Self, self-care out spite is the best to bel. You could rebel by like blowing up your life, but No, you're like, actually I'm gonna make a garden and I'm gonna make it beautiful and fuck you. I am Jamie. And I'm Rebecca. Welcome to the Burnout Collective. Hi. Hello. Listen, you guys, this has been a shit show a little bit, but Elyssa's here. Yeah. In the flesh. Don't look at me. Listen here. The nice thing also about this crowd is we know how to handle a shit show, right? Absolutely. This ain't our first rodeo. No, it's not. No, it's not. so our gu our guest for today is unfortunately sick. and we had the idea to Elyssa's here visiting me, so we had the idea to just bring her on. this has turned into the slumber party where everyone calls their mom at 1130 at night to come pick them up. This is the energy we're bringing. It's true. It's, Hey Ash, marina and Ash were here. Ash, thank you so much for the reason. I'm gonna be like, let's get out the Ouija board and Jamie's gonna be like, let's watch a horror movie. And Rebecca's gonna be like, both of those are satanic. I, Rebecca's going, Rebecca's I have to go to bed, I have to do my red light therapy and then I'm gonna go to bed anyway. Hey everybody. I was like, so we're having a slumber party. Yeah, we're having a slumber party. it was so fun last night we wanted to do it again. Live in front of a studio audience. maybe with less inebriation. we did fashion show. We did snick snacks. We did pet show. Pet show. We did fashion show and stick snacks. We, we saw, we saw your dogs. So what are we talking about today, ladies? Oh yeah. What are we talking about? How to recenter yourself and your life This came about. There we go. Because I feel like in the zy line people are talking about decentering men. if you do you watch the White lot? You didn't watch the third season of White Lotus? I did not. Right. Please the spoilers, I'm caught up. Oh, you, oh, that's right. Me and Rebecca don't care about spoilers anyway, but there's like a group of three friends. This isn't a spoiler. We introduce them, they literally get off the boat in the first episode and we're like, hi, we are three friends, we're white ladies. We've been lifelong besties and we're here to celebrate together. And people talked about how a lot of their interactions are still very like men, like centered around men, even though they're there to hang out with each other. It's like they end up talking about the men in their lives, or like they are flirting with a guy who's there and it's who's gonna hook up with him? and so it just got me thinking about what does it mean to actually de-center kind of who he the other people?'cause I think a lot of us are conditioned mm-hmm. To put other people's expectations and ideas of who we should be front and center. So it's like, what is it to unpack that and make yourself and center yourself in your life. It's really easy to fall into deprioritizing yourself just constantly and not even think about it. Yeah. And prioritizing yourself. We just, we talked about all the different ways that even like the teeniest, tiniest ways that are also prioritizing yourself. That starting with the basics. I feel like this is a time honored tradition is just like bitching about the patriarchy slash men. Yeah. Generalizing about men. A time honored tradition. I think we also said that men always get so angry talking to us because they realize that they're talking to higher evolved life forms and they can't stand and it makes them mad and they try to kill us. Yeah. maybe I think they just feel, I don't know, like on an emotional level. On a spiritual level, I think women are just better. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I like to believe that I am, I was gonna say more willing to like, reflect and have introspection and do the work. I think we're, and dig in because, sorry. Yes. Go continue. Oh, I was just saying,'cause we are already taught from the get go. Like, well women are, you know, they have emotions and feelings, so we're already told like we're too much and men are just taught to stuff it down. So we're already in that head space of fuck, we might as well have these emotion and feelings. And so we do the work and we, yeah, we get to that next evolution. And men are still trying to figure out like whether or not they can cry. Yeah. Maybe I can make'em cry. I'm trying not to give myself a superiority complex. I don't know how much this is helping. is it a superiority complex if it's just the truth? So you'll, you're saying I'm better than all men spoken like a truth, or I'm just kidding. a true and it, Rebecca, here's the thing, even in this conversation, we're like, it's not about being better than men. It's about what does it mean to be my best self by my own definition? We're talking about how to center yourself in your life and how to focus on what you really want and how to take care of yourself by deprioritizing men. We're deprioritizing the culture that should said that last night. It was Yes men. Yeah. Fuck men. And now I'm like, deprioritizing men. And you both are like, not all men, not my like, I feel like we also were like, maybe we don't need to get on the. On the podcast and just be like, we hate men. They are so bad we love some men. They're okay. They'll be fine there. Some men. and I don't think it's men. I think it's, again, I'm like people who uphold the patriarchy, which includes women who s men. Yep. Which includes and it may not white Christian women. And it may not include all men. Like I'm sure there's a lot of men who are working to deconstruct their internalized patriarchy. Yeah. I'm still working to do that. and I think same. I think what you're saying is we're at different points. I think men, because this is just the reality of what it is to be someone who's impacted negatively by an oppressive system. You can see that system a lot more clearly than people who aren't impacted negatively. And so I think we're just in different spots. And maybe that's like where men or people who are socialized as men need to start is like understanding. How have I been taught that just because I am, I grew up male, that I have the, I'm entitled to certain things I'm entitled to be listened to. I'm entitled to take up space. I'm entitled to speak. And how do I start undoing that can wherever I want, eat whatever I want. Yeah. Eat. I'll eat. I heard eat whatever you want. And I'm like, yeah, men do get to eat whatever they want. But yeah, what's really interesting, so their choices aren't just the same. Sorry. Sorry. Hold on. A friend of mine is in therapy and he was saying that his therapist, who is a woman, one of the things that she told him to do is like, when he's feeling something, to put it in a box and save it for later. Okay. With women, it's Hey, let's dig in. Let's deal with this. let's go through this. So even like when they are getting the help that they're supposed to be getting, I don't necessarily think they are getting told the same things that we're being told. And to be told to compartmentalize and lock away that feeling you're feeling Is still upholding that whole patriarchal Yeah. Mindset and like also harming men. Yes. I also feel I don't think compartmentalizing is like the healthiest thing, but I feel like maybe I need to learn to create a container for my feelings. like there are certain points where you need to like, work through your feelings and handle them appropriately. Instead of just like letting them be out all over the place, But then how do you have enemies, Rebecca? I keep on your own private time. That's, I'm saying the enemy. That's thing. You don't, you don't, don't shut it down. She's trying to make it the enemy. You just say, this is my hate. My enemies get revenged fine. She just can't wait. She's sick. Yes. She's like, Elyssa's here. This is the perfect time for us to do our enemies show. And Elyssa's like, I don't really have a lot of enemies. But you know what though? Actually that's a really good point, Elyssa, because maybe starting then with that, maybe that's like teaching them here's a negative. Like maybe it's teaching them to recognize like the difference in emotions and at the very start it's like, Hey, this is a feeling that I don't like to feel. And being able to separate it from the others, maybe that's the beginning for them of Hey, still doesn't seem right. There are different ways to feel. I know. I, that's what I'm saying. I guess what I'm saying is I think that the patriarchy puts shitty expectations on all of this, and it's really key to start saying, instead of figuring out how to live up to patriarchal standards or, and it's not just patriarchal capitalistic standards, productivity standards, are like conditioning that we have from religious experiences. Kind of separating that out enough to say what actually supports me as an individual human? Because I think that the messages we get work for some people, there are some people who compartmentalization really works for them. Or like me, maybe it would've benefited me to have a little more coaching through here's how to manage and contain your emotions when they're really big. That's probably something I could have been coached on. Yeah. And instead I like, I don't know. It's I don't know. It's just weird. and then it's like, you know, creating space. To deconstruct all of the ways you're taught to be and judge yourself and then say, okay, but what actually helps support me as an individual person? How do I center who I am? Right. Well, that's a good point. Yeah. Like how women are always like, oh no, don't be loud. Oh, don't, you're too loud. Or oh, you're talking in a normal voice. Because you have some emotion in your voice, whoa, why are you so angry? You know what I mean? And it's Women are told to like, be quiet and don't cause a scene. and everyone, women especially, but everyone in the world is just make yourself smaller, Yeah. I think this can come out, out with being neurodivergent too. Yeah. Because we're, you know what it's like comes down to unmasking too. Yeah. True. But that's a good point about the making a scene. Because if you think about the eighties and nineties, like romantic movies, they usually ended with a man making a big fucking scene. Like pretty a woman. He's just climbing up the trees and being like, ah. So that was like the only fucking spoiler, the only accepted emotions are bitch, I swear to God it's been 70 years. If they don't know too bad, but or, running through the airport and love actually, or just or even in big fights, like it's those two main feelings. Yeah. If they're able, if they're allowed to have feelings, they have to make a big deal about it. Whereas women, like you said, are just told to, make it small and don't make it seem so it's still acceptable for them to do it. Yeah. and it's centered on other people's experience in that situation. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Not like what serves me, because it's healthy sometimes to have the difficult conversations doing it in a kind and healthy way, but yeah. Keeping it in or not addressing stuff is when it's not, it's an authentic and two, it harms you, I think. Yeah. It's harmful. Mm-hmm. To whoever's sucking it down. Yeah. Then literally drop ahead. Yes. They literally dropped outta party attacks because they just give up. And I think it creates a lot of loneliness too, because it teaches us to be not vulnerable. I hate the whole, men don't have friends epidemic, but they really genuinely don't, I don't think a lot of men do have friends and they don't have the support. And there's literally three of us right here talking to each other constantly and just being our own support group and yeah. I don't see that for men. Yeah. Yeah. it is there in some places and here or there, but I would like to see a lot more of that. Yeah. Like men having ver like super close bonds and being able to talk about their feelings with each other. Oh. But then they're gonna think they're gay. Good. So I feel like one of the ways that we have centered ourselves is like starting to build a support system or like a family or like a chosen family in a group. Yeah. That's aligned with our personal values. That get us, that support us, that we can show up authentically with we don't have to mask, we don't have to perform, we can be vulnerable and hold space for each other. Perfect. Yeah. It is. Yeah. We've been talking about that a lot this week about how like, and even some women don't have this, and that's part of, we were talking about why that's part of why we created the Burnout Collective is, or a big reason actually one of the biggest reasons is community and being there for each other. And supporting each other and talking about like how we're feeling when we're like laid off and can't find a job, or like we're having a hard time at work or we're having a hard time at home with our kids, with our spouse, with mental illness. And I just think that's really important. And we're very lucky in that, like we have, or at least I'll speak for myself. I'm very lucky in that I have such a great supportive group of friends and a lot of you are badass fucking women. So I am surrounded by, when I was a teenager I was so like tomboy-ish and I was so just whatever, like I just can't be friends with girls and I'm only friends with boys and Yeah. It's embarrassing. It's not embarrassing. I think we all have a pick me era, I get it. Did you just call me a pick me? Yes. At one point I'm gonna call you. And I did because I was just like, Nope, don't say it. But that's exactly what that is. The pick me girl. No, I'm not criticizing you. I think that's part of working through your pat. I think for me that was how it got internalized. Yeah. For me it looked a lot like when I started dating, I literally would tell people that I was an anti-feminist. Oh my God. Isn't that No. Oh God. Now that I would, when I was a teenager, I was dumb. Yeah, no, I get it. I probably wouldn't, I probably would've said I wasn't feminist either. I guess I didn't say I'm anti feminism, but I was like, I'm not a feminist. Yeah. I was like, I don't believe in that because like I was dumb and I didn't know what feminism meant truly meant, which is how, honestly, a lot of adult men I still talk to now presently don't know, don't understand exactly what feminism means. For any of you who don't know what feminism means, if you have a py Meera Rebecca, not that she's gonna tell us about. I don't, that's fine. You know what, Elyssa, I did a lot of sitting in my room reading in my window sill and eating hunks of cheese and bread like they did in the fantasy novel books and just a lot of weird shit. And playing with Barbies at 13. So I'm want go with probably was not, I love this too. I would not be surprised if neither boys or girls wanted to be friends, but I wasn't like trying to get with these boys. I was, I literally, I just wanted to be like one of the guys, Yeah. Feminism is, you want everything to be equal for everyone. Point blank period. It's not even equality. It's e it's, but I think equity as well. Yeah. And we also want to undo the negative impacts of the patriarchy. Yeah. Feminism is not about lifting women up and being like, women are better than men and we need, we deserve more Yeah. And I think that a lot of men, again, what we're talking about with deconstructing our patriarchal thinking or our capitalist thinking is something that would benefit everybody. I think people who are socialized as men would benefit just as much from sitting with what stories was I told about what it means to be me and Which stories fit and are aligned with my values and what I, who I want to be and which don't. And I think that I had to do that very overtly as a woman, right? becoming a mom and like really challenging ideas I had of what it meant to be a good mom or what it meant to be a good, spouse. Spouse, like these kinds of things. and I just don't know that, again, that awareness is there for men because of how they're socialized, but this is an invitation of maybe think about that and reflect on that. It's wild that people don't seem to have that mindset at this point. And it's really unfortunate that our society today doesn't form these thoughts and viewpoints by default. Yes. 1000. I love this. So we talked about values. So I think that it's like we've talked about like deconstructing, and by that like pulling out the scripts that you're given Of what it means to be a good person, what it means to be a good worker. What it, like all the roles that were and what you believe in too. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. It's almost like when you're born you're kinda like cast into a play that we're all participating in and you're like handed a script with certain roles and characters you're meant to play. And I think a lot of what I'm talking about with deconstructing is like really pulling out the script and like rewriting it and saying the director's but you can make it your own. it's like the director being like, you can make it your own a little bit. So like improv and do what you think. So you're like editing your script, the script being how you were raised. Yeah. You're conditioning and ideology and and I think it's like you start by editing it and maybe rewriting certain parts of it, but I think it gets to the point where you're like, what even is this play? That I'm in? What's it about? What do, like I don't wanna be here anymore. that's a lot of what it means to center yourself, I think is Yeah. Identifying what it means for you to live a good life. What is it? What is your life that's worth living look like? Because it's gonna be different and it's gonna be individual. And so yeah. A life worth living. Yeah, like a life that, that you think is worth living. Not what society thinks, not what your parents think, not what your spouse or kids think maybe sometimes. And, yeah. yeah, and we talked too just about the ways you can prioritize yourself even in like small ways. Like we were talking about, just like small ways that we can like, prioritize ourself and do what we, not what we want and not depend on somebody else for our happiness or our worth. I was talking about, for example, when I got laid off, there was just a lot of emotions and also just a lot of I think without, at the risk of sounding very woowoo, a lot of healing I had to do. And so I did have to take some time to heal. And then when I did, or even when I was in the process of doing so, I was looking at these resumes I was sending out and I was looking at my website and it was all very like surface level. And it was very just I'm going, it was like Jamie going through the motions of, here is my resume, this is what I do, I am an editor. Words, words. And I. I was like, I should redo this. So it's more me. So not only is it like, hey, this is, these are my, this is my skillset, this is my experience. this is what I'm good at, but also this is what I love to do. This is the kind of thing I'm looking for. and that goes for a role in a company because especially today, now presently, it's the most important time for you to, if you can be picky and choosy about who gets your money, about who you work for and who you're making money for. but, so I spent a lot of time reworking all that, and I got it to a place where I was like, I'm proud of it. Instead of I'm just like, yeah, here's my website and resume. I am like, I'm proud of it. And it says who I am as a person a little bit, as well as just my professional experience basically. And to me that was me just like prioritizing myself. And yeah, I dunno, I think it's really validating when you make spa, when you just do the work of clearing out space. To say, I deserve to be seen in my authenticity, like as who I naturally am and I get to be a whole human at work in job burning views. Like wherever you are, you get to bring your whole humanity and your authentic self. Yeah. Okay. So listening to the two of you talk, it's interesting to me because I'm trying to think through, but in, in my experience, and I think this is just coming from the autism perspective, I've shown up as me my entire life and and it's, I've been told like the, it's too much, but you don't, it's like you don't know how to show up any other way. And, for me it's not been like finding yourself or recentering, it's been a lot of hiding and like back. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying that I, it's, I'm not trying to say that I was finding myself, I'm not finding myself. I've fucking found myself a while ago. I'm saying that I wanted to put more out there about who I am as a person instead of just, here is my resume and like portfolio and here are the things I'm good at for work because we do hide parts of ourselves at work. anyway, I just wanted to make that clear that I wasn't saying, I was like finding myself. I, and it's interesting to what you're saying, Rebecca, because I do think there's something, I think this is where being neurodivergent comes in. When you're neurodivergent, you can't really perform the play the script. It's almost like you can't even read it. Yeah. You don't really know what people expect of you. And the way that other people are able to understand that, like neurotypical people. But then it's you can still see it. You just don't know what the expecta, like you don't know what it is, but you still see, it's like something about how people respond to you is off. And it sounds like for you, you did respond a little bit with hiding, and I relate to that too, of like feeling really ashamed of being goofy or loud or how we present ourselves. And so I'm curious if you feel like you did start to mask over time or just like you say, hide a little more and if maybe Yeah, yeah. I think that's why I was so confused. Not confused, but just not connecting. When you guys were talking about, it's like a play.'cause it's yeah, I've been trying to figure out what the fucking rules are since I was, you know what I mean? Like, I, I, it's never been clear what we were in or if it was a place, So I think as I got a little bit older, I have coping mechanisms, but I don't know, like I, I've still really struggled. ma there are certain masking things, but just as a person, it's like I've always just been like, here. Mm-hmm. And. it's good or bad. And most of the time it's usually bad for a lot of people, but, it's just I love it. I just show up too much too fast, but I don't know any other way. That's how you find your people that also feel like they show up too much too fast. Yeah. Same, I, me and Jamie were talking about when we first met and you said you were like, you seem like you had a lot going on and you were thinking about it. And I think it was like the third time we had lunch together and I was like, so you grew up in, you grew up like religious, right? let's talk about, let's talk about religious drama. Let's unpack that real quick. Let's just unpack it. And you're like, we just met, here's my pocket lizard. Let's be friends. Exactly. So I relate to showing up like a little too intensely at first. Exactly. and having that sense of okay, clearly I'm not meeting the expectation, but what is the expectation? Even no one's explained this to me. Thanks for the follow. welcome. So that really resonates for me too. Welcome. Burnout. and to me, recentering looks like making my world a accommodate, putting accommodations into my world that let me move through the world the way I need to. Instead of trying, so it's not, I don't that it's it isn't recentering, it's just making the self, making myself the main character as far as what I need. Yes. And not trying to follow the play or live or make myself follow the play. It's just like I. I'm not doing any of that. And here it is. So yeah. that's been a lot of just making sure I do what works for me and then being okay with that. and that's how you not giving a shit yourself, people aren't Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that's just in the past few years, like that's what I've really focused on just, and I wanna do that for my kid too, because I don't ever want her to feel like autism is like something that you should be doing anything other than just fucking existing. Yeah. yeah. or the ways that we're like a lot of coping mechanisms for a long time that were taught to people with a DH, adhd. Or autism. Were all about prioritizing everyone else's convenience or comfort around you. It was, Hey, can you calm down so that we can be comfortable? Can you, quit talking about this? I don't find it interesting. As opposed to actually connect, like building that shared connection. It was like, again, forcing kind of neurotypical standards on neurodivergent people doesn't work and it's really harmful. So aba, I'm sorry. Yeah. A BA therapy is a therapy type that they use on neurodivergent kids and it's literally teaching them how to act. It's like how to have, this is your learning and behavior and this is how you behave as a person in the world. it is teaching them like, Hey, you're in a play and this is who you are. And so then they're lost to themselves for the longest time. Like it's super fucking harmful. Yeah. It doesn't teach you, it doesn't teach you to accom to make accommodations or ask for'em. It teaches you to like, essentially teaches you to mask Yeah. To mask to perform. Yep. hide more. Yeah. It's hey, you didn't get the script, so we're gonna, we're gonna coach you through it, as opposed to What role do you wanna have in your life? do you wanna be the creative, do you wanna be the scientist? something that's helped me work through this for myself too is sitting with the question of what are my personal values? What's important to me that's unique or that's not unique. That's okay, this is something everyone cares about. And even thinking about things like archetypes has helped me think about what are the kind of roles, because they're not one size fits all, but there's a lot more roles than we talk about that are available. Yeah. So thinking what roles would I wanna play in the world? What impact do I wanna have? What would I like to contribute? And also what makes, again, what makes me feel like myself and like happy. Like what, what makes me feel like I'm waking up with purpose and enough joy and goodness in my life that yeah, I can handle being alive today. I remember at work that there was just some shit going on and I was talking to my dad about it and it was like, it was bad and I was affected by it and was upset that it was happening. And he was like, are you sure this is an emotional codependence. And it was like, no, I'm pretty sure this is just being mad about shit that's happening in the world. That's terrible. but it's like that kind of moving through the world and when you do find out what's important to you, you still get people who are like, are you sure? It's not like this kind of bad thing. It's like, no, no, this is important. And that's interesting too, is I think that, what you're talking about is actually I think a little bit of a boundaries thing where We like are looking to other people to tell us about ourselves and we almost trust what they say. Yes, thank you about us and our intent more than we believe our own intent. And I had an experience at work that was like this where I was, they'd made some changes that I felt were really unfair to the writers and were really stressing everybody out. Mm-hmm. And I was kind of being a stick in the mud about it because I was just like, this is not working and I just need to be real honest with that. Mm-hmm. Because. I am try. I'm genuinely giving this a good faith effort and it's not working. I feel like the changes you made are genuinely making everyone do way more work and making the work more stressful than they were and harder it was. That's true. It was. But that's the thing is eventually it got to a point where I had this difficult conversation with my manager and they took it in a way where they're like, you're trying to cause problems, you're being disruptive to the team, or you're trying to get less work. Yes. That's something that I've run into a lot for me. Yeah. Where like they view your intent of they don't, they don't really view, so I know I'm work operating in good faith. But like they didn't, there was not that assumption of intent and part of why that, and that messed me up. I had a breakdown. That's when I initially went to therapy was over this situation and I realized, as I processed this afterward, I realized part of what was so damaging about that was that this guy told, this manager told me about who I had been at work and what my intent was, and I believed him over my own self despite having that day-to-day experience of I'm just really frustrated, this isn't working. Mm-hmm. I'm not trying to be as sick in the mud, I'm just trying to help myself and my coworkers be able to function well in our jobs. It was like, to him, he was just so upset about it and the situ, it was like, I don't know. and I think that's really hard is to like hand people's stuff back to them and draw that boundary of Just because you don't get what I'm trying to do here doesn't make it not what I'm trying to do. Yeah. Thank you. That's a much more eloquent way of the point that I was trying to make. Yeah. People be projecting, Elyssa goes, yeah, no, yeah, I know. No, I just heard what you said and I was like, yeah, whatever. I'm a comically friend. Okay. Thank you guys. Let me have my shining moments. And we talked about too, like getting comfortable with who you are and being comfortable, like doing things without other people and just being in the quiet And stillness with just you and learning to be okay and even appreciative of that. And enjoy your own self. Yeah. Even if you're an extrovert. Yeah. Elyssa, I, no, that's true. I really value alone time. And it's really funny because even as an extrovert, like my alone time's gonna look different than your alone time. I really going to a coffee shop by myself and sitting and I'm still around people. I'm still feeling like I'm part of my community. So it's filling me up in that I'm not stuck at home and feeling trapped. That's helpful in that way. But I'm also like prioritizing myself. I have a, some, like a, something I wanna journal about or a project that I'm working on. And Rebecca, you had mentioned that part of how what you do for this is like taking time off of work. For yourself. Yep. Yep. I just, I give myself either half days or full days and I, again, I forget about them. And then it's a fun little surprise, but I spend the day doing whatever the fuck I want and sometimes it's, and it's not'cause my kid is like lying in bed all day. Yes. It's not a family emergency. It's not'cause I'm going on vacation. It's just like a little special treat day for a little special guy kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And you get your house to yourself. You actually get to be alone while everyone's at school or at work. I get to watch stupid movies. I get to cuddle on the couch with the dogs. And the other thing I've noticed is I've really stopped, I can't remember the last time that I've been like, I hope everything at work is okay. Or being afraid to take the day off. I'm like, fuck yes, I'm taking the day off. Oh my God, you're growing. And I'm so proud of you. I know. Because it's I'm gonna get laid off anyway, whether or not I'm there and I would rather enjoy this time to myself. And so that's made it, especially that, that time is, that has made the time I take off spec more special because it's like I actually enjoy it and I don't have a nagging voice at the back of my head. Mm-hmm. That's really nice. It's like you, you created those internal boundaries of that's this is my time. Not Yeah. Yeah. And that's so important because you can, when you do, like we've talked, you've talked about this on the podcast, when you do that intellectual work, you take your brain with you. So it's if it's in your brain, you're working everywhere. So being able to Exactly. Have that internal boundary of no, I'm not thinking about that. That's now it's fucking hard's hard. It took me years to develop that. What's that been like for you? It's been very difficult. I think just within, you can correct me if I'm wrong. Rebecca, but I think I helped Rebecca A. Little bit start to pull away and take days off because she was never taking even like vacation days. Yeah. And, yeah. Or for you, like I know when I was applying for jobs a lot, I had to set a good enough standard with myself. Yes. To be like, yeah, once I have done good enough, once I've applied to certain jobs a day Whatever my goal is, I get to stop thinking about it. I get to step away. I like, I'm still gonna worry about it, but as much as I'm not gonna choose to worry about it. If it comes up in my brain, if it's like, Ugh, groceries, I gotta pay for them. I don't have a job. that's gonna happen, but I'm not gonna sit there and stew about it. Hopefully. I think we talked about this in our productivity episode, but one other thing that I do to help prioritize my shit is I started, and that's something I just started within the last like year or two, probably just a year. Is, you have your meetings for work, you have your work calendar with all your meetings and everything. I started blocking for my personal shit. If I was gonna go meet a friend for dinner, I'd add it to my calendar. Oh my gosh. Her mind is blown. She's, I've never done this. I've tried, but not recently. it's great. blocking off Genius. When we were starting to discuss what we were gonna do before the Burnout Collective was the Burnout Collective, blocked off that time every Saturday. And I also put that specifically on my work calendar so I could see, you know what, this sucks. But that's what I get at the end of the week. Sorry. It's like I'm trying to like squish your face or something. No. but at the end of the, like during the week, I just look at that and I'm like, sweet. I get to hang out with, my best friend and talk about our business and like what we want to do. And be creative and do what we want for us and the community. That's it. That is, isn't it? the freedom to do what I want, like at work, we don't get to do what we want. Yeah. And not, and even on days off sometimes. Yeah. And not needing anyone's buy-in, Yeah. We talked about doing things like going to coffee shop, but you talked about going to a movie by yourself or Rebecca does that. Not skipping like a concert just because you can't find a friend who wants to go with. And that's hard to do. I was telling them I went to a music festival. My partner at the time would not go with me, wasn't interested. I didn't have any friends that were interested. And it was also like expensive too. So like I can't expect like everyone to be like, yeah, I'm gonna drop this much on this three day music festival. last minute, my sibling ended up coming with me for the last day, but for those three days I didn't know anyone. I just I think I posted on socials and asked at work if anybody was going. And luckily I had a couple friends who were, who were going. So like I got to see them and then I went with one of my other friends who was very gracious to hang out with me. I think Cinnamon roll.'cause I was just, yeah, I dunno. A lot older. I was a lot older than Chris. you were steepest some shimmy with the Hello Fellow kids? Yeah. The skateboard over your shoulder basically. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, we're at a concert. I was like, there's our friend Greg. Hi Greg. He's stop it. It was more like stomach. Hi Greg. Just let Greg go. If we see him later, we see him later. But even that is that's totally something I would do. I don't know. I don't, that's not something I would normally do is go to a concert or a movie by myself. Oh. I meant yelling across a crowd to get someone's attention. Yeah. Yeah. That's very, it's everyone's embarrassment. Yep. But I don't know, I'm tired of managing everyone in this house, and everyone at work. At work and at, yeah. I just wanna go away where no one can ask me a question. I. And talk to me and I get to like again. Yeah, you're right. It's just doing what you want. I get to make my own choices for me and I don't have to make'em for anyone else or tell anyone what to do, but myself. And yeah. I think it's like boundaries too. Oh, do you keep saying that? Boundaries where it'll leave. I'm sorry About boundaries. I guess boundaries is like we No, I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I know. I don't no. It's not about you not having bad, it's like it's something that's been really hard for me to work and I think it's everything we're talking about. Yeah. Like it's about understanding where I end and other people begin understanding that's your work Yes. To do or that's your life to manage. And also because I'm trying to like manage your life. What is going unattended in mine? What is right? what needs are. Just I'm abandon. In what ways am I just abandoning myself to manage everyone around me And I think that's a very common experience for a lot of people and especially women. Yeah. So yeah. Marina. Yeah. Marina says it's easier to openly weep at the movies when you go by yourself. That's true. Also, it's go by yourself. You can get what you want. You don't have to share your popcorn or your pretzel. I did go see Wicked at the holidays with some family members. And I was like so annoyed walking outta there.'cause I literally was like, I can, I just sit down and just cry for 10 minutes straight? And I felt like I couldn't. Oh no. I probably should have. Yeah. But I'm also like, we are like trying to celebrate Christmas together as a family. That maybe not that, maybe that was the container moment. It's okay. I don't need to, I don't know who needs to hear this. Yes, Elyssa. Yes. But it's okay to openly cry at movies. Also though, does Aunt Elyssa need to be sitting down and crying, like bawling for 10 minutes straight? And how will that impact if you were my aunt, I would be like, Aw. I'd just be like, oh cool. An adult that actually has emotions. Maybe. Maybe I'll try it next time. Kids, I'll try it next time. Are there any kids here? Kids, what do you think? What do you think when you're, when your mother cries? Yeah. Your children actually. Yeah. My children. and that's a good point. I feel like the really interesting thing as a parent is because of my kids are socialized so differently than me. they're the pre people who remind me of my values because they've been raised in alignment with them. And so sometimes it has been my kids reminding me it's okay to cry. It's okay to feel like it's okay to, we all get grumpy sometimes. And sometimes they're the ones being like, contain it. Contain it. and still sometimes we cry in front of I'll cry in front of you guys sometimes and just be like, yeah. And be like, I'm sorry. It's like why it's a default to apologize for it. No, again, like when she cries, I steal her tears. My kids don't, I watch em look at me to you bet. Get an emotional check-in. if I'm crying or like I watch her check me to see like what, to read the emotional temperature. you're like, pick me. I know. you're like, I'm autistic too. Don't pick me. Just kidding. I know. I'm glad your kids are like, it's okay to cry because we're just like so well, and I think part of and not a good person to watch for that. I think part of it too is you, when you start giving yourself permission to do things, you can like communicate that permission to people. So yes, kids just don't know what to do when you're crying. They're like, what's happening? The person I count on for everything is upset it. So then when I have gotten to the place of acceptance, I say, can say, Hey, I'm having a hard time. I'm just gonna cry.'cause that's honestly the best option available to me right now. And also it's okay. It'll help me just let it out. Yep. And so just gimme a minute. Honestly, most people should, people should cry more in public. this is how I'm helping myself right now. You don't help have to do anything because this is the help. Now she tell me if you want, I've been doing shit for three days and she is don't. And again, I don't know that would work for every kid. That's what works with me and my kids. I don't wanna act like this is like a universal solution. Oh no. Yeah, I get it. I'm joking with you. In case you didn't know. I didn't, I don't think I even heard it. you just roast me constantly. I don't know. I roast everybody constantly. I would cry in public if it was accepted. This is JJ by the way. I would cry in public. I think more people should cry in public. But it is yeah, we have that like fear of people are, yeah. I'm the wrong person to be in this conversation because again, as I had an tic meltdown in the DC Metro and was sobbing uncontrollably, just the entire way through, that's what I mean. It's just like going through the world, just like blah, just ugly. And but have you not wanted to cry out in public and not cried? I literally cried live on this podcast, so I don't know what you're talking about. There's no evidence of that. There's no, she's my best friend ever, Jamie. So I think that's part of it. Yeah. I wonder like, how do we create space for ourselves to cry in public? we need crying spaces in public. But then you still inter like every DMV should have a crying building next to it with a courtyard. Like a nice fountain, honestly. And we can Starbucks, we can all sit by the fountain and every Starbucks. Oh yeah, Starbucks is a good one. They need to do some re Oh, it should be like Starbucks where there's one on every corner. Look, they just could be their reparations for being awful as a company. Yeah. I say imagine crying at Starbucks, the barista, which is like, ew, what is the wrong with her? She's crying. ma'am, you're gonna have to leave cause you ma'am, ma'am, ma'am. Rebecca's fm mim. You just, you can't do that. Here you are making the other patrons uncomfortable. Patrons get out. Yeah. Marina says, I just cry on company time. Get paid for my tears, which I love. Coincidentally, that's also what Marina does with pooping. this is, yeah, all bodily functions happen on company time. All of them. Yeah. But I think that part of the reason that we're not comfortable crying in public or that we hold it in is because we have that experience of being shamed. And I'm wondering, I think part of centering yourself is kind of handing people shame back to them and saying, cool, that you're uncomfortable with this. I feel perfectly felt like it's a perfectly fine and acceptable thing to cry in public. Like I this, and I almost am thinking about it as rehumanizing myself, giving myself permission, be fully human wherever I am, and handing that shame back to people or the judgment back to people and saying, just because you judged me for crying in public that's your thing. Yeah, I know this is okay, and I know there's nothing wrong with this. And so that's the thing too, is like sometimes you can't stop crying in public because you do get emotional. But then it's like managing the aftermath of, am I gonna sit here and feel embarrassed and ashamed, or am I gonna be like, that was okay? This is normal human, this is me coaching myself. Like I literally do this. I sit here and be like, it's okay to be human. Yeah. It's okay to need to have feelings. JJ says, it's very scary for people to feel judged, which is very likely to happen in public, especially if you become vulnerable. And a way of becoming vulnerable is crying. Exactly. Vulnerability is a lot of it. Yeah. Have you ever, have either of you ever seen someone out in public crying, not like a child, but like an adult and gone up to them like a stranger? Not that I can think of specifically, but I think I have either seeing someone check on it, check on them, or like I've been like, Hey, are you doing okay? can I help? A lot of times people say no. Yeah, I've done that a handful of times in my life, and sometimes it's a struggle. Because I don't wanna make them feel like, because I know that's such a vulnerable thing, right? And so if I, if somebody's crying in public, I feel like this is bad. So I think that's why I get the pull to like. Go say something. I don't, it's not that I see people crying in public often, I really don't. But a handful of times I have, and I think like a couple of the times it was like welcomed and they were just like, yeah, I'm okay. I just have to get this out or whatever. One of the times they were probably like, oh, my credit card doesn't work and I can't pay for my gas and blah blah. And I'm like, okay, you're fine. Here's like the$5. but there has been a time where they've been like, no, I don't need anything. please, which re respect, but it's hard at least for me to see that and not check on the person. Yeah. I think that speaks to as well the ways that we're taught to see or not see other people or if we're taught like how we're, like how we internalize the versions of us that are okay to be seen and how comfortable we are being seen or not seen. Like again, it goes back to that per performance feeling of am I living and experiencing my life or am I always thinking about how I'm being perceived? and my sister and I even talked about this with when it comes to religious trauma, but like we're taught like God is a voyeur and he's just always watching you. Yeah. And for me at least, I internalized that in this way of like constantly checking of what would God think of my choices? What, having this Audi invisible audience for all the choices I was making and centering that guy's opinion over what I thought. And so that's a lot. But I think we all have a lot of versions of what would my dead grandma think about me and who I've become? Would she be proud of me? Would she be not? You know, and yeah, pat says, I actively avoid being seen at all costs. And JJ says, that's respectable. Love it. What are you thinking, Rebecca? No, I'm still working on it. Come back to me. Yeah. Okay. I think some of being seen too, we talked about like prioritizing your own taste and how you present yourself and how you make choices, like Making shaving my legs optional. Making wearing makeup. Optional. Yeah. Yeah. Making it so that I can choose to not wear makeup and not feel like I feel a little more put together. And it's easier to be seen if I'm wearing makeup, but. I'll show up to a work meeting without makeup and not, I want, I don't feel, I don't think about it anymore. It's not even it's this is fine. People can see my naked face. Yeah. It's not, Yeah. It's not offensive. I'm saying. Yeah. like I agree with that, yeah, totally. And you don't have to, that's the thing is yeah. For me that was important. It's what you're, yeah. What you're comfortable with what you want. no. I know. I just, no, and it, that's what I mean. I was just like nodding along, I do that too, and I'm being a fucking hypocrite. I do not. That's okay. It's okay. We knew you were lying. I know. I knew I was lying and call myself out on that. Yeah. But even I don't know, should I dye my gray hair? I actually noticed for the first time Ever that you have some like pretty silver hairs. I have so many gray hairs right now. It doesn't look like that many that, but dude, they're so sparkly. They are. They're beautiful. I know. I think they're really cute. I like summer hairs. It took me a long time to get my mom to stop dying her hair, as if it was like up to me. But I'm glad she did. I think she looks beautiful just like that. I think. I really think gray hair's beautiful. Yeah. One day I'll figure out if I have gray hair or Yeah. What? Yeah. And just. Not doing the male gaze thing as much, hopefully. No, you're just doing what you want. It's, I think we were talking about that earlier. It's like I've, it's been so the past couple years of going, I don't wanna do that. And just not, or I want to do this and just doing what you wanna do. it's, I don't care if anyone else doesn't like it, I like, you know what I mean? Yeah. It's just that it's so freeing. Or you don't have to, you don't have to spend your time doing shit. You don't.'cause we're, again, I think I said earlier, we're all gonna be dead anyway, so I don't wanna spend my time doing shit I don't wanna do. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's it too. just like we're getting older and we're like, why? How many, yeah. How many hours of my life am I spending on shit that I don't care about? And again, some people love the skincare. That's, feels like skincare. It feels like love, it feels like all these things. And for other people, they're like, Rebecca, just some moisturizer on and be done. I love skincare. I'm not gonna lie, I do that. but it's really interesting. I don't know. Yeah. I think anytime that you take care of yourself also, it's like a, I've thought about this too, of centering yourself sometimes is as simple as giving yourself a front row seat to watching yourself. Put yourself first or make your treat yourself as if you matter and you're important. And that can be like. prioritizing the things that you care about. keeping promises to yourself, like following through on your like, oh, I always wanted, that's a big one. Do this. That's a big, and you talked about this, Rebecca, of how in your house that you're in now, one of the things that you like, wanted to do was start a garden and you'd, had you been thinking about that for a long time? Oh yeah. when we were living in Arizona, it's like we had what could grow out there, but it's just like you couldn't really do much with it, you know? And so it was when we were moving back to, to Washington State, we kept talking about what we wanted to plant and, what we wanted to see when we looked out in the backyards. And one of the things they have around here is you can get your yards, certified as like a wildlife, oh fuck not sanctuary. I don't know what it's called, but it's like it's it's all native stuff. And so I was like, I want that. Like, it was just wild and free and fun, and it just looked so lush and I was like, I just wanna plant whatever I wanna plant. And so our yard is this weird hodgepodge of all different shit, but I hodgepodge, hodgepodge of just all different shit. But it's it makes me happy and I love looking at it and again, I will say this out loud, Rob does the heavy lifting, I do the direction and management. So just, I don't wanna like. Stole gardening valor. Oh please. Speaking of reparations, you said little ferns growing in your wall and the hummingbirds come and visit. We had a hummingbird like yes. Remember when I told you Elyssa and I were having like therapy and I was crying? Me too. And we took turns. Yeah. That was earlier today. And my window was open and my back was to the window, but she was facing it over here and she was like, look. And a hummingbird was just there staring at us. Yeah. It's so cute. It stayed there for 30, look at this seconds. Two was like, no, it was like, Jamie, why don't you ever fucking feed us anymore? What is wrong with you? I'm like, depression. Which I then called back to Rebecca's conversation'cause you were like my neighbor again, centering ourselves. My neighbors say don't feed the hummingbirds. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's a huge thing. Don't fucking feed the birds here. Don't feed the birds because it makes them lazy and fat. And I'm like, I will feed the, I love seeing it's everywhere. Like every fucking forum, every, it's don't feed the birds. It's bad for them. And I'm like, I will feed the goddamn birds if I want. Yeah. Because A, it's food for them and I see them and I love them and it's bought like blue jays and we have a all black one with orange F. Like it's just fucking cool to watch an Oreo. I sound so old right now. No you don't. You sound like a dizzy princess. Actually. No, it was a squirrel. She's a Disney. So you sound it. So you sound 17 I'll, I will feed the God birds if I want to. Yes. And I will give the crows peanuts and I will feed the squirrels and. I want my yard to be like a happy place where everyone has a snack. And I like looking at it. I can't hear you when you talk fuckers. I am literally talking to myself. Oh, perfect. I'm so sorry. I'll ignore it. Then. I'm literally over here just like singing a rendition of about birds of it's my party and I'll cry if I want to. And I was just like singing it very quietly and I'm sorry. I, yeah. Feeding wildlife with non appropriate food is really bad, but with bird seed and sue it, et cetera, it's perfectly fine. Exactly. Yeah. That's what we're talking about. We're not like, here's that bunch of white, wonder Bread ate this Hummingbird. Hummingbird. Yeah. but I love what you talked about too, because okay, how you're talking about it, you're like, I'm gonna put what I want in my backyard and I'm not really gonna care. And that's so powerful that I love that too, because it's like, who even experiences your garden the most? It's, you, like people will come over and see it, but you're the person who's staring at it every freaking day. Yeah. So it makes sense to make it exactly what fills you up and what makes you feel good and you ha and you feel like I can step outside and have a moment. It's like your body and your image. Like it should be what makes you happy and what makes you comfortable. Yeah. And also what serves your needs like. I'm sure you go into your garden. I can imagine that you go into your garden and it's like your nervous system responds and then the birds braider hair, you feel calmer. Like you, I think there's a lot of wisdom in what we want. Like you knew on some level there's something about having a garden, having it a certain way. Yeah. That fool fulfill me and like, I fucking love that you just went forward and did it without like, uh oh, you know what Elyssa, I hear you and I so appreciate that take. I can't wait for as you were talking. Wait. Yeah, it's actually just spite because our HOA is made up of a bunch of dicks and so I just want, even the front yard, it's just filled with a shit ton of flowers and weird shit everywhere. And I, I actually think what I'm doing is spite based. Yes. And not internal joy based. See, but Rebecca, but that's what makes you happy is being spiteful. That is true. That is true. Okay. I That is very true. You know what? Let's wait Rebecca. What healthy I am doing makes happy. What a healthy way to respect your demand. Avoidance. Right? Self, self-care out spite is the best to bel. You could rebel by like blowing up your life, but No, you're like, actually I'm gonna make a garden and I'm gonna make it beautiful and fuck you. There's again, there's even wisdom in that there's something there that you need. You need to know what I care about. Like what matters to me matters more than the HOA. Yeah. that's a way to center yourself. Yes. Do you take care of yourself outta spite ever? I'm just laughing that we're talking about I love it. Yeah. Saying fuck you to the h hoa you brought yourself that shower head like you did take care of yourself outta spite. Oh yeah. That's out of spite. Wait, why is that outta spite. No, you're right. Maybe not.'cause you didn't have a job and you were still like, you were like, I'm gonna buy it anyway. And. I thought I bought it. Was I already laid off. Did you? I literally am like, I think, don't you buy it for personal time reasons? Is that what we're saying? Many reasons. Oh, no, it's, no, that's what I thought she was getting at. And I was like, what are you? no. And I was like, why Spite though. Dirty Minds. Cheers. I think this is for me, a part, been a part of like my anti-capitalist deconstruction that I'm going through. And I know like deconstruction's, whatever, but just like deprogramming myself from capitalism has been, giving myself permission to do things that are a waste of time, simply because they make me happy. And I think for you, like the gardening, that's what resonated to me about the gardening. And for me it's looked a lot. Yeah. you're crocheting, right? Yes. Like you're making like a ton. Mm-hmm. I've been crocheting lately. I'm not making a ton because I'm making a lot of mistakes, so there's a lot of gotta back up. Okay. Making progress. Oh, that looks bad. Gotta back up. But I'm learning. Its really nice. That's like us with the podcast, and I could explain all the benefits of crocheting, but let's, we don't need to do that. Just know that, like I get so much out of it. It's so relaxing. I feel creative. you want help girl? I know a guy. See, I told you it. Me, she's the guy. Yeah, that's right. Fair enough. Jeremy told me you crochet. I would love that. Let's do it. but like crocheting or for a while it was like painting. And even when I was painting, like I would notice, I really like painting flowers. So when you said hellebore, I know exactly what that is because I painted a lot of flowers and so I painted hellebore. Mm-hmm. And it is fucking gorgeous. I love it. But even when I was painting flowers, I felt is this serious art? Is this make, is this good? Is this too girly? Is this too this too that? And or even as I started painting a lot, having people say oh, are you gonna sell your paintings? Are you gonna like, you know, like having kind of this inherent question of is this thing worth doing if you're not monetizing it? And I know they weren't. I don't think that was their intent. But I do think there's that inherent like assumption of if what you're doing isn't to make money, that was one of those. It's to, you have to make it worthwhile. It's not worth, you have to make it. Yeah. It's not like you having a, something you having a good time is not enough inherent value. You need to also be earning money, which is true. Ironic because making money from it is exactly what makes me fucking hate it. Yes. It's like meeting Shady Vance. Yeah. And then dying the next day. You said ironic. I have to, I hope my death is that epic. I really do. I really do. That. That would be petty as fucking dying out of, dying, out of spite. So that's how Rebecca will die. Speaking of centering myself, I tell you what, that guy died and nobody could talk about anything else. So good for him. No, good for the Pope. That'll show him the old Pope. He loves me. I hope I, when I die, everyone talks about me for a week. Matt, JD Vance died the next, and Jamie sings a parody song about my death. I would love to. Goals. Oh, I would love to. Oh listen. Rebecca's death, like her funeral, is gonna be this multimedia event. I have kept so many voicemails and voice messages, photos, videos, video messages. Rebecca, how do you feel about this? She loves it. She's smart. Really? I mean, she's dead again. I will. I'm sorry. I She will eat it. Okay. I love this. Okay. you can help and I would tell you what I think to your face anyway, so I'll let you use theor a voicemail. That's true. That's true. It's we'll be like, yep. That's the Rebecca we knew and loved. Didn't hide anything. Again, whatever they hear in a voicemail from me, I've already said to them. So it's fun. I think. I don't care. When I started my photography hobby, I feel like that's all I heard. Are you planning to monetize this somehow? Yeah. Yes. I think it's really radical in a capitalist society to say this matters and is worth my time and investment simply because I fucking enjoy it. Yeah. And I don't need any further justification. Oh my God. Just describe the premise of rent. This is the whole premise of rent. You guys, you just described rent and we come back to Rebecca's passion of I also musicals. I've also never seen rent, so if you could like, not spoil it for me Yeah. Would be great. Okay. The dog dies at the end. So this is one of the useless hobbies I have is curating playlists again for me only, but I do listen to music constantly. And so it is, I have spent hours, you guys hours to the point where I think there was one day where I was supposed to be putting my kids to bed and I, it was like, oh, it's 10.'cause I was sitting there which song goes into the next one? Do you listen to the end? And then the beginning of Yes, I do that. Yes, you have to do I do that. Exactly. And it's so fun. You gotta to arrange it. Maybe that's how arrange arranging things is fun. It's just neurodiversity. Yeah. It's it's just like organizing, right? Yeah. So it's yeah. And then at the end you have something that sounds really beautiful and there's a, I like having different moods in my playlist. So it's like the beginning is like hype and we're getting. and then you go into some chill folk music and then there's some funk in there or whatever. I don't know. I like it. So some death metal. And that was something that I sat there judging myself for. Like, why am I spending hours if come to daddy? But I'm like, if I would do this for a boyfriend, Or yeah. You know what I mean? My spouse, why not do it for myself? Yeah. You know? Well that's basically the, that's basically the this year version of what we would do with CDs back in high school where we would just make playlists and then burn CDs for each other of all the perfect songs that you've picked. Yeah. But doing that for myself. Nice. See, I don't do that for myself when I make playlists for other people. I do the whole like making it flow perfectly for myself. I'm just like, I love all these and I'm throwing them on there. And I don't organize'em for myself. Yeah. Do you like listening to listening on shuffle though? Because sometimes it can, I'm not usually a shuffle person. I like the surprise. No, I like a surprise. I don't like knowing what's coming next. You like a surprise? I like a surprise song. I'd like a surprise song. Okay. Because I don't like knowing the playlist. You like a surprise song. Okay. Yeah. I like a surprise song. Yeah. Try doing it sometimes. I don't know. Make yourself like a curate it for myself. It's just so much work done. It is like when I'm doing it for someone else. And you're worth the work too. I know, but when I'm doing it for someone else, it's I love you. Yeah. and then I'm doing it for me. It's I know I love me. Like I'm awesome. I don't that I don't need to woo myself. Do you guys listen to albums? I feel like nobody listens to albums with me anymore. I would like a full album. You would? What is that? I would just, so the answer's no, she doesn't. Okay. actually, Ash's nice. Actually, Ash, I believe yesterday I was like, Hey Jamie, can we listen? Can I put on records? And did we listen to the whole album? And I was ready to get out a stack of 10 records. I Okay. And put them all in. But that's start to finish. thank you for bringing up my drama. I love it. But that's okay. but you were like, that will stress me out because my record player is buried and I'm like, my record player is literally on the storage room shelf. So you're doing better than me now. I gotta clean out that little corner. You don't So we can play records. No, I'm going to now.'cause here's what I did. I was like, what record did I wanna play? And then I was like, Alexa, play this record. Don't fucking talk to her right now. Sorry if I talk sorry for everyone whose device I just turned on. So Ash listens to albums all the way through. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I definitely do. Sometimes I'm an album girl. What's the last album that you really liked? Like a new album? Or just an old one that you got really into, doesn't matter everything. metric Live Out Loud. That's a good, that's a good album. One of my favorites. Nice. Does it live out loud? What about you? Me? What about you Elyssa? Yeah. Jack. I have, oh, I shared an album with you called Songs For Every Mood by Jax Anderson. It's something like that. That one's really good. Start to finish great album. and then, but late I, I had been on SA Taylor Swift binge Bender for two straight years. There is something about the way she puts word to the experience that I'm like, my soul is speaking to me right now. I understand myself more deeply. So the tortured poets department is, has been on repeat for a long time, which I feel like hopefully none of you are swifties because I feel like I'm telling on myself a lot with that. But whatever, it's a depressing album is what I'm saying. Okay. It's Rebecca and I are like, we don't listen to, we don't know. We dunno. It's a very depressing album. Oh. So that's fine. But yeah, speaking of pressing albums are good doing things because they're important to you. I feel like the podcast you mentioned, the podcast has been that for you. Yeah. Like your creative outlet. Your passion project. Yeah. For both of us. It's just been like, I think it's also opened up a world for us to be more creative in like different ways too, in other parts of our lives. But, we really. We really prioritize. Am I not supposed to look at you in person? No, you can look at me. Is you? I just felt you looking at me and it felt weird. So I was like, what does she do? Is she do not perceive me? I was like, okay, I'll look at you in the screen. Sorry. you can look at me however you want. except not like that. Just kidding. But yeah, we've really prioritized the podcast and prioritized, we prioritized meeting about the podcast and making sure that we go through with it and, yeah, that's it. I guess we just prioritize. Yeah. And like, how often do we have ideas and then we don't do shit about them. All that sucks. And like, how many work projects have I been forced to see through and project plan and commit to, and then never apply that to anything personal? Yeah, no. and that's something that I was thinking about recently is how much time and effort I have put into being a productive good employee. And I'm like, did have I applied? Do I do that with myself in my personal life? Yeah. am I sitting there thinking am I on track with this project? What needs to be reprioritized? And I don't wanna run my life like that. That's for work, but. Maybe a certain version of that would be like, I don't know. It's like trying to, I don't know what I'm saying. Hopefully you do. I'm not there. But I guess like the ways that I've been willing to stretch and grow To be a good employee and then looking at my personal life and being like, why am I not stretching and growing to be a better me? Yeah. Like for me, or to be able to follow through on the commitments that I make of I don't know, live streaming on my book club every week. Yeah. Which I'm not, which I'm taking a break from currently. And that's okay. But that's something I wanna get back. That's prioritizing yourself too. That's true. Taking a break from things when you need to and knowing like when to take a break and like when saying no to when to step back to shit you don't wanna do. Saying No, that's such a big one, dude. Yeah. People. That's actually how we, I made, oh, go ahead. No, I understand. I've made specific appointments or meetings non-negotiables for myself. Like therapy, non-negotiable. Mm-hmm. I'm going, I'm showing up and I'm not getting rid of that time. And like, because to your point, it's like you bend and stretch all the ways at work and then it, you're totally empty. And I hate going back to the filling up your cup thing, but the only thing that's gonna fill up my cup is focusing on myself. And so that is my non-negotiables. I go to therapy, I go to the gym like. I am taking care of me, and that is it. And I will make you money later. But right now, like my life growth has to match. Yeah. Because otherwise, again, burnout, that's Yeah. Exactly. What happens. And that's, and that's why places that have done the four day work week and companies that actually take care of their employees, get more out of their employees because they allow for that. So that you're not, I can't say to prevent burnout completely, because I, it doesn't No. But to make it less likely to happen. I think it's also like what you're talking about too, is I think a lot of companies put all of the responsibility to manage your health and your wellness and not burn out on the individual. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Without really checking in with and it should all be on the leadership team. What do you mean? But Elyssa, they have a crisis number you can call when you're feeling like you're going to kill yourself. What do you mean? They, you get a free subscription to Headspace. Isn't that enough? Yeah. Yeah. Ugh. Yeah. And I, they give you a stipend to go to a gym. yes. Or, and there's been times where the actual problem was our workload is too high. And I feel like what I was told was, maybe you just need to take care of yourself better so you can keep up. And I'm like, I don't think so. I think this is unreasonable. And I think that's really hard is like having good enough boundaries and a clear enough oh no, I see what's happening. And not accepting that. And I think that's something I think you build over time as an employee, but I didn't know how to do that in my early twenties. I love Summer Fridays that are offered, but they tell you that you need to work even harder during the week to make sure you do all your week your work. I hate that. It's like taking vacation to take a vacation. You have to do so much work. Yeah. I'm like, just give me seven extra days a year then just don't, let's not pretend I don't wanna work myself harder just to take up four hours. Just give me seven extra days and let's call it. Or I'll just work a normal day on Friday and just be relieved that no one's chatting me after lunch. Great. you were talking about earlier too, just just sparked a memory that I completely forgot, but I had a manager once. my allergies can get pretty bad and they're like under control now, but like they weren't at one point. So I would get really bad allergies that would turn into migraines and I wouldn't call out, not go into work. I would just be like, I need to work from home because like I'm a mess. And after doing that, I think just twice, two times, and this was like two times in the span of two months or something like that. my manager was like, I think you need to buy more expensive allergy medicine. I would highly suggest that, like if you care about your job. And I was like, okay. I if you care about your job, right? I, and like how inappropriate to be giving you personal medical advice that is so inappropriate. Oh, this so unprofessional. This child was awful. I hate that. Yeah, she was terrible. Ugh. also very toxic. Ash says, we're all on the edge of burnout or past it, and these companies take zero responsibility for it. Doctors moonlight as editors pledge. They gave you medical advice. Yeah. It was like, yeah. I think it was too, this is what I take and it helps. And I am here at work, and I'm clearly she was a bitch. Anyway, moving on. What works for me? What works a bitch though with everybody?'cause I am the prototype of humans. Mm-hmm. Crazy. You are. It's true. You are. It's true. Yeah. Everyone just do what I do and if it doesn't work, it's because you're wrong. Okay. Why are we ever worried about, about people catching clips of our podcast and taking everything so out of context? yeah. And also like your being like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna develop a superiority complex. I already have one. Maybe show everybody your shirt. Oh yeah, my shirt. Mine says defund the media. By the way, if you look like this, DM me. If you look like this, DM me. Love it. If you wanna buy me books Yeah. A Comfortable World. Again, we'll put Elyssa's, Amazon book wishlist in the, show notes. Like I said, it's not a superiority complex, if you're right. and I think that Yes. Okay. I think that, yes, yes. I don't think, I think that we are so taught to be like, I'm worthless. I'm nothing about, you know, like. I think that's part of decent of learning to center yourself is learning to value yourself and learning and to hate when people compliment you. Yeah. To be like, oh no, I like, which is actually a dick thing to do. Hey, here's something nice. No. yeah. How dare you. You take that compliment. It's stupid. Exactly. Rebecca's like, I'm gonna cut that out. No comment. Are you good at taking compliments, Rebecca? No. Okay. that's okay. Who is, I feel like I'm pretty good at it. I'm gonna be honest. I just did it myself right now. Stupid bitch. I don't know. I feel like you're so cute. I feel again, but I guess I have, I like all classically had that view of like, if someone's being nice to me, I'm, that's a nice gesture and it's rude to like, reject it. I take'em right up the butt. Marina takes her compliments right up there, right. The butt. I can't confirm I've given Rebecca, I've given Marina several compliments. Yeah. Right. In the keer. But learning to value yourself is that having that again, having that experience of I have a front row seat to what I've been doing the whole time. Mm-hmm. And how hard I was trying, and I'm not going to lie to myself or dis like I'm not going to gaslight myself that I wasn't trying hard when I know I was that my, that I hadn't. Mm-hmm. Uh, negative intent when I know my heart was in the right space. Mm-hmm. And I can, I'm willing to look at where that wa fell short or wasn't, didn't fit the situation or how I could do better next time. But none of that discounts that. I was trying really hard and giving yourself appropriate credit, I think is part of centering yourself and valuing yourself and setting boundaries, which I know we've said a lot so far. It's Rebecca's favorite, but, and setting boundaries. I think that's prioritizing yourself. Like I was talking about how, sometimes I just have to not respond to texts right away, not call people back right away. And it can be for many reasons, but sometimes, that's better for me, that's better for my mental health, that's better for my life. And it's okay to do that. And it's okay to say no, I don't wanna go out to dinner with you tonight. I'm actually really, I've actually been really depressed this week. no, you can't come over, you know, boundaries and saying No, I, yeah. What I'm about to say, I give the caveat with I am going to sound like a giant asshole. Okay. Thinking about this as we talk about this, one of the things I realized I've been doing, fuck you, Jamie, is I've stopped pretending I'm stupid. Well, not pretending, but just not being as smart as I know I am out loud, because it's not my problem. If I make you feel bad that you're stupid, I'm smarter. I'm not responsible for your response to me being smart. And I've just kind of stopped and I'm, I say what I think out loud if I think I have an idea or if I know that you're wrong. And I'm like, we did decide this instead of like, no, it's just you're an asshole and I love you. Yeah. And it kind of like, it's just been freeing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. and it's been freeing I'm, and being more direct and not needing to like, babysit everyone's feelings, being blunt. You can just say how it is, but I don't know. And again, like I, I feel like I'm doing a bad job of explaining this, but at work, like when you ask about compliments, like I have bad self-esteem about other stuff, but I've never had bad self-esteem about how smart I am. But I at work, it was like, I always knew, like, I was like I was smart and on it, but like I would make people feel bad about me doing my job, but that never changed. But I just kind of always, I feel like tap danced around it or went outta my way to just. Not make people feel dumb, but one of the things I think we worked on in therapy is like, not being, not feeling responsible for other people's reactions to you. Which Yeah. A whole other thing. Yes. And that's kind of given me permission to just be like, oh, here's everything. And if you can either feel bad about it or just be like, let's work with her.'cause she's smart. I don't know it. And again, I realize that makes me sound like an asshole. I'm gonna be totally honest. I'm half a gummy inn, so I don't care. that's just what I think. Beautiful. Take that other half, girl. You got it. Yeah. Like speaking up and bringing the good idea out. Even if it mm-hmm. Even if it will leave someone feeling like, did I look stupid?'cause I didn't think of that. I don't say it like, oh, right, I know you don't actually dumbass. that's what I'm saying is that's their own insecurity, but she wants to popping out if I want to. Mm-hmm. And I do after I hang up. Too many people are ignorant and expect to be tiptoed around. Yeah. That's it. I'm sick of tiptoeing around people. Mm-hmm. Listen, don't do it. Hulk smash. I think it's okay to just know what you, so I, okay. Yeah. I think it's okay to know what you know a lot about and what you're an expert on. And then to also,'cause I also know that you two have also have the trait where I've seen you do this when you don't know, you'll just be like, yeah, I'm not really sure. Or Yeah, I'm not an expert on that. And you own that. And like that. That goes a like, but Rebecca's like, but I do know everything, you know, a lot. No, I literally Google it as I'm talking, like, I don't know, but let's fucking find out now. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that there's something really healthy about just knowing, no, I do know what I'm talking about. And having that confidence to, to just hold that space without letting, and if people challenge it or push back mm-hmm. You're like, okay, I'm not moving. Right. I think Yes. Yeah. Yep. And again, I think it's just, it's getting to be like about to hit 40 and just realizing all the time you've spent bending to the world make Yeah. Making yourself smaller all the time. You've spent I don't, not doing that anymore. Yeah. I just, fuck it. I don't, I don't need more friends. I don't care if you like me. I make money with my job. I go home, I have a garden. I like debate. Don't do this. But like, I don't have a job right now, Rebecca. That was very insensible. I don't just so I just, I don't I don't need anyone else. I'm just gonna validate my fucking self mm-hmm. And go do the things I like and I just, I genuinely don't give a shit anymore. Yeah. Which is really nice. It is really nice. Yeah. Talking about working hard, I feel like we can work hard, but there will always be someone who's always trying to shoot you down, but they, they're mostly jealous of your self con confidence, but something they don't realize is that you finally boosted up your self-confidence and they're just wearing you down, so you have to build yourself up again. And sometimes we give up and we're just like super depressed all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I think that is what happens when, like something that you just said is you're like, I don't care about having a lot of friends. And That's true. I think that you realized that who you have in your life mm-hmm. Is as important as who you don't get Yes. Your access to you and not being correct. I'm not closed off to like new friends or other friends. Right. But it's the same with like relationships and like dating. It's I know we talked about this in the friendship episode. I think like I've learned all of these years, 40 years, I'm about to turn 40. what doesn't work, what I don't like, what makes me feel like shit, what lifts me up? Mm-hmm. What makes me feel supported. Yeah. And so I'm very careful about curating my friends. Yeah. My partners, my lovers. Yeah. Pat says, I feel that, but I'm also over being bitter about how shit and unfair everything is anymore. I don't know. So jaded. I'm still bitter about it. I think. Yes. there's two parts. This is just like stuff solely like in the meat. This isn't me all the time. This is just, I think we're talking about recentering that small, those small bits of time that we get only for ourselves. Yeah. And then, and it's like the true pure form of that. And then, and we spend time being angry and furious about everything. But I think this is like the sanity scraps that we hold onto. Yeah. I think because this isn't an all the time thing. Oh, sorry. I was gonna say this isn't an all the time thing. you don't go on trips to see Jamie all the time. Like we don't take centering shit all the time. This is just but we should the moments that you have. But I'm just saying I don't wanna be like, I do this and this now these are just like small blips and time or small pieces in our world of everything else that like keep us moving forward with all the other bullshit. I love that you said taking time to be angry or bitter the rest of the time.'cause I actually think that is a form of being center of centering yourself too.'cause again, what's the alternative? Sitting here and performing, convincing ourselves. We're not angry about what we just perpetuate something we have every right to be angry about. I think giving ourselves time to be mad is actually like really healthy and an appropriate, healthy response to the world, the fucked up world we're living in right now. And so I think it's like finding this space where you can give space for that when it's present without getting lost in it. I don't know how to do that sometimes. Yeah. I'm still finding that balance and the world's only getting more fucked up, so it's I don't know, I'm having to re-find it all the time because Things change around you too. But I think also having kids around, Jamie, you have your niece and nephew say you have your kids, like having kids around. I think you also start prioritizing things because you see all this beautiful stuff in your kid and you want that preserved as much as possible. So if you're not being an example of how to live that life and like how to, how to hold onto that, then they're not gonna see that and they're gonna lose those beautiful little parts of them. Yeah. so I feel like we're almost, it's even more important because we know who's watching us and we We want that for them. We want better for them. Yeah. We wanna be like good role models and we Exactly. It's important. even for yep. M and for JJ and Ruthie, I want to be like, Or even for my friends. I feel like you guys consistently show up and model like friendship prior, self care. Like really we're trying to show you how to do the friendship thing. Elyssa Healthy. I know, I'm, and I'm, I've grown so much. I know you're doing great under your tutelage, under your mentorship, tutelage. But I love what you said, Rebecca, too, because like it not only benefits our kids, it also benefits like the other people in our lives. I think, yeah. I'm having this experience where I'm realizing I can't really look to my parents' generation or the boomer's generation because in a lot of, no. Do you remember when you saw your mom do doing any of this? Do you see, do you remember any of your mom, being, taking time herself? Because I couldn't remember any. She's still not doing it. She's still not doing it. Yeah. And I hope she figures it out. I would love that for her. but yeah, I think that I spent, I did spend some time being angry and bitter.'cause I'm like, no one taught me this. I'm having to put this together from scraps in my mid thirties and I should have seen, I should have had examples. But I do have examples like I, and this is again, I think where it goes to like creating a support system, removing people who are like shitty and you're like, I don't wanna reinforce this way of being and. So maybe you need to be a little further out of my circle, but then pulling in the people in our circle, thinking about who makes me feel good about myself? Who is like an example who is like modeling self love and self care. or whatever you wanna work on. Maybe it's like being good at routines or schedule or being consistent. Especially like I, if I have a d, adhd, I do have a h, adhd, probably not diagnosed, but it's I've really loved seeing the ways that you have been really consistent with the podcast. And seeing that example of you can be consistent with a DHD, it's just gonna look different. You're gonna, maybe you stay up till four in the morning once in a while working on something. Maybe you go on what I said. Go on. Oh, okay. Or maybe you, focus on things that are interesting and you're, they're, you're consistent about it because you're choosing to invest in things that you naturally would wanna do and are fun. But anyway, I just wanted to hype you up and be like, thank you for being, thank you for all the modeling that you do for me. I feel thank you for being afraid. I know how to be human from watching you guys. I'm always benefiting from that. Yeah. We're your elders. So Yes. You are the people I look up to. It has been interesting, like with my grandpa dying, my mom has taken on more of a caregiver role to my grandmother. And it's watching, it's watching her start to make time for herself and do things for herself. And it's really good to see. It's so it's not, it's not too late. And so I know we're being role models for each other, but I also think we may be being role models for the, like our parents. we can only hope. Yeah, I hope so. But I don't mean that in a conti conceited way. I just mean I don't think their parents told them to prioritize themselves or anything about them. So like I'm saying that with, Yeah. I don't think it's anything they just knew how to do. And somebody's showing them how to do that, and I think they're doing that. I know my dad plays in an orchestra. My mom has her friends that she goes out to lunch with. And so it's it's nice to see, because I remember when I was younger, I'd be like, mom, do you have any friends? She's I don't need friends. I have your father. And I was like, Ugh, that's just one person. Ugh, it's not a support system. Also. Have you seen that? And I was like, also, it's a boy. but like now it's just, it's nice to see them take care of themselves.'cause I think also have, watching their parents die, they've realized that you're gonna die anyway, I think even more closely and intimately than we have. And I don't know. Yeah. Again, all that just sounded super superior. And I didn't mean it to, I just no, it didn't. No, I'm glad our parents are doing that. I'm glad they're Yeah, because they de they deserve to be happy too. Yeah. Marina's mom finally divorced her shitty husband with a year of marina moving closer to her. Holy shit. With a year. Marina's like taking credit. She's I love that for, I love that for both of you. No, I love that for your mom so much. I love that for both of you. Good for her. For Marina's mom. Yes. Yeah. I had a thought and it was, oh, okay. We've talked about when people have judgements and they kind of project onto you. And something I've been thinking about is that sometimes, so a little thought exercise I've been doing is if I'm being true to my values, like for example, like something that I really, I have actively worked on, and again, this has been a process when I'm like, it's great to prioritize watercolor. It's because I sat there fucking coaching myself through, can I do this? Is this worth my time? Is it, it's because I sat there and said, yeah, why wouldn't it be? And I sat with the contradictions and the thoughts and I got somewhere and I got to what was really important to me. But it's been interesting to notice a lot of people will share things about their relationship to art with you, or if you're doing something, maybe like with the podcast, people say things to you like, oh, I always thought about starting a podcast. And they share these things with you. And I think there's something really beautiful that happens when you start putting yourself out there and being more authentic is, some people don't like it, but even in the people who I'm like, maybe this is confronting to see me make time for art in my life, and maybe that's good for you. Maybe it's good for you to be confronted by the fact that people can prioritize things that you think are stupid. Because what is that about for you? I don't know. Are, is it that you're judgmental? Is it that you wish you would give yourself permission to do things you enjoy and you don't? And so you feel like no one else should either? again, people are just projecting and that's what, like realizing that, again, having that boundary to hand them back their shit, but also recognizing I'm hand, I'm just reflecting back to you something that's in you, and I don't know what it is, but that's good. Like it's good for me to be modeling this way of being in the world because I feel like it's very, it's healthier. It's helping me, like I feel good and I would love to have more models of people feeling good in their lives and creating a life that's worth living for them. Yeah. I would love to see all the different ways that looks, again, what you just said. For me it's the complete opposite. It's like when people do project. Because I already don't know how to people or I don't know the rules of people, then I assume then they must be right. And I think that's where a lot of the self-esteem issues come in. I can't give'em back.'cause I was like, clear. clearly the real people are telling me that this is how we people. And so Okay. it's on me. And so that's something I think just ask me. I still really struggle with. Yeah. I'll tell you. and I think that's where it's helpful to note,'cause even how you're talking about it, I see you having self-awareness. Recognizing something you're not great at. And then maybe, like Jamie said, just ask me, you have a skill or like something to fill in with that where if you don't feel like you can trust your judgment, you can go to Jamie and say, is this a valid piece of feedback? Is this accurate? Or is this person being an asshole? I say, fuck no, fuck them. I go to check GBT and GTP as in more honest and therapeutic. I thought she was gonna say than Jamie. Yes. it is because you're my best friend. And so there's still something there that like, you don't wanna hurt me all the way. You know what I mean? So chat GPT isn't gonna hold the fuck out. I'm pretty fucking honest with you all the time. here's what it is. I can just, I, you know what I mean though? Like, I can, I can order chat GPT to be honest and I'm biased and it will be, and I just know it will be. Yeah. It's objective. I don't take orders that at the end of the day. Yeah. At the end of the day, we can't be objective. Really and truly a hundred percent chat GBT is. And so that ironically is where I have turned to. Did I people Right. How do I, people better? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I, and I think it's like what you said is I believe you, that you're honest, right? And I think there's also that question of like, is this person telling me the truth? would they protect my feelings? And I think those are all fair and but you also don't have that with a lot of people usually. Yeah, that's true. Meaning people that will be honest with yous. Yeah. Yeah. And be like, yeah, I think you went, I think you were in the wrong here. Yeah. I was telling you this earlier, I have loved that in my life and valued it. And there's been times when you called me out, like as a joke, you were like, oh, Elyssa, that was a lot. That was a half joke. That was a lot, right? And, but it got me to reflect on it and be like, oh,'cause I think there was one, one time where you were with me and someone else, and I spoke to them in a way where you were like, that was a bit much. That was like, whoa, Elyssa, that was a little rude. ha. And we laughed and I never thought about it again. Yeah. I don't remember it later, And later on I checked in with that person and I was like, Hey, Jamie. I like Jamie pointed out in the moment, that was a little harsh. Did that come off that way? And they were like, yeah, actually. And we had a conversation. And that I really love and value that, like having people who I trust to tell me the truth. Yeah. Especially because we can't always trust ourselves and we're still learning to do that. And. it is hard to do. Yeah. Like sometimes it's the hardest, I think, to hear the truth. but it's also hard to tell people the truth sometimes, especially when it's somebody you care so much about. which is crazy'cause it's like you care so much about them. So yeah. Just be honest. But it's also but I don't wanna hurt them, Yeah. or sometimes if I'm asking for the truth, am I really prepared to hear it and manage my reaction to it? Instead of making them, like shooting the messenger or like asking for advice, asking a friend for advice and like And then being mad, not true. Not truly being like open to it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want you to agree with me secretly, I don't really want you to agree with me that I'm doing it. Okay. Yeah. No, I get it. Sometimes I feel like if I am gonna ask for honesty, I'll leave space to be like, I want your honest answer, but then I need to go think about it before I'm ready to talk about it, because it might hurt my feelings at first, but that's okay. So you need to take it and sit with it for a little bit. Yes. And then, yeah, like I might not ready. I think that's, I might not be ready to, that's a boundary. That's a boundary. That's a great boundary. Yeah. And I think that is part of centering yourself healthy too, is recognizing your own needs and owning them and being in charge of them, and then handing other people's needs back to them. Of, if you need me to. Like being honest. I don't know that I can give you like a reaction that makes you feel comfortable about telling me the truth. So I'm gonna be honest about that up front and let you know I might look upset and that's okay. Like I, it's still like the medicine that you'll give me by being honest is still, I still wanna take it even if I got stink face while I'm doing it, which is what happens. Show us your best stink face. That was many stink face eye. There's there's so many negative traits to react. I have to have a range, right? Oh, you're pointing out, my insecurity. oh. You're pointing out my forgetfulness and the ways I can be inconsiderate. Ah, like you just, you need it, you need the range. And I'm gonna meet you with, again the opposite. I have begged people to tell me the truth because I don't know until you tell me. And then when they tap dance around it and I think, oh, it's the truth. Yeah. But I have missed all of the like subtleties. And also you told me this was the truth. Yep. So and some people will just lie. I need it. Some people aren't comfortable telling the truth. Yeah. So I think that's where it's good to know your people. I need it. Yeah. who? And you messaged me one time about, it was like you were trying something on and you wanted to know if you, it would look good and you said, I'm asking you'cause I know you'll be honest. And I think you also trusted me to be kind If it wa if it didn't look good. And I would have, and I also was like, because you're asking for honesty, I will be honest. And I was like, it looks great. Yeah. And it did, but if it didn't, I would've been like, I don't know if that would be my pitch. do you feel like you guys have done a lot of work understanding like your values and how to and what's important to you? Yeah. Don't be a fucking asshole. Yeah. I like that. That's a good place to, again, it's, yeah. It's good to leave it sealed. Here's the, here's the core value of this podcast. Don't be an asshole., I mean, when I say don't be an asshole, some of that is very specific things like, to me that I think if you're walking towards someone on the sidewalk, two people toward two people, yeah. And one couple SCOs over to the right a little bit and the other couple Is oh, they scooted over to the right so we're just gonna keep on plowing through the same straight path and they don't also get over. Those people are assholes. So it sounds like for you, being aware of others and being considerate Yeah. considering them is a value for you. When I open the door for you and you walk through not saying Thank you, rude first, we'll elicit a you're welcome from me and second is very fucking rude. It's intention is always my focus's a good value. Like living your life on purpose. That is good. I think that's a lot of what we're talking about. Yeah. He does that. He's great. I love that. Do it girl. I actually did have, I've done a values exercise and I think this is a really good way to start thinking about how to recenter yourself is actually sitting down and like defining your values. And if you have a therapist, this is something you can do with a therapist too. This is something I did with my therapist, I think actually, is like actually defining what is important to me. And I think it ended up being like purpose, creativity, and something else that I don't remember, which is funny because family top three value, can't remember it. Candy, family, family, family. I heard candy, but also candy. Candy. By the way, I've complimented on your, you on your candy. Tastes like no less than four times. Because I'm just like, I only remember the once that's, I, maybe I've just been thinking it every time. I'm like, Ooh, sad. She's like taking my candy. And she's candy. I feel like I keep candy. I keep first it was the high choose, but I don't know. Ooh. I love it. I, candy is my number one value. I love candy. I love candy too. It's so good to end on the value of don't be an asshole core value of this podcast, but also take care of yourself. Oh, that's what I was gonna say. Yeah. You were talking about like your value, like individual. And I was thinking like, that's what I've talked to my father about this a lot. That's what I think about, with like companies, right? Yes. You wanna see that. Like their values, a lot of what their values are. I guess with companies it's hard because they can have certain values on paper and not really live up to them. But that's one thing. And I, that's, that was, I think one of the things that took us so long to start the podcast is we really wanted to get down like the language on our site and like in any messaging, to really reflect that. to really, and that's actually what us doing. That was what triggered I think me deciding to update my stuff, like my personal site. but we spent a lot of time just writing like a couple paragraphs, because we just wanted to Yeah. Make sure that like our values were there and Yeah. And that you understood, but be honest and make sure the mission Yeah. And that you were lying state what you wanted this to do in the world. Ugh. That's beautiful. And I think it speaks to also like when you're looking for a job or when you're with an employer The importance of finding something that's a good enough fit for your values, because it can, yeah. Part of burnout can be that tension between misalignment, your personal values, and the place that you work. Sometimes that's being asked to disregard yourself, but sometimes it's doing work that you know, is not making the world better or is having very little impact, or just the moral injury. Yeah. And that just sucks. That just sucks. Ah, and it's hard, I don't know, to balance like, how evil is this company I'm working for? I feel like if you're asking yourself that, maybe. But to be clear, maybe that's your sign as someone who little too long sometimes you, you also just need a job. Sometimes that's, and there's nothing wrong with that. I was gonna say, sometimes evil pays the paycheck. Yeah. And then you have to be like, what level of evil is acceptable? And then now you have compromised your own morality. If any evil companies are hiring right now, I'm available. I'm available. Yeah. The whoop says that balance of company and personal values is the exact reason I moved halfway across the country a few years ago. Wow. I hope you moved to F because you found a company that matched your personal values. Yeah. Congrats. That's great. Dismantle the evil from Yeah. Also, what company is from the inside. Marina says, yes. Drop that company name in the comics. Yeah. It's a good company. Are they hiring inside? I love that. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. I, yeah, I ha I would say my current company is actually a really good values fit for me. They really care about DEI. They really care about prioritizing the customer and keeping costs low for the customer. Part of that, that is, that, that is actually their competitive edge, right? But I knew that going in. Yeah. And I really appreciated that. Yeah. And so I do think it's possible. It can take time, it can take effort, and obviously it wasn't totally up to me whether I got that job, but it sounds like whoop just moved the Midwest to the west coast. That's what I'm hearing. Okay. So you moved to Oregon, Washington coast to West coast. I'm going with Washington. I'm gonna go with ca. Did I read that right? Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Washington. I'm a transplant too. I'm from the Midwest. Oh. Or oh, Oregon. Nice. Yeah. You're all like, yeah, I'm from Michigan and I live in California now. Yeah. For a decade. I think that's a good point too. some places do have really weird work culture. Like I lived in North Carolina for a year and I remember feeling like you guys take this a little too serious. I. Oh, like this is a little, they say east Coast is, it's just so hustle culture, right? So it's just, yeah. That was the job where I told you like, I got really bad heartburn one day and I left, it wasn't super early. It was like two hours early. Yeah. I didn't have Toms, there weren't any in the office, and I was like, listen, I cannot concentrate. I gotta go. I got heartburn. And my manager was like, really heartburn. Okay. and again, back to the it's have you never had bad heart heartburn? Bitch, come on. Apparently she hadn't. You're not gonna You're not gonna sit and suffer at your desk for another four hours. And are you, is it really your place professionally to tell me how to manage my health right now? No. but yeah, so I think that finding places that match your values is helpful. Yeah. Or if you're somewhere that doesn't match your values, whether that's a company or like a location, a state, a city, prioritizing, finding like-minded people within that place can be good. Like we, we worked at semi toxic to toxic workplaces when we met and we found each other because we were like, oh, you're like me. You're sick of this bullshit. Yeah. Also, yeah. We're like, okay. Undercover. Yeah. So don't be an asshole and find other people who are not assholes. Find other people that you can just be silly assholes too. Yes. That's what I do. Or be the silly. Or be the asshole you want to see in this world. Yes. Yes. That's the title of the podcast. Be the Asshole you wanna see in this world. Prioritize yourself Outta Spite. be an Asshole for Good and Justice. I love this. I love this. Oh girl. After my own heart. You stop being obsessed with Rebecca. No. Going. You're supposed to be obsessed with me. Oh no. I love it. And knowing you're smarter than everyone. How dare you. Yes. I love this. Those are the nurturing, nurturing this world. Yes. Nurturing is superiority complex. Actually, maybe I won't make time to see you when I'm in Portland Secret. It's fine, Jamie. It's okay. You can be smart with me. I was talking to Q Oh yeah. Portland. Why do you guys get together? You guys should get together. Yeah. What the fuck? I'm in Vancouver, Washington. Interesting. Yeah. Get together. We, you love her so much. You'll chat. We'll chat later. Maybe I could have a real life friend and I'll have be friends. Vancouver. Yay. I thought Jamie, I'm not telling everyone the exact city where I live, so I'm saying Vancouver, no, I was actually asking, just not you. Oh, nevermind. It's all about you, Rebecca. Sorry. She's fucking gross. actually I'm centering myself and something are about me. we so things. we reached the end of the podcast. Yes. Go away. Everybody did a good job. Go away. Apparently I said that at the end of one of our shows and Rebecca can't get over it. I was like, that's the end. Go away. Go away. Quit perceiving My favorite. part of the slumber party is that you eventually are supposed to slumber and also, that's why we gotta go take an m. Yeah. It keeps you angry for the other shit. Like just Yeah. Be the asshole. Stay angry. There's a lot of destructive energy and rage. Take herself out for manicures once in a while. Yes. Just girly things. Also, I tried to see if she wanted to do that while she was here, but redirect your rage. embrace it and then get a manicure. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just girly things or buy a rag gun, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. All right. I don't know what we thought. Rebecca's dammit. Okay. Yes. I think this is part of the, living a life, like creating life is worth living. You get to a point where you're like, why the fuck not? I literally feel like, not to be dramatic, I wanna die. Right. I, I'm losing the will to live at some point. Doing the scary thing is so much less scary than living. Such a miserable life. You'll get fired or laid off any, no matter if you're a good worker or a bad worker. we have learned this by now, so it's like, well fuck it. Like nothing we do is going to change any of this. Yeah. So like, we might as well just do what you want. I feel like that's genuinely a thing of like, well, I'm gonna give life one last chance, but I'm gonna fully do it my way. I'm gonna finally do it the way I've always wanted to. And did it give myself permission to listen? Would you say what? Dancing? no one's watching and live Laugh Loving. Is that, so I'm actually talking about. When you get so depressed that you don't, that you wanna go to sleep forever. Uh mm-hmm. Things just start looking different. So I don't know if I'm dancing and live life loving or just saying maybe there's better alternatives than just going forever podcast since 2024, ladies in general. But that's what burnout feels like. Oh yeah. I know. Yeah. You just get so Elyssa, I'm messing with you. Oh, okay. I love her. That was when I actually needed it. I love her. She's so easy. I was like, I'm gonna actually argue with you about this. And you're like, I am joking. Please don't. Actually, I think last night when we were all talking, I was just like, everything I say is a joke. I was like, never take me. Just look at her serious. Yeah. You just look at her and then keep talking. And then that's my favorite because I know that's like, that's Rebecca. Just, I don't know. I the knowing that you're like judging me and you're just like, it feels good. It feels good. Oh my God. Why is this getting so depressing? I feel like we should have ended 15 minutes ago when it was like, we long goodbye. This is what happens when you long goodbye. This, this wasn't a long goodbye. We didn't even decide to goodbye. We did this, then we did this. This was the beginning of goodbye. No, I just, and we kept fucking talking. And we talked about having feelings and then we just kept going, okay, there's no wrong. So I was getting ready for goodbye. There's no feelings here. Ladies and gentlemen. You know what? There's no wrong way to goodbye. And also maybe the goodbye was too long. All right. So both of those things can be true. Thank you guys. thank you Elyssa. Yeah. Thank you for having, for being in my apartment. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for having me. This was fun. I feel like I was in slumber party. Shut it down. Yeah, this was great. Can we go paint our nails now? Face mask maybe? Yeah. Yeah. if that's what you want, whatever you want. Love you. Okay. Love everyone. All right. Bye guys. Thank you. See you next week. Thank you too much guys.