REBECCA: 0:00

Remember that whole autism thing? I did not know. I thought you were serious. I

JAMIE: 0:05

know. I'm sorry.

REBECCA: 0:06

You could get me to do a lot of stuff. I

JAMIE: 0:07

know. I know. Now the wheels in my head are turning. No, but I would never. I'm Jamie. And I'm Rebecca. Welcome to the Burnout Collective.

REBECCA: 0:22

I Hello, everybody. Welcome back. Welcome to episode nine. We

JAMIE: 0:27

did it. I can't believe we've done it for this long. I'm like, I know I'm, I'm legitimately shocked because we don't, we stick with things.

REBECCA: 0:41

I know. I was expecting to spend 300 on a microphone and a headphones and then just put them in a closet and three episodes and we're at nine.

JAMIE: 0:51

I know. That's great.

REBECCA: 0:53

That's great.

JAMIE: 0:55

Today

REBECCA: 0:56

into our topic. Right.

JAMIE: 0:57

Mm hmm. It's wellness. Our topic is,

REBECCA: 1:04

well,

JAMIE: 1:06

coping, coping mechanisms,

REBECCA: 1:09

coping mechanism.

JAMIE: 1:09

Yeah. Meds are wellness for sure. Yeah, we can talk about it. We can talk about it.

REBECCA: 1:17

meds are wellness in that we keep everyone alive around us when we medicate. No, it's not necessarily wellness for us. It's wellness for you. for everyone who we interact with on a daily basis.

JAMIE: 1:28

Yeah, I medicate specifically for Rob Lasser. Like, I specifically medicate for him, so I don't murder him. So, that's why I medicate. Rebecca, why do you, why do you medicate? It's like one of those commercials, like, I medicate for, for my kids.

REBECCA: 1:46

Okay, so this is a complete tangent, but I have to tell you, there is a diabetes commercial now, where they're all singing about, like, this diabetes medication, and it's super happy. But like one of the, you know, like they do that really fast talking about the side effects. One of them is like the infection.

JAMIE: 2:03

Oh,

REBECCA: 2:03

no, an infection in your taint. Oh, like what? And it's horrific. And every time it comes on, I'm just doing nothing and not paying attention. And then that part comes on and I did a

JAMIE: 2:14

taint infection, if you will.

REBECCA: 2:17

Yeah, and it's like, Oh my god, they said it out loud on TV. And it's just What a hor—, like, who's gonna see that and be like, yes, that medication for Wait, they

JAMIE: 2:25

said taint infection?

REBECCA: 2:28

No, they said like the, the, what's the word? The perineum. So a rare but serious infection of the perineum and genital area can occur in people taking sodio glucose cotransporter 2 inhibitors, a class of diabetes medication. And they said all those words at once. A rare but serious infection.

JAMIE: 2:47

Oh, God.

REBECCA: 2:48

And I even think they said life threatening.

JAMIE: 2:51

Oh, no.

REBECCA: 2:53

I know. So, sorry to tangent, but I heard I mean,

JAMIE: 2:56

it was worth

REBECCA: 2:57

it.

JAMIE: 2:58

Absolutely worth it.

REBECCA: 3:00

But I medicate because everyone in my family is lacking those chemicals in their brain that allow them to function like normal people. and I have that genetic trait as well.

JAMIE: 3:15

Well. Medication. Don't get it. What is it?

REBECCA: 3:19

If you can't make your own serotonin, store bought is fine? That one? Is that what they say?

JAMIE: 3:24

I don't know. Is that what you say? That's what

REBECCA: 3:27

that is. Why do you medicate?

JAMIE: 3:29

I medicate to function. I medicate honestly to like keeping myself and my cats alive. it is, it's literally self care for me. And it's the same with therapy, meds. Remember when I, I, I've struggled with many things. Most of my life, like starting at a young age, like insomnia, depression, anxiety. I feel like my anxiety when I was younger was not that bad. I think now that I've gotten older, my anxiety has just gotten worse.

REBECCA: 4:07

That's the kicker though. As women get older, those symptoms like ramp up. Yeah. So fucking unfair.

JAMIE: 4:15

Yeah. And I mean, same with ADHD. Yeah. Like, I mean, I definitely can like, look back and see that I did have ADHD. My experiences with people who I knew had ADHD back then, it was mostly boys who were very just hyperactive and would have like verbal, physical, like outbursts and stuff like that. And, that wasn't me. So although I, I suspected that I had ADD back then, it definitely didn't seem as prominent as it is now, for sure.

REBECCA: 4:52

Well, it was in the eighties too, when. ADHD was only being attributed to boys, and it was those very specific, like, verbal, physical tics. But girls, because we're conditioned to mask and be more socially, quote, acceptable, it was much easier for us to kind of internalize it, but it would just come out in other really harmful ways.

JAMIE: 5:14

Yeah. But, yeah, mostly just, distracted and always just Okay, what can I do next? What can I do while I'm doing this thing? And also I just feel like my brain was so, I read so much when I was a kid and I like don't read now and I always attributed it to being an editor and like I read all day long so I don't really want to read for pleasure anymore even, which is so sad! Again, that's another like You know, the man's taken away my creativity and, an outlet for that.

REBECCA: 5:53

but you're making money off a hyper fixation though, which I think is really interesting. Cause I was also the same. I read a lot and now I get paid to do that.

JAMIE: 6:02

That's true. Yeah.

REBECCA: 6:03

and let's not forget our favorite part about being editors. Jamie,

JAMIE: 6:07

we tell people what to do and we tell them they're wrong and we're right. And yeah, that's the best. That's the best part of life, Rebecca. Absolutely.

REBECCA: 6:18

I know. Honestly, it's so good. As we get older, men grow out of A DHD, and women basically our ability to mask and function starts to break down, and we just become, especially when parents feral,

JAMIE: 6:33

we become feral. Feral,

REBECCA: 6:35

yes. Legitimately. Did your mom ever catch that something was maybe different or did you get more in trouble for that when you were younger?

JAMIE: 6:46

I honestly think that. My parents were, were surprised when I was diagnosed with ADHD, which was only, four years ago? but it definitely has gotten worse. But the thing is, because it was, it had been so long of me dealing with these things, even like depression and, insomnia that I had. my brain, on top of masking, like my brain also trained myself to have workarounds to like MacGyver my mental health that I wasn't being treated for properly. so I had some things in place that, that like were to me more like a Band Aid, you know, like you had duct tape and a paperclip and you were like, now depression's not that bad, you know, now you can sleep a little bit.

REBECCA: 7:39

My mother was not surprised as she looked at my Star Trek engineer, a father. And she took, she took me to the doctor when I was super little and was like, something is wrong and the doctor said, and this is a direct quote. And again, because it was the 80s and autism was only studied in boys. He said, what do you want her to like, sit in a corner and rock and drool. She's just one of those pain in the ass kids. So no one was surprised and no one got the help they needed until

JAMIE: 8:12

Yeah. I think that's happening for a lot of millennials. We were diagnosed just a few years ago

REBECCA: 8:17

I think a lot of this conversation came out of those years of us finding our own coping mechanisms before there was therapy and or medication.

JAMIE: 8:26

Truly. That, like, wasn't a thing.

REBECCA: 8:30

I remember before I was like, correctly medicated, it was during the pandemic and treatment. I was sitting on my couch, and you know those emails where, like, we found your email online, and your password, and we've been able to hack your webcam, pay us this much money, right? And I just laughed because I knew that all I've been doing for months now is sitting on my couch eating Doritos And I was like, fucking send it. Do it. I don't care what it is you're gonna do. I feel like

JAMIE: 8:55

I dare you. I dare you.

REBECCA: 8:59

Crying into a bag of Doritos. Oh no. That's how I knew it was really bad.

JAMIE: 9:06

That's one of my favorites. Rebecca's story is certainly.

REBECCA: 9:11

But that was one of my coping mechanisms. That coping mechanism was just eating for the dopamine. So coping mechanisms. So Jamie, why do people do coping mechanisms aside from existing? Like being able to exist? What's the point?

JAMIE: 9:33

To disassociate?

REBECCA: 9:35

To disassociate! My favorite.

JAMIE: 9:39

That's why I play games. That's why I watch Law and Order SVU over and over and over again. It's comforting.

REBECCA: 9:51

Because your brain doesn't have to do anything. It's basically like screensaver mode and your soul leaves your body. You don't have to exist for a while. It's comforting. Great.

JAMIE: 10:01

I need something to just literally get me out of my head and focus on something. Like, that's why we play games like Farming Sins, right?

REBECCA: 10:10

Because I don't want to fucking clean but I sure as shit can dig holes with a pretend hoe on a video game for hours at a time.

JAMIE: 10:20

Rebecca, don't sell yourself short. You a real hoe. You a real one.

REBECCA: 10:25

Thank you. But like, I can't do chores, but I can do pretend chores. I can do real chores, but I will do pretend chores all day long.

JAMIE: 10:32

Animal Crossing, Stardew Valley, Moonstone Island, and recently, Sons of the Forest, which is my favorite thing Rebecca plays with us. I was like, Hey, you should get this and play with me, and I was like certain she would look at it and be like, absolutely not. I think that's the problem. I could really, I could easily take advantage of you. I feel like you just trust me too much, Rebecca.

REBECCA: 10:58

I, I do. Like that one game, there was one game where like, yeah, I think it's just like a video game about taking care of yourself in a game. And I bought it. And the next thing I know, there's like some horrific anime thing behind me going like, why don't you love me? And I'm screaming every five minutes.

JAMIE: 11:16

The game is, the game is called My Side, by the way, M I S I D E and You're like 15, 20 minutes in, and all of a sudden you go, I think there was blood. And all of a sudden you go, Is this a horror game? And I was like, yeah. And you're like, didn't know that. You told me it was about self care. I'm pretty sure I was being pretty sardonic when I was like, self care.

REBECCA: 11:45

Yeah. Remember that whole autism thing? I did not know. I thought you were serious. I

JAMIE: 11:50

know. I'm sorry.

REBECCA: 11:51

You could get me to do a lot of stuff. I

JAMIE: 11:52

know. I know. Now the wheels in my head are turning. No, but I would never.

REBECCA: 11:58

That's the difference though between disassociating and a hobby. Like a hobby you do for fun and an activity to disassociate means you're not even really present there. You're just like an autopilot.

JAMIE: 12:12

And that's what we have to do. it's just like putting yourself in recovery mode, or like, safe mode. That's why, like, for the longest time, after work, I would immediately end work. And jump into gaming like with my friends or by myself, sometimes I couldn't even game with friends and that would be like, I think depression creeping in because with depression, you know, like, you don't, or at least I don't, my depression displays as like, I don't want to be around anybody. That's just what I had to do to basically survive.

REBECCA: 12:49

And it's the survival thing too. It's. I can either kill myself or I can just leave my body for a while.

JAMIE: 12:57

I feel like we probably shouldn't say that

REBECCA: 12:59

sorry.

JAMIE: 13:00

No.

REBECCA: 13:01

Not sorry. Cause really that's where we were for a long time, The downside, I was going to say, of disassociative activities, though, is some of them are completely benign, like playing games, but then some of them are actively harmful to you and are not in your best interest. And Even though they feel good in the moment, like, I'll just say it for me.

JAMIE: 13:29

Heroin. Oh.

REBECCA: 13:31

Oh yeah, no, that too. But, bitches be shopping. And shoving. Yep. All the shopping. All the money.

JAMIE: 13:38

Yeah. same. I definitely shop to cope. sometimes it's not even very, I don't know, it's not like a conscious thing.

REBECCA: 13:51

Not to go back to the pandemic, but there was very little to look forward to. Yeah, just full disclosure. My daughter at the very beginning had to be hospitalized. Like she. Almost died. She got so sick and that fucked with me for a long time. And so Everything was terrifying. And that little bit of like, something to look forward to and something to like be excited about. Like I latched onto that. and I think that's when things really ramped up.

JAMIE: 14:20

Yeah. That messed a lot of things up. I keep thinking. And now I don't remember what my train of thought was.

REBECCA: 14:27

disassociating that can be harmful. Stop to feel things. you have sleeping on here, like things like sleeping.

JAMIE: 14:34

Oh yeah. So

REBECCA: 14:35

if you like good, but also oversleeping can actually not be great for you either.

JAMIE: 14:40

Oh yeah. Or when you like, what is it called? What's it called when you're like making yourself stay awake? it's like revenge amphetamine. basically meth. No,

REBECCA: 14:54

I know what you're talking about though. When like you're, I'm not fucking going to sleep. Cause this is the only time I have to myself at night or I'm going to do the thing.

JAMIE: 15:02

And I noticed that more and more. And it's so funny because I'm actually very conscious about a lot of my mental health, things, I'm very conscious of everything. So like, even in therapy, I'll be talking to my therapist and I'll be like, yeah, and I did this and I know like, I recognize that that's harmful and that's not a good response. but I mean, it doesn't matter. Like that's still going to be my response.

REBECCA: 15:27

But that's the problem with neurodivergence though, is we can intelligently and objectively spot like what our issues are, but actually putting things into practice. We can intelligently talk about our own whatever all day long, but it's the actual, like, changing things and putting those into practice that we can't do. Which makes it very difficult to go to therapy and, like, be successful. Yeah.

JAMIE: 15:55

That's why I hate it, too, that, like, Getting, getting medication, getting diagnosed, first of all, can be so difficult. and it can be just so draining too. And like getting diagnosed with anything, like I'm referring to ADHD, but it could be anything. it's such, it can be such a long, frustrating process. And, like, once, like, let's say, then you're put on meds for ADHD and you're prescribed meds and some of them, you know, like, ADHD meds are typically, not always, but typically controlled substances and, you know, I can't get those meds delivered. I have to physically go and get the meds and show them my ID, which to me, it's so hard for us to do these tasks. And so it's taking everything in us to be able to. get our medication. So if something goes wrong and like, even with like other, not ailments, but like other mental health conditions, like add depression to ADHD. And it's like, I'm too depressed. I'm not leaving my house. And then I'm like.

REBECCA: 17:06

My fancy meth delivered. Yeah. My fancy meth needs to be delivered to my house.

JAMIE: 17:11

Give me my fancy meth. give me my, give me my legal meth. Goddammit. yeah,

REBECCA: 17:20

But again, it's those that is those Disassociations and like you have to hype yourself up to go do it Don't feel better until you get the meds and it's just a vicious fucking cycle

JAMIE: 17:30

Yeah And I'll like I'll go days with that's what I did just recently kind of is like I'll go days Without meds and I'll be like, oh, I don't have meds Just gotta go get them Just got to get up and go outside and go get them and it's the hardest thing sometimes

REBECCA: 17:49

Not throwing you under the bus, but as someone who hasn't like used them for a long time I've noticed that when you're like, why am I crying? I don't know and the answer is like did you take your meds? You're like, oh no because you're not used to it. And so yeah used to it Internalized and just feeling like shit all the time. Yeah that You don't ever think it could be something that's not you, and that's not an internal issue. It's just you haven't taken your meds.

JAMIE: 18:13

It's very true. I mean, and I also think that's because it's like us. And like, you know me so well, so you can recognize that. Well,

REBECCA: 18:20

no, but I haven't had my ADHD meds in like a week because I'm off work and I'm like, Why do I have a migraine and why do I want to kill everybody?

JAMIE: 18:29

And that's crazy. Like I don't, I, I will go a couple of days here or there, but, overall I can't do it because it's miserable. And it's just like, I remember it was the, so before, obviously since I'm more recently on, ADHD medication, I went on antidepressants for the first time. And again, literally. have been suffering from depression and major depression, like MDD, like since, I mean, at least a teenager, and I went that long even without going to therapy because back then, you know, it's like, you're younger. It's kind of like up to your parents to send you to therapy. But back in like the nineties and even the early aughts, you know, that wasn't, a big thing. I mean, just like ADHD wasn't a huge thing, especially for, girls. so that's just not something, it wasn't very typical for people to say, I need to send my kid to therapy or for your child to say, like, I think I might need to go to therapy or I want to go to therapy. That just like, wasn't in at least where I was, like in my family, that just wasn't in the vocabulary, you know?

REBECCA: 19:43

And the ugly result of that is. You make your own coping mechanisms.

JAMIE: 19:47

It's me. I am the, I am the ugly result.

REBECCA: 19:51

No, I just mean you, as a result, like, you have to figure out something. And as a kid, you make your own coping mechanisms. And as an adult, when you have access to potentially more harmful coping mechanisms, it rolls into that, like drinking, or I don't know, gambling, or

JAMIE: 20:12

And here I was gonna say, and then you're in your thirties and still sleeping with a stuffed animal and you're like, drinking, gambling. Oh yeah. That, no. Yeah. Hard drugs. Yeah. And I'm like stuffed animals. they're all coping mechanisms, but Yes. smoking, ah, I never even thought of this. I was a smoker for such a long time. Early in my teens, I started. And I quit a very long time ago. Hardest thing I've ever done, but so glad I did.

REBECCA: 20:44

But isn't nicotine an upper, though? Like, did you get, like, that leveling out with ADHD that you do with, like, ADHD meds? Because it's kind of, like, an upper? did it help even you out?

JAMIE: 20:56

It always, it was always kind of a thing that I was like, it was very, like, soothing and calming to me. I never really thought about it as, like, me coping with depression or ADHD or anxiety or anything, but that's a thousand percent what it was. at least part of it. I mean, and it's, like, really addictive. So,

REBECCA: 21:20

Well, and caffeine, like, high caffeine levels, I was never a soda drinker ever, but then like I found a our lord and savior Diet Pepsi and man oh man. And then like Alani, Alani Energy Drinks, oh my god.

JAMIE: 21:33

Oh I need to try those. I can't do Energy Drinks.

REBECCA: 21:37

Talk about fancy meth. Well I could, but I couldn't either, but again I, instead of like ramping me up I feel like they level me out and weirdly I, like I feel like I can be tired. after caffeine.

JAMIE: 21:50

Oh.

REBECCA: 21:51

And I don't know if that's because my brain is finally getting what it needs, so it can fucking relax and be like, okay, now we can feel something else besides crazy, and like, now we can be tired. I don't know if that's it, but.

JAMIE: 22:02

That's, Crazy. That is crazy. I also drank coffee since a very young age.

REBECCA: 22:08

Yeah.

JAMIE: 22:08

So like, I

REBECCA: 22:09

used to do that with kids with ADHD though in, elementary school. They would give little kids coffee. My friend is a therapist and she, this is like way back in the early 90s. They would give kids coffee. Mm hmm. Like ADHD kids to keep them level.

JAMIE: 22:22

That's true. I always say that like, Coffee addiction is my, my dad's fault because I feel like starting at age 11, my dad was like, here, you want to try this coffee? And of course it was like coffee with a teeny bit of sugar and a teeny bit of cream. And I tried it and I was like, yeah, coffee. Cause I was just like trying to be a bad ass and I took a sip and I was like, Oh God, this is awful. But given. It was also probably church coffee at that time. Thankfully, my, my father became especially, later on, but like my father became kind of a coffee connoisseur. So that changed pretty quickly. Then it was like, all right, now we're going to have a Keurig. Now we're going to have a Nespresso. but oh man, pot coffee,

REBECCA: 23:12

church coffee, coffee. That's great. It is. Ugh, church coffee is awful.

JAMIE: 23:20

I like how everything that's disgusting to you is just gray. It's just gray. It

REBECCA: 23:25

is. You can't tell me it doesn't taste gray. That shit is disgusting. Oh, it's,

JAMIE: 23:28

yeah, I'm like, thinking about it right now and I don't like it. I don't like it.

REBECCA: 23:32

I think the other thing too is like, the coping mechanisms have come out physically. So, I'm not like, I used to cut, I, but like, I pick my, I pick my cuticles, like, my neck gets super tense and I have to like, do this to unwind, I'll Crack your

JAMIE: 23:47

knuckles. I'm always Crack

REBECCA: 23:48

my knuckles. Yeah, so there's like, physicality coping mechanisms too, that, it's like, it's spilling out and it has to go somewhere, so, it spills over into a physical situation.

JAMIE: 24:00

Yeah, and it's like a thing that you have to do, Hypersexuality

REBECCA: 24:05

is another, like mechanism or complete disinterest. And so it goes both ways. Wow. This has been great.

JAMIE: 24:19

That's okay. I love our, yeah. I mean, it's just, we're just, we're just being honest and we're just talking about what it's like. And we, we hope, and I think also assume that, people listening have had similar experiences and maybe are feeling a little more seen and heard. And even like I said, like on this show, like I even learned a lot about myself, like even just talking about smoking. I was like, Oh wow. I didn't even ever consider that. Me wanting to smoke cigarettes and me starting to smoke cigarettes regularly and make it a habit like had anything to do with my neurodivergence or not being properly a therapized or medicated

REBECCA: 25:10

have you found that as you have become properly therapized and medicated, that I'm not gonna say they're gone, because I know for me that some of those coping mechanisms or disassociation needs are still there, but have you found they've lessened, or you're able to, like, power through a little bit more?

JAMIE: 25:26

I think it depends on the day. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. The week, the month, the year. Like, this year has been especially, it's like, it's like I'm, not tolerating it. It's like I'm, I'm doing a good job. The, like, the medication and the therapy is helping a lot, but it's helping with, like, whatever my baseline mental health is. And if my mental health

REBECCA: 25:57

You're staying a float? Like, yeah. Float. Yeah. Okay.

JAMIE: 26:01

And my, and it's like, but if There are other external factors that are making things worse for me. So like at work, like if work is really stressful and my stress levels are just raising and raising and raising, like medication and therapy is like still doing this much, it's like putting, keeping me afloat above like this line very well, but it's, it, it, it's not going to do anything because like the stress is moving. The line, and I'm just slowly, yeah.

REBECCA: 26:36

It's like you're drowning, you're still drowning because you're still being dragged down even though therapy and medication are your lifesaver.

JAMIE: 26:42

Yeah, they're like holding me up, but if, you know, three more people, which is, you know, let's say like work, family, cats, are making my stress levels, you know, rise. They're going to affect my mental health. And if they jump on top of me while I'm being held up with this life preserver, it's probably not going to hold all four of us up. So.

REBECCA: 27:07

No, that makes a ton of, I mean, that makes a ton of sense. Yeah. that's true. That makes sense. Like, I'd like to get to a point, ideally, where you can go back to the drowning. Like, you're not actively drowning. Like, you can kind of, I can kind of swim. And to get to a point where I can exist, but it feels a lot like I swim and then say a float and drown a little bit. So it's kind of like, it's always in a, in a, in a. Changing state. Like it hasn't been a steady improvement yet.

JAMIE: 27:36

Right. And it's totally just like how you said, you're like, and then I'm drowning a little bit and then I'm just drowning. And that's life. That's a little, yeah.

REBECCA: 27:47

A little water in your lungs.

JAMIE: 27:48

That's just the reality of it. And I think our coping mechanisms are like a life preserver too. And. I guess like when you're hanging out, why am I still going with this life preserver metaphor

REBECCA: 28:01

because it's literally like medication and therapy. I think personally have saved my life,

JAMIE: 28:05

but even coping mechanisms. Yeah. Oh, same. Yeah. That's what I was going to say earlier is I remember, I think I started on antidepressants in like 2020. I had gone through probably Well, maybe not the worst, but one of the worst breakups of my life was somebody who I was with for a very long time. And then the pandemic and all of those effects. And so that's when I started right before the pandemic is when I started therapy, and I'm so glad I did. But the moment that I took, like I had to try obviously different medications because that's how it works a lot of the time, but the moment I even tried my first antidepressant, which I was actually severely allergic to. That's another story. It was like, I think even after just a week being on it, I was like, Oh my God, like, it helps again, keep you at that baseline where you're falling below and you're drowning. And some people I know are so against medication, but I really wish people would understand that. It's not something that's gonna alter you so much that everything's just like fake and rose colored. It's literally something to help you, keep afloat.

REBECCA: 29:29

So if you have diabetes and you lack insulin, you take insulin, right?

29:34

Mm hmm.

REBECCA: 29:35

And people, obviously, you would take insulin. But when you have depression, which is still a lack of chemicals in your body, you Why would you take medication? Like you can just pray it away or think positively. You can't fucking think positively at a medical condition. No. You can't think positively or pray at diabetes. You need to refill whatever chemical your deficit on and I will fucking fight you if you're gonna tell me to think positively through this friend who I'm not naming right now. Go fuck yourself.

JAMIE: 30:01

Yeah.

REBECCA: 30:02

Speaking of positivity, I have to go get my kid set up for her therapy appointment because when we come back I really want to talk about how this has affected kids too the reason we had to take a break is because my daughter, who is going to be 13 this next year, sees a therapist. She's also on AuDHD. And one of the things that we noticed is she was developing coping mechanisms that weren't necessarily helpful and were actually pretty harmful. So we figured setting her up now, like, actually have healthier habits than her mother. and her father, let's be honest. so she won't be having to have this conversation with her best friend in 20 years or with her therapist. She

JAMIE: 30:44

won't have to start a podcast, you know?

REBECCA: 30:47

Right. She can hopefully be able to move through the world in a way that's less self destructive as her parents.

JAMIE: 30:54

I think we've talked about this before as well, but if your parents go to therapy, You will likely have less of a reason to go to therapy, or you can have less of a reason to go to therapy. because think about it, your parents raise you and also, you know, the community that you're surrounded by, I think. and if they're mentally unwell and they're not getting help. Then you're in a bad position to start with. and then if you suffer from other mental health conditions that just add to it and make it worse, then you're in a really bad place. So,

REBECCA: 31:32

My mother is a great fucking example. because she also bitches be shopping and she also eats her feelings.

JAMIE: 31:39

Yeah.

REBECCA: 31:40

Like, we are a, I learned it from watching you kind of family.

JAMIE: 31:43

Oh, and the people pleasing dude too. Like that's like, that can be so harmful. Cause I know like my mom, like that's my mom, like my mom. And it's like, it's not even a bad thing. That's just like how I think, especially as women, we are Trained to be. I was just like, what? Cosmic says, I play D& D because I can't afford therapy. And like, yeah,

32:09

coping

JAMIE: 32:10

mechanism. Like all of my games are a coping mechanism. Like, and I go to therapy. I feel like

REBECCA: 32:16

it's that conflict avoidance though, which you are not comfortable with usually until you go to therapy is learning how to deal with conflict. Yeah.

JAMIE: 32:24

Yeah. But that's another thing is like making therapy accessible. therapy and medication is so expensive. And then what if you don't have health insurance? Why do you think that there are so many unmedicated, unhomed people in the U S because our healthcare system is shit.

REBECCA: 32:52

And we decided to close down our mental health facility. Looking at you, Portland, Phoenix, that actually help people. We are just let loose in the street because it's a temperate climate. They can survive

JAMIE: 33:04

But also it's like that like the unhomed like get blamed even just get looked at a certain way and it's like I

REBECCA: 33:12

didn't mean there for I didn't mean they're fucking gross sorry I meant it's fucking gross that we shut it down and just let go I didn't mean oh

JAMIE: 33:18

no no no I know I know oh yeah yeah I was just going off on like a different tangent it's just like we act like it's their fault and it's just, that's, that's not true. It's like our system, like our society, our healthcare system, for the majority, has caused this.

REBECCA: 33:39

There's actually a place, an outreach program in Portland for, for those people one of the very interesting things I learned is that a lot of programs designed to help those people are religious based. They're not allowed to bring their pet or their partner, they must be sober, and those are a lot of conditions that people can't meet or they have to participate in religious activities. And so they make these barriers to get that help extremely high and not doable because I don't want to come to a program without my pet, like, I don't want to leave my partner. I mean, all these things that, that could provide them the support they need. These programs are designed to be like, well, actually,

JAMIE: 34:16

again It's like, you know getting medication when you're on medication. It's like all of these barriers are in the way and They're really in the way It's systemic like the the barriers are in the way like because people like don't want to use funds and spend money to help the people that truly need to be helped. So it's like, let's make this as difficult as possible and put all of these walls and barriers in the way. and then, oh, oops, like, yes, you can't get medication then. Or, oh, oops, you can't, I don't know. come to this, shelter or something because you're not gonna abide by X, Y, and Z. And I get it. Like, yes, there should be some things that people there have to abide by to keep everyone there safe because everybody should feel safe there.

REBECCA: 35:06

But it shouldn't be praying before a fucking dinner. Like, let them eat their fucking meal one of the things, oh, the other thing I was going to tell you is that the one thing that they've been seeing from the pandemic with little kids is that little kids are no longer like emotionally where they should be. They're reverting back to things that make them feel safe. Yeah. So kids who normally would outgrow X, Y, and Z are now actually finding comfort in that. So things that you wouldn't necessarily think a kid would play with like stuffed animals. Like a

JAMIE: 35:36

stuffed animal when you're 30 something.

REBECCA: 35:39

Right. Well, and pin in that, but things that are quote, like they're too old for, they're actually going back into because they find comfort in that. And so they're reverting to a place the last time that they felt safe and they felt secure. And as adults. I think millennials are doing the same thing with Squishmallows and gaming and all those times when we felt quote unquote safe, aka we didn't have to be responsible adults. Those are our coping mechanisms.

JAMIE: 36:07

I did watch Law and Order a lot when I was younger, so that's probably why that's one of my, like, comfort shows. but it's funny, too, because a lot of my comfort shows are, like, shows from when I was in middle school. you know, so it's like Buffy, Veronica Mars, or high school, I guess. Even, even some of like the, like, even like Dawson's Creek, I don't, I haven't watched Dawson's Creek in a long time, but like, I have done a rewatch of Dawson's Creek before because it was like comforting. For some reason, it's the, I don't even know how to unpack this, but for some reason, it's those shows of, I don't know, those like coming of age teen shows?

REBECCA: 36:46

Like their biggest problem is like, I'm gonna lose my virginity. Like that's their biggest problem. And mine is We need to make a tax payment of 5, 000. Like,

JAMIE: 36:54

let's see. Mine's like, how am I going to afford more rent when I got laid off? Right. And the job market's awful. Also, fuck Dawson. Let me just say that. Everybody knows that. Ugh. but yeah, but it is. It's shows like that that I typically don't watch. yearn for when I'm in a state of either crisis or major discomfort or depression or stress, anxiety. Like, it's that type of thing that I typically want to put on.

REBECCA: 37:26

They're called cozy games for a reason.

JAMIE: 37:28

True. Yeah. Cozy games, cozy shows. Like, yeah. Let's put

REBECCA: 37:36

Marina has her like cozy blanket like her electric blanket that she retreats to like she's like I'm going to my blanket now like it's a cozy thing and

JAMIE: 37:43

cozy pets you know yeah having your cat on your lap

REBECCA: 37:47

yes yeah cozy pets I have to say though, give it up for pets. Who are, coping mechanisms. They, they nap with you? They cuddle with, they are,

JAMIE: 37:56

oh yeah, for sure.

REBECCA: 37:58

The best. I just said give it up for pets and I hate myself.

JAMIE: 38:02

Everybody give it up for pets! Applause. I have two cats. Detective Snoop and his girl Friday. he honestly is like way too smart for his own good and it's really annoying, but it's fine. Rebecca, how many pets do you have?

REBECCA: 38:23

Three and a half. I have two dogs, an ancient cat. And a poodle who is mentally like,

JAMIE: 38:37

Harper is the one you're giving a half. I thought you were giving the half to the cat.

REBECCA: 38:42

No, the cat gets more than a half. Like she was legitimately hit in the head so she tries, but

JAMIE: 38:50

oh my God, let

REBECCA: 38:51

her decided to have like a nice life. And we don't expect a whole lot out of her. I want to figure out a nice way to say, like, without putting myself in a position where if anyone from work saw this, I would be fired, but certain substances have also been very useful in. Coping and disassociating, but also, like. Giving your brain a space to be quiet.

JAMIE: 39:14

Yeah.

REBECCA: 39:15

Like silencing everything. Just

JAMIE: 39:19

that's. A lot of my insomnia too.

REBECCA: 39:22

It's so noisy up there all the time.

JAMIE: 39:25

Definitely that is a major coping mechanism and yeah, I mean, even just like CBD gummies, you know?

REBECCA: 39:38

Yes, that's what it is. CBD, taking CBD gummies and nothing else. CBD gummies work. CBD gummies.

JAMIE: 39:46

Don't fire me. My favorite is that you're like, How do I say this without getting fired? Like that was like your intro was like, I need to be careful and not get fired. How do I say this? And it's like, don't even, don't intro it like that. But it's fine. Part of my problem with insomnia too is like my brain never shuts up to begin with, but as soon as I, like my head hits the pillow, my brain's like, you remember that bitch in third grade that stole your pen and you had written your name on all your pens? And then when you were like, Courtney, this is my pen. Why'd you steal it? And she said, that's my pen. And you said, But it has my name on it. It says Jamie and she says, I just wrote your name on my pen. I

REBECCA: 40:36

go back to everything I've ever said that has led me to gallons of humiliation.

JAMIE: 40:42

Yeah. I just

REBECCA: 40:44

lay in bed awake. mortified at that one thing I did that one time.

JAMIE: 40:49

Or I lie in bed awake thinking, What did you do today? Jamie, what did you do today? You did nothing today. Are you proud of yourself? Are you happy now? You did nothing. You better do something tomorrow. You better get your shit together and do something tomorrow. Rinse, repeat.

REBECCA: 41:08

Anxiety. That's rolling down into kids as well. kids are having more and more anxiety these days. Again, the pandemic really fucked up so many people, but especially kids. And so kids are now learning how to do like breathing exercises and self centering and the, what are the five things I can see.

JAMIE: 41:28

And how to hide and keep quiet during a school shooting incident.

REBECCA: 41:33

Oh boy. That's a whole other thing too. Getting them to help now instead of being like, ah, they'll be fine. I think it at least gives them a better chance than we have.

JAMIE: 41:43

Yeah. No, I agree. I

REBECCA: 41:45

do have to say though, Jamie, we are fucking adults, and we go shopping for groceries, and we feed our pets, and we are alive. Up until recently, we both had 10 jobs. We will have one again. That wasn't your fault. Like, we are both, we are both gainfully employed, and doing really well. Like,

JAMIE: 42:05

We were Jamie until you fucked it up. Fucked it up, Jamie. But that you were gainfully employed.

REBECCA: 42:11

All the energy goes into that and then you don't have any energy left to like do the stuff that you need to do to survive anywhere else. Like it goes into performing like high performance at work and then mm-hmm The end of the day, you're so wiped out. You have no choice but to like

JAMIE: 42:25

curl up in a ball and cuddle a squish melow and a pet. And watch and

REBECCA: 42:31

watch Dolphin's Creek.

JAMIE: 42:32

Yeah. Mm-hmm Exactly.

REBECCA: 42:34

I'll just say Being aware of it though, and this is not me trying to like put a like a, a happy face on it, but at least being aware of it and talking about it instead of just like Stopping it down and pretending everything's fine, which is what I think a lot of what our parents do and did. I think talking about it, though, has helped. And so, again, not, I'm not putting, like, a, a kumbaya bow on it, but I think having you, and the more you and I have talked about it, and grown closer, I think being able to talk to you, like, when I'm in that mood, It feels less lonely that you're in this headspace, and so the need to disassociate is, is less because you're not like in that boat,

JAMIE: 43:16

there's a lot going on and especially that's what I was gonna say earlier was just like it's, it's really true that as millennials, we, we have experienced just like an insane amount of, bullshit. You know? there's just so much and then on top of it like the pandemic which was just definitely not the most fucked up thing that has been going on but that that really like I don't know put like a a scar on everyone a mark on everybody.

REBECCA: 43:57

By the way, Pokemon is hiring. I keep getting, like, job posts for Pokemon, and if anyone is in the Washington area, they are hiring, and there was an editor job,

JAMIE: 44:07

Is it, in house only? I

REBECCA: 44:08

feel like you could, no, it's hybrid, but I feel like you could convince them to make it remote. Honestly. Can I? Because I was looking at the job, you could 100 percent do that.

JAMIE: 44:19

Yeah. Well, maybe. I'm just

REBECCA: 44:21

saying. Pokemon has a weirdly weird ton of jobs open that I keep getting, like, alerts for.

JAMIE: 44:28

Yeah.

REBECCA: 44:30

Twitch is also weirdly hiring a lot of software engineers and data engineers.

JAMIE: 44:40

I guess this is also a good opportunity to talk about discord, Rebecca,

REBECCA: 44:43

With our Discord, we have a community where we have set up several channels. I have learned how to use Discord, which I'm very proud of myself we do have multiple places for job seekers. So, we have one for job openings. We have one to network. We have ones where you can share your shit. So like, share your portfolios. Share what you've created, share what you're working on, like

JAMIE: 45:05

share your artwork. The more

REBECCA: 45:06

people we have, yes, the more people we have in this network to kind of collaborate with and, and connect with. There might be something out there that someone has or knows of that's open, that's a perfect fit for you. You never know. but job openings for your company that you know of, just drop it in there. We have our co working and body, body doubling channels. So there's co working for chatty people. There's co working for those who just want to like silently work together. but again, it's just a nice place where you don't have to be alone with your thoughts. Again, just building that community of people to support you to get through all the hard things that, like, you don't necessarily want to do.

JAMIE: 45:42

Yeah.

REBECCA: 45:43

And it has been helpful. I cleaned my, my whole office at one point just to be on a call with you.

JAMIE: 45:49

That's what helps me a ton. And it's so funny because I keep finding out to, like, how helpful that is to so many people.

REBECCA: 45:58

Yes. It really, really is. Yeah, come join. There is a link on our website. You can join it. And you don't, I mean, you don't have to do a lot in there. You don't have to do anything in there. You can lurk, but if you need people. I cannot recommend it enough.

JAMIE: 46:14

And we play games in there too. Like, we play games with each other. We disassociate with each other. You know,

REBECCA: 46:20

I'm looking at our share your shit channel now and we have work outfits. We have cats. We have video game clips. We have, artwork. We have pictures of food. Someone edited a D& D style episode for a client, they're sharing theirs. It's just fun. It's fun and silly and it's, yeah, makes you feel less isolated.

JAMIE: 46:41

Play games with us

REBECCA: 46:42

one over there.

JAMIE: 46:43

And also we're very like, we're there, like that's why we do this for the community. We do this to, I don't know, give people a place to hang and give people a place to get supported, especially if you

REBECCA: 46:54

also. My sister recently joined.

JAMIE: 46:57

Okay. So she still hasn't made it to the podcast. She hasn't made it to Twitch, but she joined our discord. So that's a big first step. good job, Rachel. I'm proud of you.

REBECCA: 47:09

Yeah. And if you tell mom about this, I'm going to tell them about that thing. So don't.

JAMIE: 47:15

Now we're resorting to threats. That's fine. That's what, that's what we do here. It's a safe space after all. but thank you so much for coming. I guess you guys

REBECCA: 47:23

until we,

JAMIE: 47:24

yeah, we'll see you in a couple of weeks.

REBECCA: 47:26

Happy

JAMIE: 47:27

new year. Have a happy new year. All right. Bye everybody. The Burnout Collective is hosted by me, Jamie Young.

REBECCA: 47:35

And me, Rebecca McCracken. You can find all our episodes, plus show notes, at burnoutcollective. com.

JAMIE: 47:42

Follow the discord link on our website to join the burnout community. You can also find us on TikTok and Instagram.

REBECCA: 47:48

If you're interested in being a guest on a future episode or have questions or feedback. You can email us at podcast at burnout collective. com.