Pri: 0:00

Yeah, it's fun because, my husband, he's gonna be really mad when he listens to this. He definitely has a DHD, but like vehemently denies it. but a very different

Jamie: 0:08

You're like, you just like run around the house, chasing him, being like, I'm diagnosing you. You're diagnosed

0:16

I am Jamie. And I'm Rebecca. Welcome to the Burnout Collective.

Jamie: 0:24

Hey, hey everybody.

Rebecca: 0:28

Hi. Welcome back,

Pri: 0:30

Hi.

Jamie: 0:30

What's up Pep Podcast day? This is, this is pre,

Rebecca: 0:36

doctor. Doctor.

Jamie: 0:38

sorry,

Pri: 0:39

Pre is fine.

Jamie: 0:40

Dr. Pre. No. but yeah, we're really excited to have. PreOn today, pre is a psychologist and she focuses, she's also an executive coach. and she focuses on neurodivergence, so autism, A-D-H-D-A-D-H-D. and we're gonna talk about a lot of things with her today. So welcome. Pre

Pri: 1:04

Thank you. I'm just

Jamie: 1:06

Yeah, like, we're so jazzed too. I did wanna get some housekeeping out of the way very quickly. So we were teasing that like we were gonna do something special'cause it's our birthday month. And, on I guess the 20, what did we say, the 29th?

Rebecca: 1:22

Mm-hmm.

Jamie: 1:23

on the 29th. So that's next week already. Wow. This month went by so fast. So on the 29th, I know. Okay, we're gonna do, we're gonna announce, a giveaway that we're gonna do. So we just set up our merch site on Redbubble. you can find it at our, on our link tree. And we're gonna give away some merch for our birthday. And it'll be like a raffle style where everybody will just like buy a ticket and, yeah, and it'll go on for a month. So like, you'll have a month to buy tickets, to have your chance to like win some burnout. Collective merch, t-shirts, stickers, stuff like that. Yeah, it's a giveaway. so yeah, we're very excited about that. But that's next week. we also wanted to thank you guys again for getting us to over 500 downloads. really appreciate your. Your follows, your listens, and your subscriptions, on iTunes, Spotify, and everything like that. so thank you guys so much. and last but not least, if you buy our gift, any two subs right now on Twitch, I think it's until the 25th, you can get a free month of like crunchy roll subscription. I'll just leave that there for anyone who feels like gifting some subs or subscribing themselves. And that's it.

Pri: 2:55

it.

Jamie: 2:56

Housekeeping done. We're house kept. Oops.

Rebecca: 3:01

yeah. Pree, do you just wanna start us in and talk a little bit about what you do? I know we've glossed over your specialties, but what you're focusing on right now.

Pri: 3:09

Sure. So I am a licensed psychologist, so I have a like private practice, a group practice, and at that, that one, called ASHA Mental Health. We're focused on, therapy services and assessment services. we, our kind of specialty areas are neurodivergence, especially adult neurodivergence. And then, multiculturally inclusive care. So, um, kind of important to be a safe space for all the minority identified folks out there. The folks with marginalized identities. So we see a lot of bipoc folks, L-G-B-T-Q, disabled, et cetera. so through that I do some therapy still, and then I do adult A DHD and autism assessments. And then I also have a coaching and consulting business where I'm like an A DHD and executive coach. So, um, that's focused on, again, usually like late diagnosed a DH ADHD or the folks that are high performing but burning out and like needing some support. So I have a group coaching program which is currently running, called Surviving to Thriving, which is like an eight week crash course in all things A DHD and reworking your identity and shame and all the fun stuff that comes with late diagnosis. and then I also do individual coaching, so got my hands full with those two.

Jamie: 4:25

yeah, you do, you do have your hands full. You're doing so much. But like we love everything you're doing and literally just happened to cross you on Instagram one day. And also she has a killer Instagram and TikTok, so follow her at, at Asha Coach. she also, what was it, the series you're doing what the

Pri: 4:44

Oh, why the fuck is this so hard?

Rebecca: 4:46

hard?

Jamie: 4:46

Yeah. Why the fuck is this so hard? which is great because it's like, why the fuck is this so hard when I'm neurodivergent? A lot of like, just tips from everything from like relationships to money to work. and she does a really good job.

Pri: 5:00

Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's been a, it's been a fun one to film. I've gotten a couple people upset with me for the name, but for the most part, everyone's like, yeah, why the fuck is this so hard? So

Jamie: 5:08

we voted for the name. We voted for

Pri: 5:10

did, you did vote for it?

Jamie: 5:14

that one.

Rebecca: 5:15

of the things I really appreciated is yesterday when we were chit-chatting a little bit, you mentioned that these, some of the adults you're working with are actually older. Like there's a couple, people in their, I think you said fifties or sixties, which has to be such a relief for them just to have someone who takes'em seriously and listens after all this time, especially if that wasn't something that was really encouraged as they were growing up.

Pri: 5:37

Yeah, definitely. There's, I was, pleasantly surprised by like kind of the eight at age spread that I, have in my group and just generally and my following.'cause it's, it's cool to be able to speak to like people in all parts of life, but I think especially for like humans alive today, like so many people are getting diagnosed later because we just have way more nuanced understandings of what a DHD and autism look like in adulthood that we just did not have even five, 10 years ago. and so all these folks are getting to, like, for the women, they're getting to like perimenopause, menopause. Their brains are like shortcircuiting and then they're like, what the fuck is going on? And that's when they're getting diagnosed. And so it's, it's like a, it's an intense like emotionally heavy process to go through learning all this, especially. in your fifties and sixties, like you've gone through so much of your life holding so many beliefs and ideas about you and your flaws and how you work and to kind of like rework all of that is like really meaningful stuff. I feel really honored that these folks are in this group and working through this stuff with me. I

Jamie: 6:38

Yeah, I know r Rebecca and I were also like late diagnosed and just like in our late thirties, it was just like, oh my God. Like how did I go so long? Just like trying to get around these seemingly like obstacles when I thought I was supposed to fit in this cookie cutter thing and have this schedule and be able to do X, Y, and Z like everybody else. And, I. Or like in a specific way, you know that everybody else does it, so I can't imagine. Yeah. Like getting it as late as like in your fifties, like

Pri: 7:13

I've had people sending me messages on Instagram in their like seventies being like, I'm in my seventies. I'm just realizing that this fits me. and that is like so touching that they're sharing that with me and that like, I get to play a role in that process. And also, like, I feel so sad for them because that's so long to believe that there's something wrong with you. and to like not be able to access all these like, resources and tools that would like totally be a game changer. So I, I, my little Instagram channel, which just like, or account or whatever the fuck it's called, has like exploded very quickly. And I'm so grateful because I have this like beautiful little positive corner of the internet. Like it's so rare to go through multiple posts and like almost never have a negative comment. I had one person make a negative comment about my cursing and like five people came at them like, have my back. But it just like feels really good, like in the world that we're in today to like have a little positive corner of the internet. It's been

Jamie: 8:09

that's great. I'm so glad there's not too many haters because it can

Pri: 8:13

very few and like the ones that don't like me are like really entertaining. Like, I really hate the voice filter you use. It's annoying. And I'm like, sorry bud. That's just me. I have to tell you.

Jamie: 8:25

Wait, they're saying like,

Rebecca: 8:27

thing to do. Oh yeah. Their favorite thing to do is talk to millennial women about their vocal fry. Like you have a PhD, you have a doctorate, you have whatever. It doesn't matter if you have vocal fry dead to them.

Pri: 8:38

Then watch the captions mute me. I don't care. I like,

Jamie: 8:42

I think you have a beautiful voice. So I think, yeah, everyone else can go fuck themselves.

Rebecca: 8:48

Yeah. I would also, especially just'cause like the current age we are in, I would love to dig a little bit more into, and I, I feel like this is something that I either didn't know about or people haven't really known about is perimenopause and A DHD symptoms like.

Pri: 9:04

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca: 9:04

Starting to getting wor starting to get worse or not being able to push through those anymore. especially with women who have like teens at this point. And you feel like your head's gonna explode and there's actually a reason for it and it's not because you're going crazy.

Pri: 9:17

Yeah. there's a good reason you didn't know it, and it's because researchers don't pour enough money into researching women. And so the studies researching this, like legitimately came out, I think this year or last year, like their brand fucking new. so yeah, that's why you didn't know about it, because nobody, nobody looked, we were just being hysterical and hormonal. but it's so common, so common for women to not get diagnosed, especially like today's Gen Xers, millennials, et cetera, like. Because up until like the nineties, there was like a belief that like women didn't really get a DH, ADHD girls didn't really get a DHD up until the two thousands. We believe that you grew out of it by adulthood. So adults don't have a DHD, all of which is like utter bs. And so when you get to perimenopause and menopause, what happens is what they're realizing is there's a link between estrogen and A DHD symptoms. And so when the estrogen drops in perimenopause, the A DH ADHD symptoms get like way, way worse. and so you already have the menopause symptoms and then you throw in like amped up A DHD. And so like the word finding goes through the roof, the short-term memory issues go through the roof. The like sense of general overwhelm goes through the roof. And because women historically have been misdiagnosed as just anxious, we get written off as again, like I said, being dramatic or being anxious or just I guess hormonal through perimenopause. And now they finally have research saying like, no, actually objectively your A DHD does get worse. And your brain does feel like it's short circuiting. It's like the number of women I have come in for assessments in that perimenopause menopause stage is like, it's actually the majority of the folks that I end up assessing because they all were like, I made it through and now I like, I just cannot, like I just can't function anymore. I don't know if I can upkeep my business. I don't know if I can manage my kiddos. Like I feel like I'm losing it.

Rebecca: 11:05

Yeah, the word finding and the sensory overload of like just being hot or itchy or uncomfortable all the time. So that made me already. Freaked out, but then just, I could not remember words for the life of me. It was driving me insane and I just, I was like, is this dementia? Is it Alzheimer's? And so then that just made everything else worse'cause I couldn't concentrate because I'm like, I'm obviously crazy. And it was just like this or Boris of, of just ratcheting up every symptom I've ever had. It was, it was nuts.

Pri: 11:36

Yeah. I have a lot of women come to me saying like, am I in cognitive decline? And. it's good to get that tested, especially if you've got like a family history. We wanna roll things out and people really have misunder, like underestimated misjudged. I just like combine my words. the like degree of impairment or impact that comes with unmanaged a DH, adhd, like, I think historically we've thought of like the little kid bouncing in a seat in the classroom and like when, when you translate that up to adulthood, it's, it's pretty impactful. Like it makes everything a fuck load harder at a chapter in life when you have so much in your brain, so much to manage. Especially if you're a woman and a mom or in a partnership and like, there's all the like societal, extra expectations around mental load and emotional labor. It, it just like all compounds on itself. Like for me, I didn't, I didn't get diagnosed till after my first kid and that was when I felt like my brain was imploding because I like the mental load of motherhood. Plus like, at that point I was in like upper leadership and a group practice and like just general life and. That hormone swing too. I, I was like, I am so overwhelmed, but like the word anxious didn't like quite fit. Right? Because I wasn't globally anxious. it was just like, if I could turn down the volume on all the things constantly pinging in my brain and like get a grasp on them, then I would be fine. But it was that sense of not being able to get a grasp on everything that was floating around that just like finally got my therapist to convince me like, Hey, maybe go get assessed.

Rebecca: 13:07

Are they looking at, are they looking at, or, I mean I say this knowing that the answer's gonna be no, but are they looking at a difference? What it makes for women in perimenopause who, with hormone replacement therapy and or a DH ADHD medication and or, therapy, are they looking at that at all to see like what's helpful or have there been any studies on like, what, what can help with that?

Pri: 13:28

I would love to think that they are, I don't. I don't know that I've seen that. logically it would make sense that hormone replacement stuff would help along with obviously the meds. just given that if it's a drop in estrogen that is impacting the symptoms and like mitigating for that should be helpful. but I don't, I don't actually know, this research is so freaking new that like I I, and like we now have an admin that won't let us research women. So I, I actually don't know. So sorry. I like didn't mean to poke the

Jamie: 14:00

No,

Pri: 14:01

political bear,

Jamie: 14:02

come up. I feel like it somehow comes up in every episode, which is like

Pri: 14:05

well, especially if you're talking about neurodivergence'cause like what are we doing?

Jamie: 14:11

I don't think I'm in perimenopause yet. I am like getting, I'm that age, but, I didn't even realize you were talking about just the drop in estrogen. Like for medical reasons I had to stop taking estrogen and I did notice everything getting, I can't even remember if that was like right before I got diagnosed. I think it was like around that same time. and I didn't realize like that could have been making it so much worse to where I got to where I finally, unfortunately it took, it took it that long to get so bad for me to be like, I have to seek something out for this. I.

Pri: 14:47

yeah, and that also explains why for many of us, like depending on where we are in our cycle, our A DH ADHD is worse too. And so if you're working with a psychiatrist who gets that, sometimes you'll get somebody who will give you like a, a booster dose for like when you're in your luteal phase, because that's when like your estrogen is lowest and your symptoms are worse. then a lot of other, most med providers are not super well versed on what all these things look like in women and how the hormones play in. And so then they're just like, it's just PMS or it's just PMDD and like write it off. but yeah, like if you've known, if you've ever been on your cycle and noticed that there was a particular week of the month that always, like your brain is off the rails beyond just like, higher emotional distress or whatever the stereotypes are of PMS. it it, like your A DHD probably was objectively worse during that time period.

Jamie: 15:36

yeah.

Rebecca: 15:37

Okay. Is there anything that, like, as far as it showing up in women, is there anything that's against what's considered the norm for A DHD? or are there surprising different ways that it shows up that people don't necessarily connect with a DHD?

Pri: 15:51

Yeah. I think like the main, there's like two levels to that question. One is a lot of people don't realize all the facets of A DHD, which is why I started. My series in the first place because just the executive function series, people were like, I had no idea that these were things that were impacted by A DHD. So generally, there's probably a lot for everybody with A DHD that they didn't realize was A DHD. I know I went through that and I have a fricking doctorate in clinical psych and I still was like, wait, what? yeah, so I would, I've got that caveat. And then for like women and girls, so girls tend to be, not always the case, but tend to be more on the inattentive side than the hyperactive side. So they're the daydreamers, the ones that are spacing out in class, the ones that are like in their own world, which again, like socially is fine, or more acceptable. So it doesn't get pinged the way that like a kid bouncing out of his chair gets pinged by teachers. it often, like for the ones that are hyperactive like me, it shows up as being really chatty and social. So like if you were a kiddo who got all the report cards saying like, what a delight to have, but also talks too much in class.

Jamie: 16:53

But also won't shut the hell up,

Pri: 16:55

Yep. Distracts her classmates by talking too much. Like that is a sign of hyperactivity, which again, like, it's just like written off as like really social. you also see, I'm trying to think of like, what else are some of those key differences? One of the reasons that it like also presents differently, even for the hyperactive girls is because we're socialized from such a young age to like be good, to take up less space to listen to, not make a fuss, to not be hard, to be easy. and so because of that, like we internalize the masking like way earlier than the boys do. so like when I talk to girls about like, fidgeting and like physical restlessness, it's always something small, or not always, but often, like it's clicking a pen, it's playing with a ring. It's not getting up outta my seat in the middle of the classroom. So again, like doesn't get flagged by teachers. And then like a lot of, a lot of the anxiety that comes with trying to mask and trying to like reign in a brain that you don't realize has legitimate reasons for not being reigned in then channels into like perfectionism, or high levels of like anxiety, which

Jamie: 18:03

Stop diagnosing us.

Pri: 18:05

I'm sorry,

Jamie: 18:06

us right now. Rebecca and I are

Pri: 18:08

to get, that tends to get noticed, but then it's noticed as anxiety. And so I would say like the most common misdiagnosis for women is anxiety because we get generally written off as being overly anxious. or like our emotion dysregulation, which comes with a DH, ADHD gets written off as just being dramatic. and so I think all the like stereotypes there, plus the socialization, plus the fact that we tend to lean a little more inattentive, which isn't. As visible, like all of that combines together into this like, perfect storm of why we've been missed. Plus the fact that like they didn't think adults could have it and they didn't really think women got it often. Like all of that together. And if you throw like autism in there, like the understanding of that is like even like even worse. And so if you were an autistic or A-A-D-H-D girl, like you were for sure gonna be missed because, again, like you couldn't concurrently diagnose a DH, ADHD and autism until I was in grad school. Like that's how recent it is that you can have both. which is wild because the stats on how many people have both are so high. and then like they for sure didn't think like women were autistic ever until like the two thousands. And so like Tpo Grandin is like such a big name because she was one of the first ones to like really be like, hi, clearly autistic here, let's talk about it. so I mean like those factors altogether, like every, everything gets missed because. if you're quiet or you're shy or like you are sensitive, like it just gets written off as like girly features. I don't know how else to put that, but

Jamie: 19:39

Yeah, lots of, is that also, I don't know, I keep thinking about how in my experience, every man I know falls asleep so easily, but as soon as my head hits the pillow, my brain is like, like overtime. Like, it's always overtime, but it's like over, over time. yeah, I

Pri: 19:58

that's, that's hyperactivity. So like, our hyperactivity is internalized, so it happens in our thoughts, it happens in our like, level of overwhelm and anxiety. So Yeah, it's like I, I know. So fun. So yeah, it's like our brain can't turn off. and that's usually like where we get so burnt out. And then a DH ADHD comes with sleep issues anyways, like a DHD disrupts, circadian rhythms and melatonin production. Anyways, you combine that with a. Brain that can't stop and like, yeah, no shit, we can't sleep.

Jamie: 20:27

Yeah.

Rebecca: 20:29

it was really, it was interesting too, like how, fuck, I just see this is what happens. I just, I had a thought and now it's gone.

Jamie: 20:36

all the time.

Pri: 20:37

You're in good company.

Rebecca: 20:40

nevermind.

Jamie: 20:40

We were talking about our brains not shutting off.

Rebecca: 20:44

Oh, I was gonna say, so as along with women too, like a lot of us have been self-medicating with energy, drinks, coffee, like all this other stuff too. and then as you get older and it gives you heartburn and you can't drink it anymore and just like, oh my God, what is happening? That was another thing that just, it's like, oh, something's wrong. No, it's just because you had the caffeine to like keep you going and keep you on the study level. So yeah, it's just been, it's been really interesting having everything kind of unravel

Pri: 21:12

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca: 21:13

midlife,

Pri: 21:15

Yeah. I feel like this is absolutely not. Diagnostic criteria at all. But I feel like it you, if we ask people like, can you drink coffee and go to bed? Like, that should be a pretty good indicator that like there's some A DH ADHD potentially happening there because like coffee's a stimulant, right? So that makes our brains function as they should. And I don't like my whole family. We drink a cup of coffee at 11 and then go to bed. Like that is just like part of the nighttime routine in my family. And we've always just been like, caffeine doesn't affect us. No, actually, like our brains are just really needing a stimulant.

Jamie: 21:46

That's crazy. That's

Pri: 21:47

And the caffeine was making us like partially functional. Obviously everyone's brain is different. Everybody's like, body chemistry works differently. So that's not like a global

Jamie: 21:54

never thought of that though.'cause I know so many people who are like, no, it doesn't affect me. It doesn't affect me. You

Pri: 21:58

I would love to do a study on like how many of the people that say it doesn't affect them have a DHD. Because I think that's just like, that's what kicks our brain on and like.

Rebecca: 22:08

they used to give kids coffee like in elementary school when they were little, like before they had, like legitimately, my friend was a teacher's aid in the nineties and she would give the a DH ADHD kids like a cup of coffee in the mornings to just kinda even'em out.

Pri: 22:21

Yeah, it just like, it's a shortcut way to kick your brain on,

Jamie: 22:26

My seventh,

Pri: 22:27

so many of us drink so many energy drinks, like you said, or too many cups of coffee in a day

Jamie: 22:31

my seventh grade teacher used to send to me and my friend,'cause like we were like restless during last period. And so she used to just be like, go run around the block. And I don't think she was supposed to do that at all, but she would literally just say, go run around the block. And we would go run around the block.

Pri: 22:46

And it was probably super regulating. Yeah.

Jamie: 22:48

yeah, it was great. It was wonderful. I feel like yeah, she was making accommodations for us and like, I didn't even realize it.

Pri: 22:56

that's why I know like, and this totally varies by school district and school, but like more schools are allowing for kids to like sit on bouncy balls instead of sitting on like chairs or like have the little rubber bands under their feet so they can wiggle and it. It makes so much sense because it just, a little bit of movement can keep your brain on track in a really significant way and that's such an easy accommodation to make, to help kiddos like stay present and get the wiggles out. Like my kid could not sit still if his life offended on it.

Rebecca: 23:23

no, no. My daughter's school has like standing desks and wiggle chairs, and they have like a sensory room. And most of our kids. There are like on five oh fours or IEPs, but they've really, the focus they get outta these kids where before they were quote like in trouble or the bad kids is because they're able to just get it out and, and focus.

Pri: 23:46

Yeah, I mean I don't like if you've ever paced when you're talking on the phone'cause it helps you listen.

Jamie: 23:50

always.

Pri: 23:51

so many of us listen better when we're in movement and can stay like focused on what we're doing when we're like, our hands are occupied or our bodies are occupied. so yeah, it seems like silly to force kids to sit. And dust plus, like nobody who's five can sit still. Like that's just an absurd expectation anyways.

Jamie: 24:08

For real.

Pri: 24:09

yeah,

Rebecca: 24:11

Have a lot of the people who's come to you, like have they had their kids diagnosed first and then been like, oh, by the way.

Pri: 24:17

yeah. a lot of folks both like that show up for assessment and that are just like following on Instagram and commenting and things. it's often my kid got diagnosed and then as I was reading about it or as they were tested, I realized that I had all the same stuff. And a lot of times,

Rebecca: 24:33

Yeah.

Pri: 24:35

like part of why kids, or like these adults are getting diagnosed later too is'cause like their parents had a DHD or were autistic and didn't flag it as different because nobody flagged them as being different and therefore. when their kid does whatever quirky thing they do or whatever, a DH ADHD like thing they do, they're just like, I was just like that. That's just kids being kids. And so like, it becomes like a generational stack of like everybody writing off the stuff because they're just like the generation above not realizing that like, Hey, all of you guys are neurodivergent welcome. So

Jamie: 25:10

I would, I would love, I would love for you to, diagnose my parents. Like that would be awesome. I, yeah.

Pri: 25:17

I finally gotten my dad to the stage where he's like, maybe I'm like a little bit a DHD. And I'm like, Uhhuh.

Rebecca: 25:25

all the Star Trek dads out there are like suddenly on the defense,

Jamie: 25:29

My dad's a Star Trek dad.

Rebecca: 25:32

so is mine.

Pri: 25:33

Yeah.

Jamie: 25:34

Oh

Pri: 25:34

But yeah, so many people are like, I see so much of myself in my kid and it was easier to get my kid. Identified and diag know because teachers now are more informed, doctors now are more informed. And like, so much of my life now makes sense. Watching it through my kid.

Jamie: 25:50

they still make it so difficult though, too for, adults to get diagnoses like.

Pri: 25:55

Yes. Because so many people are bad at it. I'm being honest. Like I get in like a good online fight with a assessor at least once a week, if not more over like stupid shit. Like if you have a job, you can't have a DHD. If you manage to get married and keep a career, you can't have a DHD. if you make eye contact, you can't be autistic. you did small talk, therefore you can't be neurodivergent and like all this, it's just like dead wrong. But I can attest to our training not being up to date. So therefore it makes sense that all the, unless you've gone and sought out the information yourself, like of course you're not up to date.

Rebecca: 26:35

Didn't you say you had like a day or like, like a week's worth of education on Neurodivergence for your whole schooling?

Pri: 26:41

Yeah, A week would've been really ju it was like an hour of a class.

Jamie: 26:44

A week would've been generous. Fuck.

Pri: 26:47

Let me, put the caveat that like, I didn't specialize in child and adolescent and I'm guessing they probably got more, I was more a general psych, but No, it was like one, we had like a class in our first year that went through the DSM and went through all the diagnoses and I think like we spent an hour on neuro mental stuff, maybe two. and that was it. And it was like in reference to kiddos, like it wasn't in reference to adults, which is like how I made it through grad school and got my degree and did not recognize that I had a DHD because I had like no clear picture of what that looks like, which is so sad.

Rebecca: 27:23

your co, in your coaching, like do you work on like, is there like an acceptance? Like is there like, no, I can't be here. Like do people come to accept it or is it more like a relief or are they just in denial when they get their diagnosis? Like how have people reacted?

Pri: 27:37

Yes. So

Rebecca: 27:38

Okay,

Pri: 27:39

it's all, it's all the above. I think there's relief in that. Like there's an explanation for why things are hard. There's worry that you're making it up or faking it because, what if I'm just being dramatic? What if I just lied about it? Is it, what if it's really not that hard? there's grief over like, what could things have looked like if I had known this sooner? There's anger over all the people that missed it along the way. sometimes when you start meds too, you go through another mini cycle of that because if you start the meds and they work for you and your brain turns on and then you're like, what the fuck? I could have felt this way forever. And also there's a whole subset of humans that get to feel this way without having to take meds. Like, what is this? we're actually just talking about that in my coaching program today. So it's, it's like a very emotional process. And like in our group coaching program, I start with like, our first one is just kinda like overlay of like, let's understand what A DHD is. Let's understand parts of the brain. Let's understand generally what executive function is. And like our second week is all about like shame and rewriting your inner narrative because I don't think you can work on implementing new schedules for yourself or advocating for stuff at work or any of those other pieces if you're still like drowning in the shame over what's hard for you. so we do like a whole like weak deep dive on. Where does shame come from? Why do you have such a hard time with self-trust? Like let's learn to rewrite those narratives and like put a different explanation for why you've done the things that you've done.

Jamie: 29:02

That's such a big part. That's such a big part of it too, is the shame. Yeah, I,

Pri: 29:07

Yeah. I've yet to meet an A DH ADHD that didn't internalize some of that.

Rebecca: 29:13

that's gotta be nice to just have someone walk you through it and holding your hand. And just, can you talk more about like your coaching, you said it's eight weeks. Can you take us through sort of like what you do and what you're working on? Is it like just self-acceptance or learning how to accommodate.

Pri: 29:27

Yeah, so it is like I said, it's an eight week crash course, and I'm actually getting feedback from everybody on there. That eight is too short. so maybe I'll adjust it for future cohorts. But, each week we have a different like topic area that we're diving into. week one was like understanding your DHD brain. That's where we talked about like the neurochemistry of it, our motivation systems, our executive functions, et cetera. The second week was rewriting your narrative. The third week, which is what we're in right now, was, time and productivity and like how to manage all your to-do lists, how to manage time, why it's so hard for you. To figure out how to do your schedule, things like that. And so each week we, I teach for an hour, so I have like course content. I usually have a couple like mini prerecorded lessons that are like 10, 15 minutes, like go deeper into certain topics. and then I do a group coaching call like later in the week where anybody that's getting stuck on anything can like raise their hand and get coached on whatever they're wrestling with that week. and then there's a workbook too, but I know who my audience is, so I'm guessing out of the like 13 people I have one to two have opened the workbook. but there

Jamie: 30:28

be like a surprise in there or something like,

Pri: 30:30

There should be, I just like to remind everybody that like you have access to all these recordings forever. You've got access to these workbooks forever. Like if now is not the time, like you're too flooded or there's too much going on, that's okay. Like this is one of those spaces where you can't do it wrong because you've spent your whole life telling yourself you're doing it wrong. so if you've never crack a workbook, you've still done it, right? It just like that wasn't the tool you needed right now. And that's fine. so there's also like, my favorite part of it is, the community space that we have. So I'm on circle. I don't know if you guys are familiar with that, but, it's kind of like if, slack and Facebook had a baby. and so it's and like added in like courses. So it's just like one kind of

Jamie: 31:11

don't give meta any more ideas. I'm just kidding.

Pri: 31:14

it's true. you didn't hear any of that. but there's like different discussion boards. So there's places where they can post what they wanna be working on for accountability. There's places to like ask questions about the call content. There's places to share wins. and so it's fun to see people like connect with each other and relate to each other.'cause even if you don't share your own stuff, you're probably gonna hear something from somebody else that sounds familiar and is really validating.

Rebecca: 31:38

Yeah. Are, are you talking about like making your own accommodations at work at all? Are you talking about asking for accommodations at work or like learning how to work with your own brain?

Pri: 31:48

Yeah. Next week's, module is actually all about like work, and figuring out what parts of work are hard and why, and then what you want to do with it. we, yes, we talk about like what kinds of accommodations could be available to you, which a lot of times. People don't realize, like you don't actually have to officially have a diagnosis to ask for accommodations. A lot of workplaces don't require you to disclose a diagnosis. and then if you do deci disclose a diagnosis, like they have to work with you within like reasonable means. Granted, every company gets to decide what counts as reasonable. but we are gonna be talking about like, what are some of the ways that you can talk to your boss that doesn't like set off red flags or that like advocates for yourself without, selling yourself short. Because like, I can do the thing, I just can't do the thing the way that you just asked me to do it. Or I can do it the way you asked me, but it won't be as good as if I do it my way. so using phrasing like, I work best when I'm most successful. I could see this going really well if, and then, yeah, there's lots of creative ways to think about accommodations. Like it could be from, the big ones people ask for, like being able to work remotely. Or having flex time on like when they arrive and when they leave.'cause a DH ADHD is, if you've got a workplace that like starts at the hour on the dot, that's often tough for us. There's, there is a good subset of folks that can do that, that it can be on time and get their asses there. I am not one of them. so yeah, if I had a job where I got fired for being a minute late, I would be fired so fast.

Jamie: 33:14

If my friends could fire me for being a minute late like I would be, I would've no friends. Rebecca touchy dare look like that. She's like,

Pri: 33:24

I have a friend that like legitimately gives me the wrong start time because they've learned that like, I will not show up. At the time that's stated. And part of that I think is cultural. Cultural. I'm gonna blame it because my whole family runs late, which we always called Indian standard time because like if you invite Indians over for dinner at eight, they will be there at 10. And that's like pretty culturally normative. So either we're all A DHD or like the two play together really well. But

Jamie: 33:50

That's awesome.

Pri: 33:52

yeah, like I vividly remember the first time I had my own birthday party and it was like with my friends from school. I'm from suburban Virginia, so like all white. And I think I told everybody the party was at three and like people showed up at three and I was so fucking confused because like my hair was wet, I wasn't in my dress. I was like, what are you doing here? And it's because it was three and white people show up at three. When you say three, like

Jamie: 34:16

Unless they're a DHD.

Pri: 34:18

unless they're a D, HD, which apparently nobody's parents were. but

Jamie: 34:22

Yeah.

Pri: 34:23

it was like such a moment of cultural shock. I got way off course with that. What were we talking about? Accommodations? so

Rebecca: 34:30

about like putting a target on your back.

Jamie: 34:31

And does that, yeah, we talk about that too with the new admin. It's like, I don't know, do you give like different advice now to people?

Rebecca: 34:40

Oh yeah,

Pri: 34:41

I, I do for sure. When it comes to autism diagnoses, we're talking a lot more actively around like, what are we documenting? What goes in your chart? What does not, and what are the risks of, of that?

Jamie: 34:56

Yeah.

Pri: 34:58

which like, yeah, it is bonkers that we have to have that conversation that way. But, same with in workplaces. what's really hard, and anybody who's neuro divergent knows this from felt experience, like you can put a target on your back. Like you could be very capable and because of societal misconceptions and biases and shit like. If you say the wrong diagnosis per hr, like they'll figure out how to get rid of you. And so you have to be careful depending on your workplace. so that's why like, I think it's important to be really thoughtful around whether you want to disclose, or whether you can make tweaks for yourself or advocate for tweaks with like your boss without having to share a diagnosis or get it put in your HR file or whatever. And it's so shitty that we live in a world that we have to think that way. And I hope that that changes'cause I see younger generations doing better with Neurodivergence, but yeah, it's not always safe for people, especially if you're multiply marginalized, if you're, L-G-B-T-Q, if you're bipoc, like, it's like triple targets on your back, you know? So being really mindful of that.

Rebecca: 36:05

I, I had to because I was tired of at work, everyone thinking I was a giant fucking bitch,

Pri: 36:11

Hmm.

Rebecca: 36:13

just because in meetings my face would just listening. I would just be listening and they would just think I was being, or when I would say something and it was like X, Y, and Z and there wasn't, you know. A vocal smiley face or an exclamation point attached to it. and it was just so isolating. But at the same time, it depends on who you tell.'cause then you get handled with like kid gloves or, you know, get talked down to. So it's, it's a lose lose situation sometimes times.

Jamie: 36:43

sometimes it is. Yeah.

Pri: 36:45

I like recently went to a training on like writing accommodation letters, like how to do it better effectively and how to still be like neurodiversity affirming and it's a fine line, right?'cause you've gotta demonstrate that this person is struggling. But then, like, I am very passionate about being neuro neurodiversity affirming. And so it feels like very counter to my intuition to write out what's hard, or like what somebody is struggling with. and Yeah, like knowing the audience that you're writing for though. But like you can write letters that say, you know, I have this diagnosis. This is actually what this means. This is not what it means. It doesn't mean I can't do this job. It doesn't mean that I don't have the requisite skills. It doesn't mean that I don't care about these things. What it does mean is that like I communicate differently or, I need a lot more structure for my brain to be able to like meet expectations. And so you can speak to both when you write a letter to HR for accommodations or things like that. And part of my job as a psychologist and then also as a coach is like helping figure people figure out like what they want to advocate for and how, versus what they wanna do for themselves. Like, do you just wanna have your own set of rules and scaffolding and accountability and support that's from your own personal life that still helps you out in the workspace?

Jamie: 38:00

Yeah. I do wanna take a second to go to chat if that's okay. first of all, apparently like everybody wants you to diagnose them, so except, except my mother who is actually here and was like, no, thank you. boomers, cosmic said society has put so much stigma on taking medicine that the amount of people who intentionally go undiagnosed is staggering. That's very true. tuck says so true. Time is so hard, and I would love to read more studies of how A DHD is expressed or seen culturally. Yeah.

Pri: 38:34

Yeah. I dunno what studies to direct you towards, but I know from like my reading and learning that like there's different. There's different expressions of A DHD and then also different levels of like social acceptance of those kinds of struggles combined with like just general knowledge base. So for example, Indians culturally, like are catching up on mental health, but like generally haven't been stellar about considering it as a real thing or like understanding it. And so the tendency to operate off really old stereotypes and then hold a lot of judgment is pretty high. that being said, that I see that shifting. I see it shifting in my family. I see it shifting in like the Indians that reach out to me online, like trying to get a better understanding of it. But it's easy to write off kids who are having like a sensory meltdown as being like naughty kids. because like compliance is so heavy in that culture. and so it's easy to write'em off as like being misbehaved, being naughty, being bad in some way, or like parents that are like too lax versus like, Hey, this kid is like. Overstimulated, it's too loud. They're feeling hot and they're melting down. Like that is not, that's not the same thing. Or, a kid not listening, being read as like, just being disrespectful versus like, they cannot attend to what you're saying when there's this much other stuff attract, like getting their attention.

Jamie: 39:53

I don't have authority issues. It's just my, I'm just kidding.

Pri: 39:57

I mean you might also, but,

Jamie: 39:59

Preach, please, please.

Pri: 40:04

but yeah, I think like everybody reads it through like cultural lenses and I think the expressions show up through cultural lenses. So you'll see in cultures where like propriety is really important and respect is really important. Like you're gonna have a lot more of the internalized experience or the smaller actions versus the bigger behaviors. there's gonna be different levels of comfort about talking about it and different meanings attributed to it. Yeah, I don't have like a set of studies to direct you towards, but I know that there's a lot out there about really all of mental health. and then with Neurodivergence being one that we're like relatively recent and new on learning more about, like, it makes sense that it hasn't kind of proliferated, proliferated everywhere. Pretend I can speak.

Jamie: 40:48

Yeah. manic said, building one's scaffolding for success is so vital. I have various ways of keeping my attention issues at bay, and it gives the surface appearance that I'm constantly distracted. Oh, it gives appearance that you're distracted,

Pri: 41:04

Oh, interesting.

Jamie: 41:05

huh?

Pri: 41:07

I wonder if that's like around and you can comment. but like what I was saying, when you really need to like wiggle or move around or, not make eye contact so you can listen better, things like that that could get read as,

Jamie: 41:21

yeah, yeah, for sure. I.

Rebecca: 41:26

Have you found that working with adults, late diagnosed, have you found that that's changed the way you parent at all with your own kids? Like has it made you given you more empathy or like changed anything for you as a parent? I.

Pri: 41:40

Oh, yes. But like everything changes everything as a parent by the minute. so yes, because I have way more compassion for the same like behaviors and things that I see in my kiddos. So my son is autistic, he's also for sure A DHD, but too young to be diagnosed yet. but I like, I think through like what were the things that, like, I found so life changing to learn in adulthood that these folks that I'm talking to are finding so life changing, to learn in adulthood and like, how do I teach my kid that younger? So it's not life changing or it's life changing, like in a. Positive way, not like in a grief filled way. we also, and this, I don't know if this is just because of the neurodivergence or if this is just because I'm a psychologist, so my kids are screwed. But we talk a lot about feelings. we talk a lot about, what we need to regulate, which, like, I know I didn't grow up with, I don't think most people in our generation grew up with a ton of that. so my little guy, he is four and like he will tell you like, I need some space. or I'm feeling really sad right now. and my favorite phase was when he would say he was disappeared by which he meant disappointed. but he would be like, mom, I'm disappeared.

Jamie: 42:50

I am not mad. I'm just disappeared, mom. Aw,

Pri: 42:52

yeah. and even things like I. I don't know where he got this from and it like killed me the first time I heard it. But like when I get grumpy and I'll name like, Hey, I'm feeling frustrated. And he'll go, do you still love me? And I say like, yes, of course. Like there is nothing that will make me not love you. And then he goes, so you can love me when you're grumpy. And I was like, absolutely. And he's like, and I can love you when I'm grumpy. And I like, yes you can. But like I implicitly know that as an adult, I don't think I like implicitly knew that as a kid. Like that's an easy thing to conflate. And so it's just, and again, I don't know whether to attribute that to working with Neurodivergence or whether to attribute that to just being a shrink and therefore being all in my fields.

Rebecca: 43:33

what the perfection, what the perfectionism. When you have a parent say, I'm disappointed. That's like, oh, then I am not perfect and not love. So like the fact that you are being like one is not contingent on the other so early, especially for no divergent kid, I'm telling you probably means the world. Like

Jamie: 43:52

Oh, truly.

Rebecca: 43:53

helpful.

Jamie: 43:54

Yeah.

Pri: 43:54

I also like. I'm sure someday I will say it, I have not yet said that I'm disappointed because as an Indian kid, like there is no worse thing to hear than disappointed. Like, you could tell me you're mad at me all day, but if you tell me you're disappointed, I'm gonna like crumble. So I don't think I've actually told him that. I'm sure he picked that up from like, I don't know, miss Rachel or something. But like, yeah, it, I, I use grumpy and frustrated a lot though because it is very grumpy and frustrating to have a 4-year-old and a 2-year-old that won't get out the door in the morning.

Rebecca: 44:25

Oh, no,

Jamie: 44:26

yeah. Two, two young children, period. It's just,

Pri: 44:30

Yes. And they're just like, have you guys, I don't know how many non-parents have seen this, but like Zootopia, have you seen the animated movie? So there's a scene where they go to the DMV and it's literal slots working at the DMV, and they're moving like. At negative speed and like, that's what it feels like when you tell your kids like, okay, it's time to go. We're late. And they're like, yes, here we go.

Rebecca: 44:53

And they have to do it themselves. You can't do it for them. You can't do it fast either.'cause it has to be them.

Pri: 45:00

yes.

Rebecca: 45:00

God help you,

Pri: 45:02

Yeah. My, my almost 2-year-old is like in the, I can do it myself, but also do it for me, but also not that. And so it's like, I need shoes, but you can't put them on my feet. But then I can't put them on my feet, so we're just gonna sit here and cry face.

Jamie: 45:18

oh God. Your kids are actually the same, the exact same ages as my niece and nephew. So that's Yeah.

Pri: 45:26

fun. it's a very fun age, but there's a lot of frustration.

Jamie: 45:31

Yeah.

Pri: 45:32

So my kid ask that question a lot.

Jamie: 45:36

what my, what my nephew used to say that we always thought was so funny, he doesn't say this anymore. It was like when he was like two and three, I think is, when someone would say something that he didn't like or like tell him to do something that he didn't want to do, he would be, he would just look at you and go, you are not saying any words, basically. I think like, mm, I don't understand you. Like definitely understood, but you're not saying words.

Pri: 46:04

Oh, my kid will be like, what did you say? What did you say? Or just like, straight up, ignore me. Like,

Jamie: 46:10

yeah,

Pri: 46:11

yep. I, I am just talking to a wall.

Jamie: 46:14

my nephew does that.

Rebecca: 46:15

no

Pri: 46:15

yeah.

Rebecca: 46:15

As far as boundaries go, have, have, has, have you found like doing this work, have you found that like you've had to set different boundaries or has this helped you like create better boundaries between, I don't know, just like at work or in your personal life, or advocate for yourself or. there anything around that?

Pri: 46:33

That's a good question. I mean, I think early on in being a therapist, you have to get good with your boundaries'cause it's so easy to take work home. and that always, like, that gets fuzzy from time to time. I think it, I think I, I've fudged all the boundaries on everything going into the neuro world because it started with me learning about myself and me learning about my kid, and then I just channeled it all, all the learning and the hyper focus into my practice. so I do, I'm sure it drives my husband nuts when I go into like, actually as a psychologist, here's the thing that I know more than you, and like,

Jamie: 47:08

No, you, you mansplain to your husband as much as you want. Brie, please. We need more women Splaining. Sorry.

Pri: 47:17

I love that women's planning. but at the same time, like he is a lovely human and like appreciates learning. And so as long as, you know, I'm not big a dick about it, most of the time he like is also asking like, what do I do with this? Or what does this mean? Or, debating the difference between a tantrum and a meltdown or things like that. I think right now my boundaries are pretty fuzzy when it comes to like all the things I'm learning and applying at work and then home. But in terms of clients like that, I've, it's like habit at this point to, not bring too much of that stuff home.

Rebecca: 47:52

And I'm sorry, I think I asked a question wrong. I, I, and I didn't mean boundaries, I meant more just so you know, like, so instead of my husband just thinking I'm a gigantic fucking bitch, now I'm able to say, actually, when you change the plans, it's an unexpected change and I didn't like it and now my whole day is ruined because I just like being able to like verbalize and explain why Yes, sorry.

Pri: 48:12

Yeah, it's fun because, my husband, he's gonna be really mad when he listens to this. He definitely has a DHD, but like vehemently denies it. but a very different

Jamie: 48:21

You're like, you just like run around the house, chasing him, being like, I'm diagnosing you. You're diagnosed

Pri: 48:27

Well, it was more just like I started doing assessments and would just like giggle as I was asking questions because like all of them fit. so he was, and he was my Guinea pig when I was like learning some of the new software and stuff. But, he's a very different flavor of A DHD than me. Like I am very combined slash mostly hyperactive. And he is like inattentive space. Cadet, like loses stuff all the time and zones out all the time and starts a sentence and doesn't finish it and that sort of thing. But like I've still had to do a lot of the explaining because just'cause we both have a DH ADHD doesn't mean, like I said, we don't have the same flavor of A DHD. So the things I struggle with are not the things he struggles with. Like he's fine with time. I live in a time warp and so it drives him bonkers that I'm always late. But now we realize like, oh, time blindness actually is a thing. My brain actually does do time differently. And so he has started giving me more reminders, which I experienced as helpful, of like, okay, we need to leave in an hour. I think you should start to get ready. And I'll be like, nah, it's not fine. And then he'll be like, okay, it's now 45 minutes and you definitely need to go get ready. Like, or like, we're gonna leave in like 10 minutes. Which I think if I hadn't been so in tune with the fact that I'm so bad at this, like could get experienced as infantilizing or annoying, but because I know

Rebecca: 49:45

you're not my dad.

Pri: 49:46

well, like, I know I'm so bad at it, and I actually find it helpful. And he's, he's asked too of like, is this helpful? So that's good too.

Jamie: 49:54

my partner

Pri: 49:55

we just like, yeah, sometimes we just need them to be our, like, our little executive function setter.

Jamie: 50:00

We call it the time police. Yeah,

Pri: 50:02

I love that. But yeah, I think I, both like explained to him and understand my reactions a little bit better. Like when I get really overstimulated, this is a good one. Like with my kiddos at, by the end of the day, after I've been working all day and then I'm getting home and I'm trying to make dinner and they want the TV on and there's two toddlers that are like losing their shit.'cause I just get home from school and like my husband's watching something on his phone, like my brain feels like it's gonna explode and I. Lose my temper because I'm like so overstimulated. And so now I've got language for that. And so I can explain that to him of like, I am just really overstimulated, so I'm gonna put my headphones in and I'm gonna listen to something and I'm gonna not be mom for a little while. And so I'll listen to something while I cook dinner, for example. And that way I've drowned out all the other noise and I can reregulate and I don't have to like be part of the circus. and so I both like feel nicer to myself because I get that I'm not frustrated because I have zero frustration tolerance. I'm like frustrated'cause I'm overstimulated. and then my husband like also gets it as like, I'm not trying to tag out on parenting. I just, like,

Rebecca: 51:02

Right.

Pri: 51:02

my brain is imploding. which is not, I don't think he like ever gets overstimulated. so it's definitely a foreign experience to him.

Jamie: 51:11

Of course not.

Rebecca: 51:12

Having the language is, so one of the biggest fights we ever had is the first time we went on vacation and it was to the Oregon coast, which I'd never been. And he was so excited and we're, we're making our way, but like the Kar trip was taking forever. And I'm like, what the fuck is happening? And he is like, oh, I just thought, we take the scenic route because he wanted to show me everything and I lost my fucking mind. And I was like, we could have been there hours ago because we didn't get from point A to point B. And no one told me that we were meandering. And it was just like, again,

Jamie: 51:44

Rebecca hates meandering anyway.

Rebecca: 51:47

a giant fucking bitch was act actually like, oh, we have deviated. No one told me about this plan and this is inefficient. So like

Pri: 51:55

Just

Rebecca: 51:55

being able to verbalize that now? Yes. Yeah. Is so much better. And I'm still a bitch, but like a bitch with closed captions.

Pri: 52:04

I.

Jamie: 52:06

I am clipping this, by the way. I am gonna clip it

Pri: 52:08

that, yeah, for sure. That's amazing. yeah, I think, this is like part of my, my last two episodes or last two little videos on Instagram were about like relationships. And I had 1,000,000,001 people being like, can you do mixed neurotype? Can you do a DH, adhd, DH, adhd, can you do a DH, adhd, autism? Can you do a DH, adhd, A DHD? And I'm like, okay. So like some of this stuff is actually universal and like 0.1 is come up with your own language. Like figure out the communication and like your own way of naming what's happening with each other so that you can again understand like we have this ridiculous notion in our like pop cultural world that like, if your partner loves you, they should intuitively know what you need or they should know what you're thinking. And that's just not accurate. Humans fucking suck at reading minds. even those of us that are trained to like really understand other people. And so like. If you can ditch the idea that like your partner should understand and come up with like shared language around what is happening for you, it just opens up a whole new like realm of connection and a realm of navigating minus conflict or conflict without it exploding that I think like a lot of couples are missing because they just don't have the words, like you said.

Rebecca: 53:20

Yeah. Can I tell you the meanest thing he ever said to me in our entire marriage in almost 20 years?

Pri: 53:25

Oof. Okay.

Rebecca: 53:26

I don't think you really care that much about being organized.

Jamie: 53:31

Actually, hang on. You said that to me this year.

Rebecca: 53:37

listen, listen.

Jamie: 53:43

Wow. Rob, I'm on. Rob, I'm on your side. Rob, I'm on your side. I'm on your side, Rob.

Rebecca: 53:50

But it would just, like, I'd leave cabinets open or like I'd start organizing something and just forget. And it's just like, I, I don't mean to leave it there, I just forgot about it. And I really do care. And I do try, but like, it's just not gonna, it's not gonna work. So once we agree that these things just aren't gonna happen, then it's better to be married. but that was the meanest fucking thing he's ever said. And I'm like, I really do care. And, sorry, Jamie, as, as I'm saying this out loud, I think I did say that to

Jamie: 54:16

You did say that to me and I was so offended.

Rebecca: 54:20

I know, I'm sorry.

Jamie: 54:21

This is therapy now. So

Pri: 54:22

it is. It is a like good sign that the meatus thing your partner has said to you is, that says a lot about your relationship. But yeah, I

Jamie: 54:35

guys are doing great.

Pri: 54:36

doing great. it's so hard'cause like A DHD and especially A DHD has so many like contradictions like. We need, we need structure. We don't have the executive function to create structure. We need an organization, but like we need to also see everything to know that it exists. So like, like in my house, my husband and I both like get so dysregulated when everything is like cluttered and disastrous because two toddlers, two A DHD and also like I can tell you what he ate for every meal and where he ate it because like the peanut butter and the jelly and the bread are out where he made the sandwiches for the kids and like the coffee beans are still like out from when he made the coffee and the coffee cup is wherever he sat and drank the coffee. And it's just because like outta sight outta mind and like everything is always out. so it's immediately very cluttered. And so it's this horrible mix of like, I really want it to be organized and. Clear and like not cluttered. And also when I do that, I forget everything. And so I just need to leave things out or I forget to put them away. And so it just is like a constant, yo-yo

Rebecca: 55:45

100%.

Jamie: 55:46

I don't know. It sounds like, somebody's drinking a lot of coffee, to compensate for undiagnosed A DHD,

Pri: 55:53

somebody's drinking a lot of coffee.

Jamie: 55:56

Mr. Dr. Pre.

Pri: 55:58

Yes.

Rebecca: 55:59

I don't, I haven't heard a lot of people talk about like, those contraindications within like a DH, ADHD or autism. Like I don't hear that a lot, like those two things being at, at odds with, but still existing. Like, that's not something I see covered a lot at all actually.

Pri: 56:14

Yeah. I think you're,

Rebecca: 56:15

it up.

Pri: 56:16

I think you're totally right, especially if like for Audi ADHDers, like the autistic side of you and the A DH ADHD side of you are often like diametrically opposed. And that can be really hard to, to navigate like, Wanting spontaneity, but also needing like a plan to feel regulated and like those two being at odds or like both seeking and avoiding stimulation at the same time, or like really wanting to connect with people socially, but then also being utterly drained by it. And so it's a lot of like bouncing act between, between those two things. And yeah, even with an A DH, adhd, like we know what we need and we often rebel against what we need, or like, we, like cannot make the thing that we need, but we know that we need it. And so it just feels like very out of reach. And so I think like, yeah, I think all of neuro divergence is full. Those kinds of

Rebecca: 57:03

And if you're not diagnosed, going to a psychiatrist without the diagnosis, who's not well versed in this, leads to so many diagnoses of like, you must be depressed or anxious or whatever.

Pri: 57:14

bipolar. Bipolar or

Rebecca: 57:15

yet that's a huge one.

Pri: 57:17

Yeah.

Rebecca: 57:18

Yes. And it's like, then you feel crazy and then you're not, you're just at odds with your own brain and no one's taught you how to deal with it, which not to like market your own, Of course, but like that's why people should take it because

Jamie: 57:34

that's what we're here for. What do you mean?

Pri: 57:36

feel free to market. That's

Jamie: 57:37

Yeah.

Pri: 57:39

but especially like, hang on, I lost my thought. I just did a u

Jamie: 57:45

Ha. Now it's a you,

Rebecca: 57:46

an US you did an, you did an US pree.

Pri: 57:49

I did an us I just did an us fuck. What were we saying?

Jamie: 57:53

I love that.

Rebecca: 57:55

diametrically opposed teaching people. Bipolar

Pri: 58:00

oh yeah, the misdiagnoses, another like misdiagnosis that kills me is like people that don't understand the difference between burnout and depression, especially autistic burnout and depression.'cause neurodivergent burnout is. Is more all encompassing and more systemic than neurotypical burnout. And then autistic burnout looks a lot like depression, but needs something polar opposite to what depression needs. And so many people, myself included before I was better educated, like accidentally do harm because like the recommendations or the treatments or whatever are actually the polar opposite of what that person needs to get out of burnout. So like with depression, recommendation number one is behavioral activation.

Rebecca: 58:38

Yep.

Pri: 58:39

With autistic burnout, like that will just kick you further into burnout. Like what you actually need is probably to do less and see less people and not connect for a little while and reset. And if you don't understand the difference between the two, like that throws so many people off and like, yeah, so many people that come to me for assessment have collected a laundry list of diagnoses over the years from people that like couldn't, use Occam's razor and find like the common explanation that accounts for all, all the different diagnoses.

Rebecca: 59:10

plus those screeners too that you take. it's gonna look like, yeah, I'm depressed as shit, but not really. But like the screeners that you're given at the doctor's office,

Pri: 59:18

Yeah, I'm

Rebecca: 59:18

you fill them out,

Pri: 59:19

I can't get out of bed, like, yep.

Rebecca: 59:22

Right. No, it's not depression, but like there's no differentiating. So yeah, having to struggle through that and like try to explain is just.

Jamie: 59:32

But all of that is like linked in your brain. Correct. So like, get depression, anxiety. A

Pri: 59:39

Yeah. they all like co-occur often and it's, I, and this is where like working with somebody who actually like knows what they're talking about is so helpful of like teasing apart like what came first or like what's the first

Jamie: 59:53

asha coaching.com Everybody. Asha asha coaching.com.

Pri: 59:58

thank you. But yeah, I mean the, the. Like for me, like I think I was diagnosed, like having generalized anxiety and it never quite like, felt like it hit all the, like it didn't quite feel right'cause I didn't really think I was generally an anxious person. I was just like very overwhelmed. And then once I realized it was the A DHD, like treating the A DH adhd, like drastically reduced the anxiety. And so that's why it kills me when there are providers that say like, oh, I can't diagnose you with a DH ADHD'cause you're anxious and you gotta control your anxiety first. And I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, how are you spo how are you supposed to do that without treating the A DH ADHD or without diagnosing it? and so like understanding the kind of like the chain there and also understanding that it can co-occur, it is really normative and expected and adaptive to be anxious when the world feels overstimulating to you or unpredictable to you. when you can't make sense of like other people's behaviors or they can't make sense of yours, you understand them, they can't understand you, of course you're socially anxious like it would be. Ridiculous not to be. and so like, kind of like, yeah, if you meet, you can meet criteria for all these diagnoses, but like, is that actually a useful way of looking at it or is there something else that is like a more holistic understanding of that person that is more useful? I

Jamie: 1:01:14

Yeah, I know. Yeah. I went, it was, it was a night. What'd you say? Sorry.

Pri: 1:01:22

I said mic drop. It just went silent.

Jamie: 1:01:24

Yeah, just silence. yeah, I know. Now I'm like losing my train of thought. You guys. Belinda, Rebecca over here. Just kidding.

Pri: 1:01:32

I'm sorry, Rebecca.

Rebecca: 1:01:34

No, that's okay. Is there anything else, like is there anything we haven't covered that like you really wanna drive home or that you don't think people are hearing enough of? Because I know we've, we've talked a lot around, but is there anything that we, we really didn't

Pri: 1:01:48

I,

Rebecca: 1:01:48

you think people need to be hearing?

Pri: 1:01:50

I think at the heart of it, and I know this is like so cheesy, and I literally say this every. Call of mine with my program, like if you're neurodivergent, you are not broken, you are not less than, you are not deficient. you just have a different operating system. We're talking like Mac and windows. And so once you understand your operating system and you understand how to work within it and you understand what to advocate for to make it work, like there is nothing wrong with you. You've just been trying to live according to a different os. and so I, I don't think people, I think people are getting better about talking about that, and there's like a growing collection of like neurodiversity affirming psychologists and med providers and coaches and such. But, if you're working with somebody who's telling you like, go learn social skills, or Here's how to mask when you aren't asking for that, or somebody who's telling you that like, you are doomed on X, Y, Z. Like drop that shit because

Jamie: 1:02:45

Find someone

Pri: 1:02:46

so much. Yeah, like there's so much awesomeness in Neurodivergence and there's a lot of shit that makes it really hard. Like I'm not, team Neurodivergence is a superpower. because it's still disabling. Like we still live in a world that is designed for neurotypicals and therefore we struggle. But like, if you can design your world to work better for you, I don't think you'll struggle as much. so giving yourself permission to do that, to like meet yourself where you actually are and to recognize that that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you, I think is really important.

Rebecca: 1:03:13

Yeah.

Jamie: 1:03:15

Second mic drop.

Rebecca: 1:03:16

I think my last, my last question is what is your, what is your A DHD go-to food.

Pri: 1:03:23

Ooh, what is my go-to food? Cold stone. Ice cream. I ate that. I ate that so much that the people there now start laughing when I walk in'cause it just opened.

Rebecca: 1:03:35

own song.

Pri: 1:03:37

They, I had just opened like near my house'cause it used to be further away. And when I was in high school, I went so often that when I went off to college and I came back for my first break, they were like, where have you been? Are you okay? so

Jamie: 1:03:48

were so worried about

Pri: 1:03:49

right about you. So it's probably cold stone ice cream.

Rebecca: 1:03:54

that's a good one.

Pri: 1:03:55

what else do I like

Jamie: 1:03:57

Get a cold. You gotta get a Cold Stone partnership now. You gotta

Pri: 1:04:00

I, I probably should. I wonder if they do those

Jamie: 1:04:03

We're trying to get, Uncrustables and Alaska Airlines.

Pri: 1:04:07

Ooh, that would be a good one. That would be a useful one.

Rebecca: 1:04:11

But really, it's just like a grab and go, like a grab. Oh, and then those Costco cheese and fruit and nut packs too that you just grab and like,

Jamie: 1:04:18

yeah.

Pri: 1:04:18

in my fridge.

Rebecca: 1:04:20

yep.

Pri: 1:04:20

I'm trying to think what else is, say right now all the snacks in my house are kiddo snacks. because my kids like live on snacks.

Jamie: 1:04:26

Mm-hmm.

Pri: 1:04:27

them to eat real food.

Jamie: 1:04:28

We, Rebecca and I eat like toddler, like we eat like toddlers most of the time. I,

Pri: 1:04:32

There's a lot of peanut butter in my house. Like that is like always a safe food.

Jamie: 1:04:36

mm-hmm.

Pri: 1:04:37

Yeah.

Rebecca: 1:04:39

when they really started doing this, I don't, they started doing like the whole girl dinner trend on, on social media and I was offended'cause I was like, that's not girl dinner. That's literally what I eat

Pri: 1:04:49

dinner

Jamie: 1:04:49

That's

Rebecca: 1:04:50

It's

Jamie: 1:04:50

also, that's toddler dinner.

Pri: 1:04:52

Toddler

Rebecca: 1:04:52

toddler dinner.

Pri: 1:04:53

We also have a lot of craft mac and cheese and my husband and I definitely will take a serving when we make it for the kids.'cause that's also a safe food in our house.

Jamie: 1:05:03

Have you

Rebecca: 1:05:04

Having kids was the best thing. Oh, sorry. I'll just say as for like picky eaters and, and a DHD eaters kids, having kids is the best thing.'cause it's just like snacks all the time and easy, easy things to eat. It's the best.

Pri: 1:05:17

yeah, and you like go through cycles of like, I will eat this one thing forever and then like, then I forget it exists and I moved on to my next list. Like there was like a chunk of time where it, there is this like snack mix at Costco that has like. Peanuts and mini chocolate peanut butter cups and chocolate chips and peanut butter chips and pretzels. Like it was so good and I bought it so many times. Like then I think I burned myself out on it.'cause I just like went through so many Costco containers of this stuff.

Jamie: 1:05:43

then you get, then you get like sick about, like, about it too. I go through that a lot. Like, I can't remember. Did you, did a, did you do a, why the fuck is this so hard on, on food and eating? I can't remember.

Pri: 1:05:57

I did it on meal planning, but I didn't do it on like other parts

Jamie: 1:06:02

I get.

Pri: 1:06:03

there's a lot of parts of food.

Jamie: 1:06:04

I hyperfocus on a food and that's what I'll do. I'll just like eat it and that like, even if it's like literally like I got takeout from this place and I got pod Thai here, and it was like, perfect, then I'll like keep getting that pod tie like week after week until I like look at it and I'm like, Ugh, I couldn't possibly,

Pri: 1:06:21

There is a sushi place here. That is like a hole in the wall sushi place. I stumbled upon my first time, like outta my first office and I also know them by name'cause I'm there so often. But I actually was eating there so much'cause they have this spicy tuna of sushi bowl that is just so good. that I had to like look up like how much tuna can you eat before you get mercury poisoning? Because I was going there so often, it was in my building and now it's like two buildings over and it's delicious. And like the owners are lovely humans. And now like I usually order online and pick it up'cause I'm like in a rush. But if I forget to order online, like I walk in and they're like, your usual pre, they'll be like, yes, please. So

Jamie: 1:07:02

Aw,

Pri: 1:07:03

I haven't burned out on that yet. I'm very grateful because I will be sad if I burn out on that.

Rebecca: 1:07:07

I love that. No, I love

Pri: 1:07:09

Yeah, I'm definitely a, like, I'm a food person so I eat according to my mood, but I eat a variety. I.

Jamie: 1:07:15

yeah, I am too, but like, I just, I guess I'm a picky eater, but it's that thing where I just get very focused on something and it has to be this, and then in the same vein or in the other vein, I get, super burnt out on it and like couldn't possibly stand it. And then it's like hard for me to figure out what to eat because like sometimes everything sounds bad, but I think that's also like a DHD meds for me does that

Rebecca: 1:07:41

Yeah, but then you call me and I tell you what to eat and then you're good.

Pri: 1:07:46

I definitely eat based on my mood and I have been known to cry if a meal was not what I wanted it to be. So

Rebecca: 1:07:53

Oh, for sure.

Jamie: 1:07:56

like your expectations and then it's,

Pri: 1:07:58

like, you know what you were craving and it didn't live up. Oof, devastating. My husband

Rebecca: 1:08:03

Crying over food.

Pri: 1:08:05

Yeah. Like he could not care less if it's got the right calorie content. He's fine. When I. Started dating him. He would eat like plain quinoa, plain black beans and like paste salsa. And that was his like regular meal. And he

Jamie: 1:08:17

Pace,

Pri: 1:08:17

care at all.

Jamie: 1:08:19

pace, salsa.

Pri: 1:08:21

And that was it. Like that was, it was unseasoned everything and salsa. And I was like, what is this? And he could like not wrap his head around the fact that like I would get teary over not having the right meal. Like it was just such a foreign world for him. But now he knows.

Rebecca: 1:08:36

that's boy dinner. That's, we don't, that's, boy, we don't, we don't eat boy dinner. That's disgusting.

Pri: 1:08:42

Yeah. There's no part of me that wants that.

Rebecca: 1:08:46

Genuinely. Thank you so much for coming here. Like, I, I so appreciate you taking the time to just answer all of our many, many questions. it's nice to have somebody who's knows what she's talking about and

Pri: 1:08:58

Thank you.

Rebecca: 1:08:59

in this. We really appreciate it.

Pri: 1:09:00

I had so much fun chatting with you guys. It's been fun getting to know you through all the like planning and stuff.

Jamie: 1:09:05

Yeah.

Pri: 1:09:05

but yeah, no, this is fun.

Jamie: 1:09:07

we like, honestly, we always tell our guests too, like, we should have you back on sometime. Like, we would love to.

Rebecca: 1:09:12

Yeah.

Pri: 1:09:13

tell me when.

Rebecca: 1:09:14

When is your next coaching? when is your next coaching cohort? Cohort start, sorry.

Pri: 1:09:19

This is is a great question. I am thinking it'll be late summer for the ni next cohort. I am starting to like, collect, collect names on a wait list, for early enrollment. I might be cooking up something else that I'll release before then, so that's why the timing is question mark. But for sure, it'll be either like late July or sometime in August I think that the next cohort runs.

Jamie: 1:09:41

Okay, cool. And

Pri: 1:09:42

So stay tuned. Follow me on the things and

Jamie: 1:09:44

yeah, I do you, I, I know like we have it listed and everything, but do you wanna talk about where people can follow you and find you and

Pri: 1:09:53

Yeah. So I am on Instagram and very newly on TikTok as in as of this week as at Asha, coach, Asha coach. Asha coaching.com is where you can find the stuff about working with me individually or in the group coaching program. you can also sign up for the email list there so you get all the updates. I promise I don't spam you with too much salesy stuff. And then asha mh.com is for my therapy practice, Asha Mental Health. So if you're looking for assessment like adult a DH, ADHD or autism assessment, that's where you would go cadet.

Jamie: 1:10:21

Yeah. You hear that guys, everybody in chat who's like, diagnose me. That's where you go.

Pri: 1:10:27

Yeah. And my email for both of those is Priyanka at and then ASHA Coaching or Asha? Mh. feel free to email me. I love chatting with people, so Yeah.

Rebecca: 1:10:36

And we'll make sure to put all your info in the show notes as well.

Jamie: 1:10:39

sure. Awesome.

Rebecca: 1:10:42

yeah.

Jamie: 1:10:43

thank you Pree so much for being here. yeah, I just like, we, we also have really enjoyed like getting to know you and just honestly like hanging out with you and talking with you. So thank you.

Pri: 1:10:52

yeah. It's been super fun.

Jamie: 1:10:54

yeah. And thanks to everybody for being here for the live stream. we are, oh, we are, a little late on posting last week's episode. there's just some audio

Rebecca: 1:11:04

Hold on a minute. Hold on a minute. No, I had COVID, I messed up. I will get it

Jamie: 1:11:09

you did not mess up. We're

Rebecca: 1:11:11

Oh, sorry. I'm just saying we're having audio issues, but I am on it.

Jamie: 1:11:15

It's not Rebecca's

Rebecca: 1:11:16

it is. I promise it's coming. I'll take it. It's fine.

Pri: 1:11:18

but also you have COVID,

Rebecca: 1:11:19

the fault.

Pri: 1:11:20

think you're allowed to take care of yourself.

Jamie: 1:11:22

Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, it's not your fault. Yeah. I was just letting everybody know if they were like, where's last week's episode? So it's coming. And then, this episode, will be live, Tuesday next week, as well. So thank you everybody. Thank you again pre and, we'll see you all next week. See you burnouts next week.

Rebecca: 1:11:41

week.

Pri: 1:11:42

Yeah. See

Rebecca: 1:11:42

Have a great rest of the week. Bye.

Jamie: 1:11:44

Bye.