get it all out now. Like maybe we need to have another meeting about that. I'm like, we don't. We don't. Just give me everything now. Please. Oh God. Please don't set up a follow up. A follow-up meeting is the worst.

Jamie:

Well, it's been real Jesus. Bye, marina.

Rebecca:

But this is, but I mean, in all fucking seriousness, this is the kind of emotional, like mental labor, like the invisible labor that goes into working, like having to, having to prep for then in the middle of the meetings, having to moderate yourself while also having to try to pay attention while also like trying to keep everything on track. While, I mean, it is, it is, it really does feel like you're putting on a show every fucking time. And I like what I do. Like, I like, I love being an editor actually, and I feel sometimes that I don't actually get to do, like, I get so excited when I get to edit something, which is sad. Like when I get to do my actual job that I'm hired

Jamie:

That's how I always felt.

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Jamie:

And also even write, even write something. But then that's when I get myself into trouble.

Rebecca:

and like, and today you're like, you're burnt out. I'm like, no, I'm fine. And I'm like, no, I'm actually not

Jamie:

you're not at all please.

Rebecca:

I am so pe I'm so peopled out and I'm just, and I know like this week was just,'cause we have like somebody new and all that, but it's just, these are the weeks that I'm like, oh my God, I just wanna go live in a hut in the woods and not talk to anybody ever again.

Jamie:

Or in the middle of nowhere, like on a farm with all your sister wives,

Rebecca:

And then if you wanna get really existential, like what is this meeting for? What, what, why are we here? There are kids being literally burned alive in Gaza and I'm sitting here listening to someone talk about their fucking golf weekend and who, what am I doing this for? We're just, and then you get like really spiraly and then, huh.

Jamie:

and then rinse, repeat, do it all over again.

Rebecca:

day.

Jamie:

Yeah. It's like an episode of Black Mirror, but it's your life.

Rebecca:

Oh my god.

Jamie:

Hey Tyler. I mean, seriously. I have, I have an existential crisis like every day. And

Rebecca:

yeah. Yeah, that's, yep, that's true.

Jamie:

but like

Rebecca:

truck yesterday with a gay flag and a trans flag on the other side, and it was like stolen gay valor because no self-respecting gay man would ever drive that truck in his entire fucking life. I just do need to say that, um, that is the one interesting thing that has happened to me this week is I saw that and it made me laugh very

Jamie:

excellent. Excellent. I saw like a mini, a mini one,

Rebecca:

things.

Jamie:

like, you know those children's cars?

Rebecca:

Yeah,

Jamie:

it was like that, but mini and it was at, yep. And it was at, um, monster Palooza. Like some kid was like riding around in it and I was like. First I said, Rob, why didn't you get me one of those? And then, uh, yeah,

Rebecca:

See, I get the same feeling as like, would you punch baby Hitler in the face? It's like, would you smash a child's cyber truck? Yes, I would. I would do regular size Hitler and

Jamie:

really don't wanna go to jail. so I didn't.

Rebecca:

for punching Hitler in the face. Oh, for

Jamie:

Right, right, right. I would go to jail for punching Hiller in the face for sure.

Rebecca:

You are a hero, Jamie.

Jamie:

Real here. I'm just, I'm still waiting on my Eagle video. I'm still just waiting on that.

Rebecca:

Oh, I know of this shit. I

Jamie:

I know, I know. I have to do

Rebecca:

I was in meetings. I'm sorry.

Jamie:

I'm so sorry. Too many meetings. I'm like, Rebecca, I'm here. You coming to pick me up from the airport? I was like needing, sorry.

Rebecca:

I do like text you during the day just to let, like, even if I can't respond like more than one sentence, I'm just like, I am alive. Like, so like, let you know,

Jamie:

Even if it's just like I'll send you something and you just like heart it or something. I'm like, okay,

Rebecca:

yes, I am in the meeting, but I need you to know that I, I do see it and appreciate you. I just cannot respond right now.

Jamie:

You're like, I'm alive, but uh, I'm not doing well. I gotta, they will have to go through me trans support shirt today. Oh cool. That's awesome. Nice cosmic.

Rebecca:

Very nice. What are you doing to celebrate Pride this month? Jamie,

Jamie:

I don't know. I am, I.

Rebecca:

I think if you are part of the LGBTQ uh, A plus Alliance, you should not get to go to meetings for all of June. You can just say it's homophobic. They make you go to meetings, be like, this is homophobic. And so you just get out of all meetings for June. Gay reparations. It's a great idea.

Jamie:

Yeah, I would

Rebecca:

I would pull that shit so fast. I'd be like, no, I can't. I can't. Okay. I can't go to this meeting. Sorry, I don't make the rules. It's June.

Jamie:

I don't make the rules this true. You're like, Target's merch this month says so. So I,

Rebecca:

Oh wait. I have to tell you this. My dad listened to the Star Trek dads episode and he really connected with that and I was like.

Jamie:

you really connected with that or was like, how dare you?

Rebecca:

No, and I was like, Hey, guess what? I have news for you.

Jamie:

You're like, here's Dr. Priest's information. Oh my God.

Rebecca:

I'm just wondering how many other people's parents heard that and were like, I it. That is so weird.

Jamie:

I I think my dad asked about like that title and I just, I told him, but I don't know if he listened to it, but

Rebecca:

Yeah. Yeah. He was like, it was just weird. I, I would always go and check to make sure the light switches were turned off multiple times and that the fridge door was closed and I was like, really? You don't say they look at like me and then his granddaughter and I'm like, that's so crazy.

Jamie:

Oh

Rebecca:

wonder where that came from.

Jamie:

Yeah, I did see

Rebecca:

Yes, it's the homophobic. Is this is homophobic is the L-G-B-T-Q equivalent of I have a boyfriend. Yes it is. This is homophobic.

Jamie:

so wrong, but also

Rebecca:

We should do that

Jamie:

like, I wanna be a part of this.

Rebecca:

yell, colonizer in a meeting or this is homophobic.

Jamie:

Uh, notice you weren't at that meeting, Rebecca. Is there a reason why

Rebecca:

is homophobic.

Jamie:

that meeting was so homophobic?

Rebecca:

Mm-hmm.

Jamie:

it was about?

Rebecca:

Yeah. I'm sorry. I don't wanna be damaged by that. I can't take on that emotional damage. Thank you. It's already my people's year or month, year, whatever. It's our year now.

Jamie:

I'm gonna start going colonizer. So Rebecca colonizer, oh, this is not how I thought this episode would go necessarily.

Rebecca:

I didn't, but I got really sad talking about this and like are we gotta like

Jamie:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

find the silver lining and the silver lining is if you are gay or any of that and it's June, you don't have to go to meetings. We said so we can write you a note

Jamie:

or any of that like, or any of that kind of thing? Those, that gay stuff.

Rebecca:

of that. You're not gay stuff.

Jamie:

I mean, I feel like we're done here. I don't, I feel like we've done the damage that we need to do.

Rebecca:

They took up my time, so I took up yours. Fuck you.

Jamie:

Yeah,

Rebecca:

Thanks for coming.

Jamie:

what the, that's what the title of this episode should be. They wasted my time, so I'm wasting yours in rebellion comma colonizers.

Rebecca:

right. If college age, me and college age youth saw what our jobs as adults are and we saw that 85% of them are sitting, listening to other people talk, we would have fucking killed ourselves so fast.

Jamie:

No.'cause I think, remember how you said early in your career you were like, like I'm missing out. I wanna be in meetings and in puller.

Rebecca:

No, no, no. This is before we started. I'm saying like when we were in school or like when we were like before we started working. If we saw into the future to today at 40-year-old us and it was like, Hey, 85% of your time is sitting in meetings listening to men talk. No, I would not want that for

Jamie:

I mean the, the man part or something. But I feel like back then I didn't know any better. So I would be like, oh, I just get to sit in meetings all day and not really do anything. Like, I'd be like, oh, okay. But I guess that's not true.'cause

Rebecca:

Yeah. I don't know.

Jamie:

We'll go. We'll go ahead and give you guys this five minutes back. Yeah.

Rebecca:

Listen, Jamie, when we start our own company, we will make the rules about meetings.

Jamie:

Yeah,

Rebecca:

Well, I mean like when we have people who work for us, who we can boss around and tell no to, we will make the rules about meetings and uh, we just won't have any.

Jamie:

yeah.

Rebecca:

And if they do call a meeting and it could have been an email, we will figure out an appropriate way to like lovingly but shame

Jamie:

Yeah, shame

Rebecca:

that they don't do

Jamie:

But in like a loving, funny way. Maybe

Rebecca:

but like also slightly passive, aggressive enough that they won't fucking do it again.

Jamie:

fucking nobody's gonna wanna work for us. I'm gonna need you to calm down. Yes. Funny. But also in a passive aggressive way to make them feel like shit.

Rebecca:

That hurts their feelings just enough.

Jamie:

That hurts their heart from the inside out. Great.

Rebecca:

God. This is my villain. This is my villain origin story. I think

Jamie:

meetings.

Rebecca:

the girl, the girl who had too many meetings and became a heinous bitch,

Jamie:

The girl who had too many meetings. That's also a good title. I'm gonna forget every one of these when I do titles.

Rebecca:

if, see if we were using fucking Google meat, it would remember

Jamie:

That's what we should have done. I should have thought to like, pull us on. And instead of our background, we're actually in like a Zoom call or Google meet call

Rebecca:

That would've been

Jamie:

missed opportunities y'all. Sorry about that.

Rebecca:

thank you for coming though. Thank you for coming. I, I realize not every week is like this. And I appreciate Emma's patience is

Jamie:

Patience is

Rebecca:

I slowly, no patience as I, I was gonna say, as I slowly unwind from a week of being like this,

Jamie:

all right. Love you guys. Bye.

Rebecca:

love you guys. Bye.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Jamie Young

Co-host
Head Shot

Rebecca McCracken

Co-host

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