the Gen Z that are coming in the army is funny because like, think about having that mindset in the army. Like they still have that mindset and boot camp too. They're like, yeah, I don't want to climb that. I am Jamie. And I'm Rebecca. Welcome to the Burnout Collective. Hey guys. Hello. Welcome Taylor. Hi. Taylor inspired us all to wear tank tops to the show today. would you like to share the storyteller? Yeah. on the topic of burnout and outside influence, my mom wanted me to wear a professional shirt when I had this tank top on. I thought this was lovely enough, but she wanted to iron and give me a shirt. But the lovely ladies here told me that I am my own person. I am can, I can be an individual. I don't have to listen to my mom anymore. So I took the shirt off. Now I am a free flowing individual with a tank top and comfortable. Sorry, Taylor's mouth. You heard it here. You heard it here first. Marina goes, gotta change. Be right back. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah. Welcome to Taylor to episode 22. We are so grateful to have you and so glad you're able to join us. Yeah, I'm so excited to be here. I love you guys though. I'm so excited to talk about one of my favorite topics, burnout, taking care of yourself when you wanna work yourself into the ground. For sure. Yeah. we have just a little bit of housekeeping before we dive in. thank you to Alyssa for filling in for Morgan last week. It was great to have you. Morgan will be joining us on May 15th, so we are so excited to have her. It's, honestly gonna say it, it's our birthday month. We are trying to get something planned, we're working on it tentatively 5 29, but we'll see. We'll let you know. We'll, and yeah, please follow, listen and rate us, anywhere you can get your podcast. And if you haven't already, join the Discord. we have afternoon body doubling, if you want company when you work, we can look at your resumes, anything you really need. It's just a nice community that we're building over there. So yeah, we'd love to have you. Yeah. And for next week, did you say next week or did I miss it? Five 15? I did not say next week. Oh, so next week we're not gonna have a show, so there's no show. Next week, we're gonna be celebrating our birthdays and we are gonna see each other, which is gonna be great. what are you guys doing? I, Jamie wants to get a pedicure. Oh, okay. I'm trying to figure out, okay. Yeah, my partner and I are going to like. The Pacific Northwest, 'cause he has friends in Seattle, but we're also gonna go to Portland for like a couple days. And so we were gonna just like meet Rebecca and her husband, out to dinner. But also I'm like, I kind of wanna get a mani petty. 'cause we got Mani Petty's at this place near her and it was literally like the best place I've ever been to in my life. Oh, nice. They did like, it was my first like hot stone massage. okay. And I don't know if you've ever had that, but on your feet, in your calves? Never. Oh my God. It's like, you don't know like how sore and tired your feet and legs are until that happens. So you a long nail girly or a short nail girly? I'm a short nail girly. I don't like, yeah, same. I mean, girl melt like a teeny bit. So like they have a little shape, but I can't do the long nails. I don't know what to do with myself. Yeah. Either. Now I just yank myself accidentally, constantly, like I'll do something and then like gouge out skin and it's just short is better. I'm like, how do I type angrily and spitefully? Like I know right. Whenever I get long I just, yeah. I like just cut 'em off so I can just like type like a maniac. Yes. Mar Marina says, how do you wipe your butt with long dagger nails? You get a bidet marina. That's what you do? Yes, I have. so you're in Hawaii, Taylor, does Hawaii have bidets? So Hawaii does not have the days? No. I mean if you go to maybe like a fancier hotel, sometimes they have it. But it's very. Like minimalist here. That's what I love. That's what I'm scared about moving is that the vibe here is very laid back and I've fallen into that too. It's not like hustle and bustle. one thing I absolutely love is that when you meet people, it's not like, Hey, what's your name and what do you do for a living? It's like, what do you enjoy doing on the weekend? Or like, what are you about? What are your hobbies? So that's something that I really dislike about the mainland that I'm not looking forward to. But yeah, nobody and great people. That sounds really great. That was the weirdest question I have ever heard you ask is just Hawaii. I'm sorry, I just like was thinking about it, that's all. Like I didn't think so, but I don't know. It's still the United States. That could be. I know, but they're becoming popular in the US Yeah, I was wondering Yeah, a portable kind that yet the kind that you connect to your toilet. Yeah. Yeah. But to me it's like, it's cool to have a bidet, but I feel like there should be a drying aspect after. I'm not sure how it works. You just use the wet, listen, that's why you need a toto toilet. The Japanese toilets that, like they have songs, they have warm dryers, they have air. Okay. Like blow dryers. That is my Your cooch. Yeah, that's my, so when I get enough money, I'm getting a Japanese toilet. they light up, they sing. That's my dream. That's not terrifying. Shut up, Jamie. That's not terrifying. I didn't say anything. Listen, I'm all for some of us wanna have a dry coer. No, that's fine. I do still, I use less toilet paper, but I do still like dry a little bit. alright, we have to stop talking about this now. I'm done. No, we have to stop. We have to stop. We have to stop. I think the title of this episode should be like, does Hawaii have bidets? Have a B day. It's a great, I love that. I love that. Anyway. No, but yeah, Taylor, we would love to hear what was the genesis of your burnout and what brings you here today? Yeah, so my backstory, I am a finance writer. I started writing about finance, back in maybe 2011 or 12 ish when it was like the height of the like personal finance and blogging era. And so I was writing just about student loan, were paying my student loans, blah, blah, blah. And I absolutely hated my job. So I decided I was gonna try to make it as this blogger. And so I quit my job and I wanted to make money for my blog. That wasn't happening right away. I had no patience. So I started freelance writing. I think my first gig of the freelance writer it was writing about Kim Kardashian and Kanye West, like a gossip blog. And I think I made like $25 for a few articles. Yes. but I saw money and I was like, I'm gonna do this. so that is the beginning of a long story. I was freelancing for almost like maybe nine-ish years. but the money started getting really, really good and I had a lot of like, credibility in the space. So I was getting a lot of work, but, and burnout happened when I was just like taking out, taking on so many assignments because I wanted to meet income goals and I wanted to be this business person that I envisioned in my head. And yeah, that's when I burnt out. I had to pretty much give up the business. Yeah. So you started looking for a full-time gig, or did you take a break in between? Yeah, no, I took, let me see, I The break was, I was forced to do a break 'cause because a lot of my contracts ended or clients like could no longer needed me for work. And me and my husband were just on the same page in the fact that I didn't really need to replace that income. So I just started winding down and decided maybe it was a good idea for me to go into a full-time job where I didn't have to always think about where the next dollar was gonna come in. Or like think about getting more clients or like the benefit of being a freelancer is that there's unlimited income. You can make as much as you want because you can work as much as you want. But that's also like the downside. You can always be working at night on the weekends. yeah, because it's made more sense at the time in our lives for me to get a full-time job. And I've liked it ever since. And that's like we talked about earlier, how when you're freelancing, like you never necessarily know like where your next paycheck is coming from. Yeah. Or like when a client's gonna drop you or not have as much to give you as like normally they do. So that kind of fixes that problem too a little bit. Makes it look a little more attractive for a full-time gig, I guess. Yeah. So I, when I had started writing, it was really sexy and cool to be like a digital nomad and like a blogger or a freelancer. And I just created this idea, like once I, I tell people sometimes that instead of like quitting my job and decided to, deciding to go a whole different path, I could have benefited from therapy at the time because really I was trying to fix, is that an odd thing to say? I was like, I needed help, but I think I was trying to. Fix something in myself. because I envisioned, like, if I made this money, if I have my own business and if I'm able to build this cloud for myself, I will feel happy. And it got to the point where I did those things. I made the income and I got to where I wanted to be, and there was still something not there. so I just had to, I had to dial it back and figure out what my values are, what I wanted. And it was not to work myself into the ground constantly. And thank God. Yeah. Thank God for that. That's actually, I think we both met Taylor, when she was freelancing. And when we reached out to her for the show, I was like, I told Rebecca, I was like, oh, we should reach out to Taylor. Like Taylor would be great on this show. And we hadn't ever gotten to like, talk to her like this and meet her virtually. It was just, Thanks for the assignment. Yeah. Like, you're awesome. But I told her she was like always one of our favorite freelancers because she was just, yes, you work very hard and you do really great work. we were so excited to see you. It was so good to hear. Yeah. Oh, you really do. Yeah. Really do you also mentioned that like you were, was it in Germany when you were freelancing too? So like you were having to like, go through the stress of setting up all the other stuff from that side of the world without any help? So I am a military spouse. so we move every three years. So our first tour together, I don't know if they call. Okay. So I'm a military spouse, but also I have joined the, this whole thing as a military spouse later in my husband's game. So like, a lot of military spouses are indoctrinated into like the life. So they know all the terminology and stuff. I don't, so I don't know if going to Germany was a tour or like a move. I don't know. So if you, I like tour. It sounds fancy. We're on our tour. Yeah. If anyone listening to this is like, she doesn't know what she's talking about. I don't. But we were in Germany and we were, our entire family was there. And it was cool because when I was freelancing, of course I could take my career with us and a lot of military officers aren't really able to work because they moved so much. but when I was in Germany, I also had to set up a German business because the German tax authority will like find you and it will not be good if you don't pay German taxes. I had to get a German accountant. one year I paid 30,000 euro in taxes. I cried because I know because, and I, at the time, after I paid taxes, I was like. My husband Tom, I, why am I even working? I'm just working to give all of my money to Germany. But, so yeah, that's how it worked. And then after that, fortunately we left and here we have a lot of tax breaks if you're like a solopreneur, but there, we didn't qualify for some of those tax breaks because we didn't like use their healthcare and we didn't have like a retirement plan. Like, here you can contribute to a retirement plan and reduce your tax liability, not there. So that was a hurdle. But overall, we love that experience living in another country. Not many people get to do that. did you learn a lot of German when you were there? No, not a lot because, no. So Covid, so we had a German, a tutor, like a language tutor, and then Covid happened and we didn't go anywhere to practice it. So we couldn't talk to anybody. so that was like one year of our life there. So after that, and then when we would try to use German, they were just like, don't it just because they know English. So when we're like struggling to say something, they're just like, please don't. Nine. Yeah. Yeah. No. Wow. Those warm fuzzy drummonds. Yeah. Yeah. It was cool. We're now stationed in Hawaii and then we're moving back in, in a few months to Maryland on the East coast. Oh, wow. I didn't realize it was that soon. Your daughter? Yeah. Yeah. Nice. I'm a little scared. Excited but scared. I hope it's gonna be a great move for you guys. And are you gonna be closer to family then? Yeah, much closer. Okay, cool. All of our family is on the East Coast, so yeah, we'll be a lot closer to that. Very nice. Awesome. yeah, I'm really interested too, like one of the things you talked about, one of the gen, like one of the other ways that you started getting on a burnout, and we don't have to go into it, but you mentioned like you had a health scare and so it was this wake up call that like, oh, none of this is important and like, this is what's important. Yeah. And it was like a slap in the face. Yeah. So I had the epiphany about burnout in between Germany and Hawaii when I made my income goals and I. I was just realizing that I was still unhappy when I was doing all the things I set out to do. And so I took a major step back and just realized that the things that I were working on was just, it was driving me. The stress level was just like not sleeping at night, not being present with my daughter, my husband, it was not working. so I took that step back. Then at the beginning of the year, we, had a baby, but after we had, first of all, it was an emergency C-section. and after that I got postpartum preeclampsia, which the people who've never had, a baby before. It's basically this illness where you have a baby and or even before you have the baby, your blood pressure just goes uncontrollably high and they have to try to figure out how to break it down. And then sometimes it's very hard to find the cocktail of medicine that can. and so during that, you're at risk of heart attack, stroke, seizure. so your blood pressure's supposed to be one 20 over 80. Mine was maybe 180 over like one 10. Yeah. So it, it was just, wow. Yeah, it was incredibly scary. And it was like, it over several weeks, I had to just keep going into the emergency room and. It was the first time I've ever had a brush with like a health scare because I am 36. I feel like that's relatively young. I've never had to worry about anything like that. So it was being in an ICU and realizing, wait, I'm not thinking about the work that I was doing. I'm not thinking about how much money I was gonna make or how much money I had in the bank. I'm actually thinking about the time that I would be missing with my kids or my husband. So I think that just like I made the decision, Hey, I'm gonna step back. I'm not gonna allow myself to constantly say yes to things about a year ago, a little bit more. But that situation just demented the fact that what matters, like what matters to me, it matters that my family knows that I'm a good person, that I'm caring, that I showed up for them. I don't want to be remembered as someone who's just constantly working, which is what I feel like my daughter kind of thinking sometimes at that time. That's Not what. I wanna leave this earth. Mommy was always in her office. Yeah. And then she had my brother and she died, and all I remember is her working on the computer now. so yeah, it's very, it's a morbid thought and I don't want to, I don't want it to, I don't want to bring it down. because I look at it and laugh now, like, that was a crazy time. I can't believe that happened to me. Like, that's a crazy story I'm gonna tell 10 years from now. But it's really like, put things into perspective. It's great to create things, but also don't create your own health. But I try to tell myself like, don't do something only to realize that later on it doesn't even fulfill you. Like you keep moving in this direction because you think you should, but at the end of the day, you end up being miserable because of it. So it's okay to let things go. When my daughter was little, she would be like, are you guys done paying the house off yet? 'cause we told her, she was like, why do you guys work so much? And I was like, oh, so we can pay the house off. And she's like, every week she's like, are you done paying the house off? Oh, that's so cute. Yeah. and so sad. I know. Does she still ask? I feel you. That's a really good point though. Like, you don't want your daughter to be like, all my mom does was work, and then she's gone. And it's like, that's a super sobering thought. I haven't thought about it like that, but yeah, that's a hundred percent accurate. You don't want that. yeah, not at all. So we, so after, I'm not perfect. I was telling you earlier that, today I took a day off from work. but I filled up the entire day with stuff, so I'm like still working on, because burnout, I think it, it relates to work, of course, but then it relates to all areas of your life, like taking appointments all the time. So today I booked therapy, which is great. Of course, I love going to therapy, but I also booked like other social engagements and all these things I took off the day specifically for this. So yeah, it's a constant struggle, but it's always going back to like, what am I feeling? And in the case of me, since I have a family, like what are I, what's my family feeling and do I need to reevaluate? Yeah. if you're comfortable getting into this is something that Jamie and I haven't really had experience with, but it was really fascinating. So we've talked about like generational trauma, and breaking those cycles. But one of the things you brought up when we were talking the other night was, generational burnout and how. Like as a kid of immigrants, that's something that you are currently working on breaking the cycle. And we would love to hear more about that. 'cause I think a lot of us are really unfamiliar with it and it really is, I think not talked about enough. yeah, sure. So my family, my mom and dad are from Jamaican Trinidad. so they immigrated to the US and they did a lot to, they sacrificed a lot to get us in a financial position where they could pay a lot of our college, like for me and my brother. we still had some loans, but they did a lot for us. so as a first generation American, it's on your shoulders to really, do as good or better than the family who brought you here, basically just as like paying respect to them almost. so that was a heavy burden on my shoulders because I don't feel like I fit the mold of, Typical. Like I didn't wanna be a doctor, I didn't really wanna be a lawyer, I didn't wanna be an engineer. I didn't wanna be all those things that an immigrant parent wants you to be. So I think that was one, one of the reasons I burnt out when I was a writer. Because if you tell a parent, any parent, which was an immigrant parent, that you want to leave your job to be a writer, that's just, it's like, what the hell? that, that always weighed heavily on me, and I think that was one reason why I put so much effort into a lot of the things I did because I wanted to show them like, Hey, I'm not in a conventional career path. I can still be successful. So that's something that I think maybe in my. Late twenties, I got less pressure from them. I think they realized, hey, Taylor has to live her life. She's gonna do what she wanted to do. But then it was kind of pressure I was putting on myself to prove that I made the right move. And so in leaving my freelance career and like changing my perspective, that was one of the things I had to do. I had to tell myself that it's okay to let a lot of that go. Was it seen like you not, is it seen as like disrespectful to what they sacrificed and all the work to get you where they are? Or was it they just didn't want you to have to like sacrifice and struggle so much and like they were just worried about like you being successful? I think at first it might have been the first, not disrespectful, but. More like, did you see what we sacrificed to get you here? Yeah. Like, are you sure that's going to take you where you think it's going to go? and I think the change in them was, you know what, this is her journey now. So yes, we did X, Y, and Z, but she is free to do what she needs to do, also like not a freshly ironed shirt over the tank top. She really does. Yeah. But I feel like as everyone can see the growth, it's still happening. Because I wore, my mother was like, you need to wear a shirt. And I wore the shirt. So we should see. But you reached out for help. We heard your call. I reached, I did. I did though. I'm still like, I'm still working on it. Old habits die hard, What did your parents do? Did they work, like, did they work mostly outta the house when you were growing up? Or was your mom, did she stay at home? No. So my. And it's funny 'cause in some ways I'm recreating if you learn this a lot in therapy sometimes, like you recreate your past. Yeah. So my dad was in the Air Force, he was in the Air Force for I believe, 30 ish years, but he, there's like eight ranks in, the Air Force and he made it all the way to the top. that was, yeah, he did really well in his career. And then my mom was, a pharmaceutical sales person. And have you seen like, love and other drugs one that movie? Like she she did that. and she did really well in her career too, yeah. And so my dad was not, he was traveling a lot because he like actually worked on planes and flew around and my mom was the one who took care of us a lot, but she was often working. So sometimes I feel like it's, that same kind of habit has. Kind of happening with me. And so that's why I had to take a step back. And she lives with us right now while she's helping me take care of our young baby. So we've actually had a lot of really in-depth conversations about me doing the same things that she does and things that she wished maybe she didn't do, and what I could change, for our daughter as well. So that's really lovely that she's at least like willing to talk to you about it too and change her. Yeah. Yeah. Mindset, which is big. I like, one of the things in like just the black community in general is that things aren't necessarily talked about. And so it is really a big thing that she's willing to have some of these conversations because it's usually like things don't get talked about. Like money is one thing and feelings is another thing. And so it is really big that she's willing to talk about like our history and like our future. Yeah. No, that's really great. And it's also refreshing you're, and plus for a parent Your daughter's seeing that in real time too. Like, she's seeing that conversation happening and like that communication happening too. Yes. Yeah. It's really awesome. me and my daughter are very communicative. we talked about this a little bit before. I'm balancing how I want to parent her with how I've been brought up. Because like in the case of like, when I was brought up, it was, you have to go upstairs and learn your timetables before you can come downstairs. Like, it was very like, study, do this. And so for me, I'm really like, okay, let's do your homework. If it's good. If it's not. But I'm trying to balance, I don't want her to be like a failing student, but I also don't want to pressure her into this horribly anxious student. yeah. Yeah. It's a learning experience. Do you set up, like do you, have you set rules for yourself of like, okay, I'm done working at this time? Or like, do you set times apart to like, spend times with the kids on your own? Or like how do you carve out that time for yourself and for your kids? Yeah, for sure. So since I work nine to five now, that's basically it. Nine to five. I don't try to work over, if anything, I'll work during my lunch or maybe lately I've been working a little bit earlier during the day my son wakes up at six anyway, and since I'm on Hawaii time, it just works better. yeah, evenings are family time. It's really, yeah, it's that it always feels so good to like start setting boundaries and start saying no. it's so hard to do, but I know in my life when I started saying no to people and no to things, like my mental health was so much better. Oh yeah. A hundred percent, but also, I don't think so. We talk a lot about saying no. just I feel like that's a hot thing and I do it. You're doing, we're learning it, but I don't think we talk enough about the response that you're gonna get also from people because it's not always positive. Very true. Like I had, when I was a freelance, I had situations where I was doing some work for people that I don't think I was being paid enough. Like I, sometimes I was working on weekends, like I remember my husband, but before we got married, he booked this, like, this Poconos trip away, and we were supposed to like, have a little fun in the cabin and I was working. And then I remember that the person I was working for wasn't really paying me that well for a month of work, and I thought we were pretty close. and I ended up like just confronting it, being like, yeah, I would like be paid X. Like I don't think this is working out. And the response like, wasn't great. So I feel like sometimes we think that, we're gonna say no and it's gonna be like the sun, like the clouds are gonna open. The sun's just gonna flow down and like everything's gonna be right in the world. But there is gonna be pushback and it is gonna feel uncomfortable. So yeah. I dunno if you've experienced that. Oh yeah. 'cause then how are they supposed to exploit you and get you to work for free? Taylor? Like yes and no. Mm-hmm. Hate. Yeah. It's tough when you said boundaries, it's not always gonna be pleasant. Patriarchy's worth it and consumerism. That's what it's about. Exactly. That's what it's about. and you said your husband's learning alongside you too. 'cause you said he's also like first gen and so like you guys are learning this together and going through that together. So like to have that kind of support too, and you're not just on your own. That's also gotta be really nice because that probably helps you keep those boundaries in place. Yes, exactly. He's helped me so much. so we've known each other for a very long time. We met when we were like six or seven, and we've like, were together. actually no, we hated each other. Came together, left together. And so we know a lot about each other. and so since he is first Gen Korean, and so my parents are from the Caribbean, his mom is from Korea, but there's some similarities in just like the very strict kind of nature like you do in Korea. Like you're a doctor, you're this. so it's very similar in that way. so even him going to the army was like a stretch because that's not something that his mom has really like seen before in their family. but yeah, I think to justify his career choices and just to like, make himself feel like he's also achieving, he's worked his ass off. Yeah. in his career and devote, like he's been to Iraq multiple times, he's been a drill sergeant. He's taken on all these different roles that just to keep moving up. And so we both at the same time, were just like, we can't do this. Like, his body is literally liter, like me mentally break it down. His body is because it's a very physical job. So yeah. We're both always trying to encourage each other, just like let it go. Like the Army is still gonna be the army if you don't give a hundred percent. And just like we were talking about before, his like 75% is someone's like 150%. Yes. Like give 75. but yeah, it's, we're trying to just separate our self-worth from what we do because we're people outside of this. Yeah. Was just gonna say, which is so hard to do, like, it's just like mm-hmm. Like, I mean, even talking about how Rebecca was talking about how m used to be, like, did you pay off the mortgage yet? It's like even like at a young age. Yeah. I think like we start out by being like, oh, we gotta work. We gotta work. We gotta make money. Yeah. Yeah. and we just like go through these phases of life and these like, different decades of our life. And I think a lot of us don't realize what you realized until we're in like our thirties or forties. Yeah, exactly. And that's why I don't, I know people like, just don't like aging, but I've found that my twenties, like were the worst time in my life. I don't know why people like the, I feel like, gen Z I'm not Gen Z, so I don't know what generation you guys are in, but, millennials, they we're geriatric millennials, I think I am too, so No worries. they romanticized this youth thing and I just, I feel like between 24 and 30, like things were hell, I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I was very, I don't know. And so I just, the awakening in my thirties, going through like literal hell, and coming back, it's just, yeah. I just enjoy it so much more than being, I'll take this over being young any day. Yeah. You said something really lovely about like, not letting yourself be defined by your work, but like letting yourself be defined by the people you love and the people who love you. Yeah. that's really nice. That's a major thing. Or just like activities. I've, I realized that, coming up in the two thou, I don't know, did you guys blog at all? I know that you guys haven't freelance, but did you, do you blog? Yes. Did you do like finance vlogging? No, I did lifestyle blogging. I did like all the free swag and all that shit in like the early two thousands. So I, so you're with me here. It almost, that was a hobby, Like, and then it turned into like, monetization was your hobby. Yeah. So I realized that I don't have any hobby that's like, not related to money. So that's something I'm trying to find, myself in like, I've started painting. nice. Like hanging out with friends. I don't know, just finding things other than work, because in, in a lot of respects, you can't, we talked a little bit about this before, like your skill will help you move up, but sometimes it has nothing to do with skill. It's who, you know, what relationships you've made, whether they like you, whether they don't like you. And my husband has been telling me like, if you base yourself off of some things that you don't have control over, that's like really a negative place to be in, and that can be super harmful. So I'm trying not to, yeah. 100%. Yeah, 100%. So I still think it's important to set goals. I don't want anyone to think that I'm now just like a slacker. I've decided I don't wanna work hard, but I just, I just don't want to be wrapped, wrapped up all the way in it. It's something I do, but it's not who I am. No. And morbidly we'll be dead at some point anyway. And I would rather spend it not wrapping myself up in my job. And that's something we're still learning, but that, that really hits home just like it's all gonna end anyway. You might as well just spend it with people who you like and doing what you wanna do. I was thinking of, you were saying how like, coming from immigrant parents and then you're like, I'm gonna be a writer. I'm quitting my job and I'm gonna be a writer. Like, that's kind of what my friend did who also has immigrant parents and was like, I'm gonna be a standup comedian. So I feel like how know? Yeah. Yeah. and she or she, or he's still doing standup? Yes. Comedy actually. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. And he's great, but like, yeah. At least you weren't like, I'm gonna do standup. I'm gonna be a funny man, mom, like, no. Yeah, I don't know. it's hard to have those conversations, so I commend your friend. Like, it's not, it's not easy. Like the, we're always, everything we see online is like, follow your dream, follow your passion. But it's not always that easy. Was there like, like pressure, was there pressure from your parents to kind of like meet a standard of who they think like a model immigrant should be? Is that like what it was? Was it just like, we need to like put our best foot forward? Or was it just like, we just need you to work hard? Yeah, I think it wasn't being a model immigrant, it was just mostly work hard, like work hard be something. also, I think there's an element, and maybe it's all families. I don't know if this is just an immigrant family, but you wanna be able to like what your kids do as an extension of you. So being able to say, Hey, they're doing this, or like in conversation, like I guess looking back at it. I can see where they're coming from. Because if family members are asking like, Hey, what such and what's Taylor up to? And they can't explain it, it's kind and they're like, oh, she just quit her job and she's gonna be a writer. Right. She gets on the internet Yeah. About money when they can write on the internet with that tone. But she doesn't have any, so like we don't know what's going on. Like, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think the assumption is that like, writers are broke, so like, is she, or also the assumption is that writers write novels, you know, like that type of thing. Like there's just, there's just a question like what exactly is she writing? Yeah, very true. So it was also, it was an education aspect of my part as well to show them, like to show them in their terms what I do. Yeah. yeah, it is always funny to hear your parents like ex try to explain what you do to somebody else, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Marina said, is trophy wife a passion? That's what I want. Who? Hi Rob. Welcome in. That'd be a good one. Yes. That is a passion of mine for someday. I love that. Yeah. There's a meme going around with just like pictures of fucking Anna Nicole Smith and a Heidi from, the Playboy bunnies, and it's just like, this is how much I don't wanna work anymore. I'm really enjoying the movement towards, and I had mentioned this also before to you guys that, there's just been like a shift in the culture because when, I graduated college, the culture was hustle, hustle, hustle. Do whatever you have to do to make money, any means necessary. And I actually commend Gen Z for taking in another approach, which is. Work and just do what I have to do at a regular job and then live life. So I feel like there's a place in the middle, but I actually do like their take on it. Yeah. They are wonderful, but also so fucking frustrating to manage because it's like, I know. It's a balancing act though. Yeah. You can't do absolutely nothing. Yeah. Especially remote working. Yeah. I can imagine. They're like, have you seen I'm, I don't understand why they've been going on TikTok and giving remote work a bad name by saying that they're like at the pool during working hours when they're supposed to be doing stuff. And so now every company thinks that we are not doing anything because they're not doing anything that I can't get behind. Yeah. Right. But also having to unlearn that bad habits that like have been ingrained to you for almost 20 years of working now.. So job hopping used to be really bad. that used to be considered bad. And I worked for a lot of startups and so like, they would either crash out or lose money and I would be like, accused of job hopping, but like now they're like, fuck it, they didn't pay me, or I didn't like working there. It was a tox environment. I'm gone. And they do not care. They will leave, they won't give two weeks. They're just like gone. And I'm like, that's, I respect that. Like they just don't put up with that shit. Also. That's how, like, you get more money nowadays. Because a lot of companies like aren't giving you raises or they're just giving you, like the, like here's like the 1% raise once a year. Or whatever. but that's not enough. Like, I don't know, dunno if you've seen the economy, but like that's not, that's not gonna cut it. I feel like people only really say it anywhere for a year or two now. Like that's, That's the norm. I've been at my job for two years and four months, and that's the longest I've ever been anywhere. And it's crazy. Yeah. So you're a veteran. I know. I'm, I've been here for year, that's how I feel. It's like years and years, but it's been two, which like, let's be honest, it's not that long, but it just feels like for forever. 'cause I would've had another job by now. yeah. So yeah, staying in place is, it's really, I don't know, it's just really different. and I think our, yeah. What else? I haven't, sorry. I was just gonna say, I think like our parents have a, oh, sorry. I think our parents have a harder time too with that because like, I've had my parents, or like friends' parents have been like, oh, you can't keep job hopping. No, you've only been at this company now for a year and a half. Like, you can't leave yet. And it's like, but they're not paying me what I'm worth and they're not treating me and I'm burnt out. And. This isn't working out for me. Like everybody at work's an asshole, but they're like, no, you must stay. You have to be there for X amount of years. But yeah, that's what you do now. So go ahead Taylor. I'm sorry. I'm, that's a relief to me because when I started my career, I was at a job that I really did not like. And looking back, I felt, it felt like an eternity that I was there. I was only there for like six months, but it felt so long. And I think the reason that it felt so long is because I just had that in the back of my mind. Like I was still very in that traditional timeline. So it was like, you have to stay no matter what. Like, and it just felt like I was trapped, that I was locked in. And so I'm just, I'm so glad that I ended up leaving that job and now I have this, it. It's not a problem to be leaving anywhere anymore because, there's so many reasons that you could leave within six months or a year, like maybe you got a better job. Like that doesn't mean you're flighty. If you're doing what's best for you, are you supposed to stay somewhere that pays you less? They don't give a fuck about you. They don't give a fuck about you. If you die tomorrow, they would replace you like that. You don't owe them anything. And they like, 'cause they clearly owe you nothing. No loyalty, just a member. That's, I think the thing about Welcome and Pat, gen Z has been like, they understand that there is no loyalty and they are not loyal. And that's like a whole, like, they're not grateful to this company for, they're not, they don't act like they're grateful. They act like the company should be grateful they're there. And again, that's a whole different mindset. And I'm like, yeah, yes, they should be. I don't know, it's just, it's they're very empowered and I, yeah, I don't know. I've never, I've heard of that. I've never worked with, I only worked with one, I've only worked with one Gen Z before. but yeah, I've never managed one, so I don't know what the. What would it be like to do that? I don't know if it'd be challenging or, I think it's fun. anecdotally, my husband, the Gen Z that are coming in the army is funny because like, think about having that mindset in the army. Like they still have that mindset and boot camp too. They're like, yeah, I don't want to climb that. He, yeah, he has a get, get your husband in here. We need to hear some of these stories. I'm just kidding. That's so good. We have to, and he's, the thing is, he's hilarious. but he will go in to, it's just like, it's funny, this type of stuff he does. 'cause now we're like the old people, like the army is a young man's game, so they're like all 18 and he's 36, so he's like the geriatric person there. So he'll like sing like. HEPA songs or like, just like Sierra songs and they're just like, what is that? Like? We don't know what that is. That is an oldie, the oldies. They're the oldies. You hilarious. It's hilarious. Yeah. Ndi even, even in the Army, they're not trying to do anything. So that's very funny. 'cause the army will kick the shit out of you and what I've heard, but know that, but they can't really anymore. Like they have, oh my god. Can you imagine a Gen Z Marine? Like a Gen Z Marine? Can you even imagine? Right, right. I cannot. it's funny. It's funny. Our military. Yeah, it's funny. Our military, oh shit. They're very brazen. I don't know if that's the right word, but they're just, yeah, they're their own advocates, which is Admirable. Very much I think we can learn from the youth. Jen Alpha too is coming up behind, because I don't know if I've told the story here. I know I've told you guys, my daughter sent her math teacher an email being like. Listen, I don't really have time for math right now. I'm too busy focusing on my other interests, which are art. I'm sure I'll fail, but hopefully this doesn't get me left behind. And then she ended up Thanks for understanding. I love that. I love that. You know what we need, like I don't have time for this. We need more audacity. We really do. Yes, we really do. We really do. Yeah. I'm trying to be more audacious in everything. Just telling your boss, I don't really have time for this right now and focusing on my other entrance. Yeah. I don't know if I'll ever get there, but I'll try to get there. no. Yeah. I don't know if I'll ever get there. So your daughter's very brave. We could all use that. We could all use that. Yeah. Saying no is a big thing in the workplace. Like saying no, I can't do that has been a new thing as well. Being like actually in that capacity and I cannot do that, has been totally new and it's still so hard to do, like. Yes. Ugh. I think especially with the job market as it is right now, you don't, you feel like you don't wanna do anything that could rub anyone the wrong way because there's so many unknowns. Like, could I be next on the chopping block or, yeah, I just, it's just laying under the radar, not wanting to cause any problem. Especially in a specialized industry where it's very small like ours where it's just like there are plenty of people waiting for your fucking job in the wing. So you don't wanna make waves. You don't want me to notice you. It's very scary. Sorry. By the wave for all the nose. Boy, it is allergy season and I am like trying to calm my eyes. We're over here like dying. Taylor's like I'm in Hawaii. Yeah. I don't know. There's a lot of pollen everywhere, but I don't, maybe I'm just like not allergic to the pollen here. I haven't had a problem since I've been here. Yeah. Are you gonna miss it a little bit though? Like, I gotta say going to the east coast versus Hawaii. Yeah, I, it's really tough 'cause I wanna be close to family. I feel like we're missing out on a lot of like the family holidays and that sort of thing. Sure. But I love Hawaii. Like this is one of the best places in the world to me. Like it's very healing. Like I've had traumatic things happen here, but it was the perfect place because there's something like, there's a, there's an energy about the island and about the people. It's like hearing the ocean and like always warm. Everyone's so inviting. It feels like this was the right place for like payoff to happen. So yeah, we hope that maybe we'll be back, like we'll retire here, but if anyone is coming here and need like recommendations on places to go, let me know. 'cause we've nice, this island is so small. We've tried to find, there's so many things to do even though it's so small. We found a lot of the co places, I'm always down to play tour guide. How long have you spend there? Fucking bidet people. There's no B days. Hey, I wasn't gonna bring that up again. I wasn't gonna bring it up again. Rebecca brought it up again. Yeah, this is my favorite new question. How it was, I'm sorry. I'm weird. I'm awkward. I just, it's fine. No, it's just a fun question. It's a fun question I never would've asked and now it delights me and now everyone I know at every different state I don't live in, I'd be like, do they have the days in Nebraska? And I'm just gonna ask, I don't know. you never know. How long have you been in Hawaii for? Three years. Oh, nice. Yeah. Four years. Cool. It's great. I love it. I would miss all the food. I think All the food. Yeah. Our daughter goes to this really cute local school. They're so nice. so she talks with like a Hawaii accent. Which is funny. Oh, it's like super cute. Like she says, it's not, you don't pronounce it Hawaii. It's, I can't do it. Hawaii, Hawaii, Hawaii. She says it like that. Yeah, like the, because here there's a, There's a mark between that, the two eyes, and that's supposed to be like a space as you're saying it. So I always still say Hawaii, but she says Hawaii, which is really cute. And just like food they have here, one popular one is Bam Zubi is how I pronounce it, is she pronounce it like she just has taken all these little, she's like, this is how you actually pronounce it, mother. she literally did, oh my gosh. I wish she could be featured on the podcast because she, her personality is the next level. So she literally told me, I don't know what you're talking about when you say Missumi, but at school we say Missy, so yeah. You know what, Elise? It's not a German accent. It could be worse. It could be a German accent. Like it could be a German accent. Yes. Oof. No, that's, oh, that's so funny. When they start getting sassy like that, like mother, when they start like doubting your existence in this world and be like, you are doing something wrong, that's when you know, you're just like, ugh. Or like, she, like, when the baby's crying, she's like, he needs food. Or like, take care of your baby, basically. Take care of your baby. Okay. Yeah. One time I was like, a few days ago, I was like, Elise, can you like play with, play with your brother? And she was like, but mom, it's your baby. I'm like, oh, okay. Oh, alright. I'm like, she, you're not wrong. you're not wrong. So let me just, you know, I'm not here to babysit your child. I'm like, I try to encourage, she's like, mother, I don't work for free. Exactly. She'll, like a Barbie is, might be a Barbie is might be. So honestly it's gonna, she's like around, it's gonna cost you, it's gonna cost you mother as long as she's doing that to everyone else in the world as well. I don't want her working for free. I want her speaking her mind though. Try to encourage that. That's great. I love it. We have a lot more aud, audacious children growing up and being in this world. Yeah, we need it for sure. Which is so interesting because I wasn't like that at all as well. I was like that as a kid, but then you get the sheep shit beat out of 'em. So I think the difference is with the, with us not beating the shit out of our kids, they're free to be 100% audacious and that we had to deal with the fallout of that. Yeah. I felt like our, in general, when we were growing up, our society was just like different. It did not allow us, like, not even just our parents, just the society as a whole, it was like, this is not how you talk, this is not how you act. You follow this and it's, it is interesting to see that it's just not the case anymore. Yeah, you don't have to follow any guidelines. So can you imagine telling an adult to their face, I don't really have time for this thing that you do as a profession that you're here to do for me? I don't have time for that. Like, to your manager. I don't wanna for that. But like back then, as a kid, can you imagine just any of the teachers? no. I could never, I would be grounded for that. No, not at all. I re I respect it so much. M is like my role model. Like, that's so great. I hate math. I wish that I could have Express that to my teacher. It's not dinner. now we have AI to do it and a calculator. So I use my Amazon device and I'll just like yell things at it. It's like, what's two plus two? Like, I don't have time for this. Thank you so much though for coming on Taylor. I am so glad we actually got to spend time and talk to you. I've been dying to do it for forever. Can we do it more? Yeah, we do. Because that would, yes, we are gonna do it more. We wanna do it more. Okay. Yes, please. Gonna be in the Discord chatting, talking, working alongside, because I get lonely. I love working remotely, but also I wish I, I did co-working a lot more, so I think I might do that on the East coast. Like, I like working alongside other people. Like I feed off the energy. Yeah, we did it yesterday. That was really nice. 'cause I had like, the bullshit I was working on. We did it today and it was like, it was just like that extra bop to keep you going so you weren't I don't know. And then, yeah, I just, I love it. She can email him clip school email. I'm like, what? Yeah. Oh, didn't Then Jamie's like, I'm gonna go take a nap. Listen, I'm tired. I thi I really hope I'm not getting sick. I'm feeling like I'm just slowly dying. What do you what I ever since I got Covid that one time, every time I get sick it starts here as a tingle. Do you feel that ever? No. How do you know when you're starting to get sick? Like what's the symptom? I guess it depends. right now it's just like, I don't know for sure and I really hope not 'cause I have a trip coming up. but it's just like my throat's bothering me and like I can't stop coughing and, but I am very sinusy so like I have like sinus pressure and pain and headache and I'm like a little stuffed up. but that just could be, my eyes get hot like right here with your eyes feeling hot. I don't know. That's how I always know I'm getting sick is hot eyes, which sounds weird, but I dunno. Look at me with your hot eyes. Yeah, my hot eyes. You have hot eyes. She has a tingly nose. Yeah, I have pressure. All the, yeah. hot Eyes is my nickname in college. Nice. Marina. Hot Eyes. Hot Eyes was my nickname in college. That's a good nickname. That means you have like intriguing eyes. I really, I hate to break this too, Taylor, but that really wasn't her nickname. she's just, she's being funny. Who's being asked? It's a bit, it was a bit Did you have an actual nickname? Did you have an actual nickname in college? For Real? Me? Yeah. Any one of you? Either one of you. Oh no. I just, they called me Tay. Oh, really? A nickname. They actually called me. A lot of my friends called me Q But that's only because. I played a lot of World of Warcraft when I was in college, and so I played with like a bunch of people, like from school that were my friends and all my names always started with a Q in there, so people always would just call me a Q. Nice. Yeah, the hot one. All right. yeah, Taylor, where can they find you online? They can find you at TikTok. at Taylor dot Meine. M-E-D-I-N-E. Yeah. You can also Google her, find her excellent writing multiple articles on multiple different, personal finance websites. She's a great fucking writer. She is Great. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. yeah. I can't wait to do this again with you. Yeah. Yay. Yeah. We'll have to have you I'll back and show. We'll see you guys in two weeks with Morgan. Yeah, that's right. We'll see you. So we're off next week and then May 15th, we'll have Morgan on. So thank you guys for here. We'll be 40 here. Yeah, we're gonna be 40. Yeah. Next time be 40 birthday guys. You ready? All right. We'll see you guys later