The Burnout Collective
We're tired af. We're sick of this sh*t. And we're guessing you are too. Welcome to The Burnout Collective podcast—a place for broken, burnt out brains to talk it out. Join us and our guests as we Do Our Best(tm) to break the burnout cycle.
We podcast live on Twitch every Thursday at 5pm PT. New episodes are released the following Tuesday anywhere you get your podcast fix.
The Burnout Collective
We’Re LiKe A FaMiLY HeRe
It's time for us to talk about everyone's favorite manipulative sitcom family: The Work Family. We'll give you tips on avoiding workplaces that mirror the most unhealthy family dynamics, dealing with companies that expect you to just drink the Kool-Aid (especially startups), and share our own personal stories. Plus, we talk about the importance of pay transparency and how to advocate for yourself when you need it most.
Have a suggestion for our next episode? A burnout story to share? Send us a text!
The Burnout Collective Podcast is hosted by Jamie Young and Rebecca McCracken. We’ve had every ounce of inspiration sucked out by years of startups and hustle culture, and we’re trying to reclaim our creativity. Join us and our guests as we explore how to restart and reenergize our brains. Every Thursday at 5pm PT, we stream live on twitch.tv/TheBurnoutCollective.
Join our Discord community: discord.gg/ZwBjbmVfAF
Follow us on Twitch and Subscribe: twitch.tv/theburnoutcollective
Follow us on our socials: linktr.ee/burnoutcollective
Music track: Snap Your Fingers by Aylex
Source: https://freetouse.com/music
We just want you to know that this is not just a podcast with two white women complaining. I'm Jamie and I'm Rebecca. Welcome to the Burnout.
Speaker 2:Collective. Your mother is even time policing us. Okay, listen.
Speaker 1:Ihd'd the schedule okay. So here we are. So sorry we're late. All the time police in chat can calm down. Thank you everybody for the subs. Lately too. We had a little sub party the other night when we were playing party animals as well.
Speaker 2:So thank you guys we were just saying earlier, we still haven't put up a tree. It just doesn't feel like the season, and when we asked emily, should we put up the tree, she was like nah, you must turn the lights on. So that's where we're at. Yeah, no one's in the mood and it's three days away.
Speaker 1:No, four days away please don't tell me that. Yeah, I know I'm not going to want to do anything today, but tomorrow it's on the other important thing that I really wanted to call out.
Speaker 2:So I've been buying illicit freeze-dried Skittles online for several years now and the sour ones and I just saw today that Skittles has come out with its own. It has its own, like actual branding. Even tell me that I literally found out in the last 10 minutes on target and they have sour and regular. So Merry Christmas to us I know, this is not the thing I thought you were like I've been really wanting to talk about this.
Speaker 1:I thought this was discord. I was like, yeah, this is serious and you're like sour Skittles.
Speaker 2:All of these sensory seekers sour crunchy, fruity, they're kind of insane Perfect and quality control, instead of having to buy them from some Mormon in Utah.
Speaker 1:Hey, listen those Mormons. They really do a really good job of freeze-drying candy. I appreciate it, I know, but these are cheaper. I'm going to sell out to the man instead of the Mormons. When it's like the man versus Mormons, like apparently we're choosing the man, Any other plans for the last end of the week? No, I just need to get my tree up and clean more.
Speaker 2:Did you get the cat's presents? That's the important question Do you get your cat's Christmas present?
Speaker 1:I don't know if you know this, but I got laid off, so I don't have a job right now.
Speaker 2:Oh, actually that's a great segue, jamie. If you go to our Discord, we currently have a job openings channel on our discord because it's the season to not be working and a couple of our friends have also unfortunately been laid off, so we are posting any helpful positions that we can find in there, things that we think might make a good fit for the people we know are in there, but that's just a place to go to find jobs, essentially commiserate. If you know of any openings of your company that aren't necessarily listed, feel free to throw them there please.
Speaker 1:We have so many people that have been laid off um even just in the discord and also like other friends of ours, or well, the colleagues. What? Did your did your mom learn how to use? I don't think she knows what she's doing, mom, mom, oh, my gosh. Mom, you started a hype train. It's a lot. Now they have her credit card info. Yeah, now it's easy. Now it's easy for her to do it. Merry christmas burnouts, merry Christmas.
Speaker 2:Burnouts 11. Holy crap. Thank you, Mrs Jamie's mom.
Speaker 1:That was very nice of you, very sweet, awesome. Well, we're off to a really good start. We're not even through our babbling intros yet.
Speaker 2:We also just wanted one more shout out. With our Discord we have a co-working channel, chatty and Quiet. So a lot of us are having to work on our portfolios or our resumes or anything like that. So if you just, or even if you're just work working, you have those two channels so you can just kind of like collectively hang out. You just want some company, if you just need some distraction. But the quiet one is also if you kind of want to do heads down work, just so you kind of feel like you're not having to do all this by yourself, because it can be super stressful and isolating. Yeah, and it helps a lot. Oh, we do have a body doubling channel too. So if you need to do things like wrap gifts or put up your tree or make a child-sized couch or clean parts of your house or apartment, you can do that with company on the end and use the Discord app on your phone. So it's mobile.
Speaker 2:We do have more announcements because I forgot. Congratulations to our friend Alyssa, who currently got a full-time gig. She will be joining us in the beginning of January for our first guest episode. Yes, you can find her under Economy Mythos. She's the World Builders Book Club. She streams every Friday, so the first show of the new year will be with Alyssa, which is so exciting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is really exciting. It's going to be so great. It's going to be nice to have a guest, because that is something that we've been wanting to do.
Speaker 2:I think there's one more thing I did want to bring up before we start is that you asked a really interesting question earlier this week of are people going to come to the show and just see it as two middle-class white bitches bitching about the world? I thought about it a lot and I wanted to address it Lest anyone get the wrong idea. It really isn't just two white girls here to bitch. It's more about us trying to build a community for other people. We just happen to have the platform to do so, but it's meant to really give people a place to kind of go have these conversations, not necessarily feel like they're struggling through this by themselves, and especially with all of what next year holds. Yeah, again, I think having a community is super important, and so that's sort of my little PSA is. This is more community building for us than it is just airing our grievances.
Speaker 1:Well said, if people come in and watch us I think for just a few minutes and either don't know us or haven't watched the show a lot, I think they could get that idea. And I was just editing some of our show and I stopped it and I was like Rebecca, did we just come across as two privileged white women complaining? But yeah, it really is that. The basis for this whole thing is not even the podcast. The basis is literally our Discord, discord and community, and so that's why we're so encouraging to like get everybody in there, because we literally are trying to help each other find jobs, trying to help each other get that creative spark back that you've lost, get back to doing art, get back to streaming on twitch, or start streaming on twitch for the first time, because it's something you've always wanted to do, but you were scared and maybe you don't know. Well, we have a community and we're here to help and we're here to I don't know like we just want to lift each other up.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I mean we don't. We're not benefiting from the discord in any way, shape or form, except that it's no longer just the two of us. We now have like more people that we can pull into our kind of support network and we have a lot of fun and we also play games too.
Speaker 2:So even if you're just a gamer and you're looking for people to play games with, just being around these people is so inspiring getting to see all these really cool things that other people are making and doing and just putting out into the world and being able to share. That is so. I don't know. You know I don't talk like this, but it is very nurturing, nourishing for the soul. I think that's. Anyway, that's what that is. I love this for you.
Speaker 1:you have to talk. I'm gonna throw up a little bit more. Okay, come gain friendship. Yeah, join the Discord only for personal gain. If you're trying to find a job, do whatever you want.
Speaker 2:And it's not filled with middle class privileged white ladies either, by the way, just in case anyone again just to hammer home, that's not what we're doing.
Speaker 1:These are for the clips. We just want you to know that this is not just a podcast with two white women, white women complaining. Sorry, we're privileged white women, so let's get started speaking of friendship.
Speaker 2:What are we talking about today?
Speaker 1:we're all just a family, we're just a family.
Speaker 2:We're like a family here. We're like a family here. How would I describe this workplace? We work hard, we play hard, we're a bunch of go-getters and we're like a family here.
Speaker 1:Oh God, I hate that. Family means I don't get to have PTO, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:That is correct, because family doesn't take time off.
Speaker 1:We're always family. Yeah, you don't take time off from your family.
Speaker 2:You're family forever.
Speaker 1:If they're your family, you have to love them and give all of your time to them.
Speaker 2:Just like your family. The majority of them are unmedicated and untherapized and essentially feral so and manipulative.
Speaker 1:Because they're like manipulative, right, they're putting that idea in your head, they're just dropping that in there. And then you're like, oh, it's a family, yeah, people are nice, it's a family. And then you're like I really should go home and eat and rest. But you know what we're like a family and I'm gonna stay here and I'm gonna help out my family until nine o'clock at night.
Speaker 2:Okay, this is like one of those no shit things, but so one of the signs of cults is like deprivation from sleep, from food, from outside activity, from conversation, like there are multiple signs that things are a cult and what you just said was like most of it. Oh my God.
Speaker 1:We're like a cult here.
Speaker 2:We're like a cult here.
Speaker 1:Drink the Kool-Aid.
Speaker 2:That's how it is, especially at startups right, and it's not drink the Kool-Aid, it's. We have a keg in the kitchen, yeah.
Speaker 1:We also have foosball and a pool table and air hockey.
Speaker 2:All you need is right here. I worked for a company that would bring in breakfast and lunch, so you didn't have to leave the company. You had to stay right there and get all of your meals there.
Speaker 1:I used to work for a company like on Venice Beach and we had like our own personal chef who was a personal chef to the stars and I can't remember who in particular, but it was somebody very famous and I would always convince him to make me really fun vegan stuff because typically they didn't have a lot of options so that was 20 minutes in and we have the first.
Speaker 2:You have the vegan counter vegan.
Speaker 1:Okay, I think it's out of my system. Okay, it's gone, and so they. So we had that for lunch, but my favorite was dinner. Typically people would leave like at five, sometimes four, but they would very conveniently have dinner delivered. Sometimes they'd get like thai or sandwiches or something, but it was usually pizza and it would be delivered at 7pm. If you stay and work, you can get some free pizza, and then are you really even having to pay for any meals? No, just stay here. We have really comfy couches on the second floor. Why don't you sleep here?
Speaker 2:It's Venice Beach pizza, though.
Speaker 1:So no, it was good pizza. It wasn't like from Venice Beach, no please.
Speaker 2:I worked with a girl who took that literally and so during lunch she would go upstairs to one of our couches and would just take naps. She would just be whole ass napping on a couch in front of God and everyone. I love that Middle of the day. Wait, who is this? One of the girls I worked with at this startup and I love that. Honestly, it was super ballsy. She did get fired because the men did not enjoy seeing a woman relaxed in any way, shape or form. I really admire her guts. That took guts to just nap. That took some moxie Places that have showers, gyms and showers Worked for a couple of those too. So again, you don't ever need to leave your house.
Speaker 2:You can work out and take a bath here. It's so weird I don't want to know my co-workers are anywhere naked near me at all no, that's no.
Speaker 1:I, I think I blocked this out. So at the same place, here we go. We had showers. I forgot we had one or two in one of the back bathrooms, because the tech bros would get up at five in the morning and go surfing on Venice Beach. Then they would walk straight to the office and they would shower and get cleaned up and get dressed for work. Together oh, I'm pretty sure not together. It was like a single shower, I think, in a bathroom. Okay, good, because this I mean still bad, but good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of the other places brought in a guy to give us flu shots, so you didn't even need to go to the doctor, they were just going to give you flu shots in the office. Have you ever been in an interview where they're just they pull that shit and you're like red flag?
Speaker 1:Or are you just like I'll just deal with it? I'm guilty of saying that, but I always say it with the caveat. I hate saying this, but we are like a family.
Speaker 2:I have to say the people like who are under you and who you've managed I know you've mentioned before that they are like actual family, just kind of the bonds you've built, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like people I've taken with me places and we've taken each other to different companies.
Speaker 2:The bond that you formed has been trauma-based, just like a family actually yeah.
Speaker 1:So it is like a family. That's how this episode's gonna end, you guys.
Speaker 2:Spoiler alert it is like a family being a family means there are no more boundaries. It is an erasure of boundaries and it crosses over into your personal life, and so when you say, hey, I'm not sick, they feel comfortable asking well, with what that's it like that? Yeah, yeah, actually, john, I just have diarrhea today and mentally feel unwell, so that's why I'm not coming in. Is that what you wanted to know? No, I'm out sick, but it's just no boundaries. It also means like you don't go on a honeymoon because you've started working for a startup and you don't feel comfortable taking a week off for your fucking honeymoon, have you?
Speaker 2:never, had a honeymoon. No, oh my god, they think that they're entitled to your life. You can also spot when people have been there before. So one of my direct reports used to be like I'm gonna go for lunch. I was like you have to stop telling me where you're going and what you're doing. I don't care, nor should I care. Yeah, none of my business. I don't give a shit. Don't tell me, right. But also it's a bad habit to be in because you're afraid you have to account for every minute of your time, because after you've worked at a place like this where, yeah, there's like a crossover of professional and personal, you don't know how to untangle that. Yeah, I.
Speaker 1:I hate that so much. If I want to disclose any personal information to you, I will let you know. Otherwise it's just I need today off or I need next week off. I have an appointment, that's it.
Speaker 1:Also, managers, this is just a pet peeve of mine personally as an introvert that I know we've talked about, but it's so frustrating to me that every Friday I would have managers be like oh my God, what are you doing this weekend? Are you doing anything fun this weekend? Weekend? Are you doing anything fun this weekend? No, susan. No, I'm staying home. I'm playing video games. I might go out and do an errand or something, but otherwise I'm just like I'm here and I'm sleeping in and playing video games. So stop asking me what I'm doing, because that's going to be the answer every time. And then I can see it in your eyes as you're judging me. That's my answer every time. And then when I come in on monday, they would also ask what did you do? What did you do this weekend? I'm like did we not just have this fucking conversation like three days ago, susan?
Speaker 2:nothing. My meetings are so short because I genuinely don't care. I don't want to ask what you're doing. I don't want to know what you're doing. I don't want to know what you're doing.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't always want to go to holiday parties because I was trying to have like healthy boundaries and live my life not at work and literally like the guilt and the shame, and I know I think most of it probably stems from a place of oh, I want to see you and I've worked remote for so long that it's. I want to meet you face to face, which is great. Don't make me feel guilty for not wanting to go, and especially it's like the holidays, so it's like the busiest time of year.
Speaker 2:Most people are doing stuff with their families or friends or found families and I also want to interject here and say, especially if you're a woman, how the fuck do you think holidays happen? Men, we can't do stuff during december, because that's when that magic is happening and everything that you enjoy the last week of december. That's what we've been doing, that's what we've been doing, that's what we're doing there's so many good dirty jokes in there but we're not gonna do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah, in the interview process I do see it as a red flag, but I think I have done what you've done, or I've been like I'll just deal with it, or sometimes it's even like everything else seemed good. Typically it's a red flag. It's definitely something that I look at as a red flag, but that doesn't always mean if somebody says that I'm automatically like nope, not going to get that job, because typically when I'm looking for a job I don't have one, and Like nope, not going to get that job Because typically when I'm looking for a job.
Speaker 2:I don't have one and I need one. Yeah, so Okay. So, just like families, they put you in the fucking corner and you can't get out of it, because you're financially beholden to them and you're reliant on them for Maslow's hierarchy of needs in the form of your paycheck.
Speaker 1:And God forbid that you try to negotiate your offer, the compensation, or your offer Asking for a raise, asking or later asking for a raise, like dude asking for a raise with family, with work families. I had a manager that it was a man, it was indeed a man, so anytime different compensation things would come up, whether or not, like I was being asked to do an entirely new job, or one of my direct reports was asked to do an entirely new job with a new title and a new gig and it was a promotion and then trying to go to bat for them to get them a promotion and get them the raise they deserve. And my boss is just like why are you asking for money? You really should just work hard and earn it and then we'll give you the money. Show us that you can do the job and do the work and then we'll compensate you for it. Years later.
Speaker 2:You can't go to that sleepover until you show that we can trust you. It's that, yeah, sort of mindset of 1000. Actually, you really do need to do, you need to work for it and show us that you deserve it.
Speaker 2:It's that wounded, it's acting wounded, the professional wound, oh yeah, no it's manipulation, it's all manipulation, that's something we've talked about a lot, especially when you go to work for former co-workers who are now your boss, who you did think were like family, and then you realize the purchase is bad, but we do have found family outside of all these works, however, Outside of all these works.
Speaker 2:Outside of all these jobs, outside of all these works, outside of all these works, outside of all these jobs, outside of all these works, outside of all these jobs. So I've gathered my own little group of people who I carry with me just in my life that I've gathered from all these traumatic workplaces you're my person. It's you, it's you.
Speaker 1:Wow, really brought that down, huh we're not just here complaining about shit, but honestly it does. It sucks. And maybe there are, you know, some babies out there who don't have a lot of experience in the job market or they're just starting their career. Take a second look. If anyone says to you, we're like, we're really like a family here, honestly like a pause, they do like dramatic pause honestly the non-profit boss where she's.
Speaker 2:We just really need you to be dedicated to the mission. It's that really manipulative conversation, like conversation and that way of talking and also the ways that family communicate unhealthy families communicate with that sort of passive aggressive. We don't talk about problems. It prevents healthy communication and healthy conflict in the workplace. So you just have a simmering pot of rage underneath the surface and they're fine knowing that. They've continued to not let you get that out there because well, they've controlled you.
Speaker 1:They're like they controlled you. He's not gonna do anything right because we've manipulated her hard enough. We've beaten her down. I felt like that a lot. There were a lot of times, especially early on in my career, but even a little later, where I did feel comfortable standing up for myself and I sure as hell felt comfortable standing up for my team or my co-workers. But yeah, there have been times where I was like this isn't right and I need to tell them that. But I've been. I've felt so like pressured and beaten down and like belittled that and manipulated that.
Speaker 2:I feel like I can't say anything and I didn't because they turn it around on you, they, they act like it's a personal affront to them instead of so. One of the best pieces of advice I'd ever got was like a communication in the workplace ideally is it is about work. It is not personal. It's about work. It's about helping you do your job better. Except with this whole we're a family thing they turn it into we take this personally, it's a personal attack on us. It's not about how to run the business better. That sort of unhealthy familial dynamic just kind of pours over into non-communication in the workplace and they encourage it and it thrives.
Speaker 1:It really does and that's just the like one toxic person, that's like at leadership level. It just slowly still snowballs into an incredibly large framework, large, just a group of people that are toxic and that makes the extremely toxic work environment where people feel like they can't speak up and they can't ask for what they deserve, and it truly is that. And this is where you know like pay disparity comes in yes, oh, that's the other thing.
Speaker 2:It's not illegal to talk about your pay, guys. If they ever tell you it is, you can't talk about your pay.
Speaker 1:And you should. I liked to go around like testing people out to see if they wanted to exchange what they get paid. If anyone asked me, like at work, I would tell unless it's someone I don't really know but I would tell them on my team and I think it's like my way of secretly, like trying to do my own version of transparent salary formula, but it's just transparent, like within my team and like the people that I talk to but they discourage it and they triangulate workers again in a really unhealthy familial dynamic.
Speaker 2:It just echoes the way that unhealthy families are like, triangulating and pitting workers against each other. And because if you come together and you discuss, then oh no, someone's going to hold them accountable for their behavior.
Speaker 1:And there's always the person that's so traumatized they don't even know what happened to them when, like, you'll have a meeting and it'll turn into either, you know, maybe a bitch fest, or people talking about pay things that like you're not supposed to talk about, which you can maybe a bitch fest. Or people talking about pay things that like you're not supposed to talk about, which you can. You absolutely can. You can tell anyone you want how much you get paid. And then someone's in that meeting and they're like that wasn't right, they shouldn't have done that. So then they like, go tattle.
Speaker 2:And it's who hurt you that you're tattling a man Never more tattling people than adults at the workplace. A bunch of tattling ass people At, like big companies.
Speaker 1:This is insane Tattles. If bosses post propaganda forbidding discussion of pay, that is grounds for a lawsuit. Yeah, it's illegal. They can't do that. Also, if you live in one of the states where they have to disclose pay in a job description Like California Like California, or if it's a remote job and it is open to people in California or New York and wherever else has it, they legally have to put the pay range in there A pay range for the role.
Speaker 2:I'm shocked at the amount of hr people who don't know labor laws. Kind of like when your family, who have never been to therapy or understand boundaries.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, it's true man, this comparison just keeps getting better, because I feel like we were like yeah, we can talk about this and we can really compare it to a family, but it just keeps getting better and better and also just like a family.
Speaker 2:There's always a creepy uncle who will probably touch you at some point at the workplace. That's very like family here. The good and the bad, yeah, no, the amount of people who don't know labor laws. And again, people just continuing to exist in this world without knowing this and just going about and everything's fine, and even when someone comes to them and says, hey, it's illegal, well, maybe get a slap on the wrist.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe get a slap on the wrist and it's whatever and it's. You would rather do something illegal. That's crazy to me is that you would rather do something that is illegal than tell someone how much a role pays, which is like the single most important fact they want to know for the job when you ask in an interview, how much it is, and then they're like well, I mean, what do you make now another?
Speaker 2:Another tip, ladies and gentlemen, ladies especially, they're not allowed to ask you that, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't tell them. I know it's hard and it can be so awkward and it'll take practice. But if I'm not ready to discuss that, actually if anyone asks what you were paid, or if they, or even if they say which this isn't illegal. But even if they say which this isn't illegal, but even if they say what are you thinking for this role, Don't tell them or do what some people do and give them a just ridiculously high number. But I would not give them anything.
Speaker 2:I do have to shout out the last HR person I dealt with who was going to ask me what are you thinking of the pay range? And then I was just silent. And then she said a number that was way, way higher than my number and I was like, didn't do any of this I was supposed to. I was just a money pig and went okay, that sounds yeah.
Speaker 1:So I really fucked that up yeah, that's another thing is always negotiate. Don't ever take the first offer, because no one I listen podcast at burnout collective dot com. Email us if this is you or you have a story, but I have never heard of anyone saying I tried to negotiate my offer compensation and they decided not to give me the job. That doesn't happen. Yeah, should ask.
Speaker 2:Oh God, we don't go there because we get satisfaction from the work. We go there because we have to live in a place and eat food. Oh my God, just like a family. We're doing the best we could. Ok, we're doing the best. We knew how.
Speaker 1:All right, I'm your father, you should just love me, just love me. Don't ask how much your allowance is going to be every week. Come on.
Speaker 2:C-suite is a toxic dad, hr is the enabling toxic mom. And, by the way, I have not told my parents about this podcast, so I'm going to throw them right under the bus here. One of the things I think we've alluded to is that I was raised in a super strict household, very religious, and one of the things that was held over my head was money. So we will stop paying for your college if X, y and Z. There was always the threat of we will take away something that you actually need to get ahead in the world if you don't comply. And there's sort of that same fear that falls into companies where there's like a wealth disparity, where they have something that you need, aka your fucking paycheck, and there's a fear that if you ask for more, they're like I mean we could take all that away. Is that what you want? And it's really okay. It's fine. Yes, that strings attached. Trauma has me fucked up with my family and it rolls over into the workplace.
Speaker 1:Yep, and people a hundred percent take advantage of it yeah, it's terrible and that's why it's just this endless cycle of trauma, Like you're literally being traumatized over and over when people are making you like I know you like doubled my work or whatever, but maybe you could just give me, if you could just give me $2,000 more, like just for 2,000, please. And they're like you work this role. Listen, we gave you the, we gave you responsibility, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, it's responsibility, no, but this is a new role that we made for you and, yeah, god it's responsibility. This is a new role that we made for you and, yeah, you earned those how many times have you had that pulled on you?
Speaker 2:Because I can think of at least two. I've had a brand new role, quote made for just you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's made for just you. It doesn't pay anymore.
Speaker 2:God damn it.
Speaker 1:Merry Christmas everyone.
Speaker 2:But the trauma continues. So I my boss way back brought up, like hey, I'm planning to promote you. I never brought it up again because I knew for sure in my heart that if I brought it up it would turn into a situation, not because I get those vibes, but just because that's how it's been everywhere else. I bring it up, they'll think I'm just talking about money and you know I won't earn it or whatever, which is deeply unfair to him. There is no way. He did not make it seem like that, but that's just sort of the alert response. So when I actually promoted I cried on the phone call because I was not expecting it at all.
Speaker 1:And then you cried on the phone with me, I think two other times that week, within a few days.
Speaker 2:Yes, but because it was like, and he was like and here's more money I didn't have to earn my way into it. They just yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:That happened happened. That happened with me too at my uh, one of my recent jobs, where I got a promotion but I wasn't actually doing the work of the role until a couple weeks later because there was like a transition or like whatever. And so let's say that I was starting this new position on January 1st but they told me, like December 2nd or something like that, they would have made it. They made it go into effect right away. All the time. And that was my moment of oh, oh, you're giving me like back back pay, like the promotion, and the money starts in like weeks before I'm actually doing the job. Yes, yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, we're promoting you, we want you to have that immediately.
Speaker 2:And I was like, oh my god because and again, just like families, that way that you're feeling is the same way I feel when someone's oh my god, I love my dad so much, like. What do you mean? He's just like my best friend and we get along and I just love hanging out with him. What do you mean? That's not how it goes. So similar with the business stuff. Oh, that's how it's supposed to go. I was not aware that the people did this. Yeah, yeah, our therapists are going to be so proud of us next week so tell me, what did you unpack at the podcast last week last?
Speaker 2:weekend. I have one more way. It's like a family. Yeah, shitty christmas gift oh god, like that weird thing you get from your grandmother also rolls over to my boss getting me two star wars prints that he found on etsy because I had mentioned ones that I had seen them. He was like she will enjoy this. I mean that's gonna be cool you still? Have them. I was so angry. I'm so angry because the answer was more money and I got fucking star wars prints from etsy robert, who, god, I love so much.
Speaker 1:He took them to michael's and paid so much money to get them professionally framed well, now you have to take a picture of these and we'll add it to the disc I didn't tell them how much I hated them, and so for christmas he got them professionally framed and I opened those like oh, he wrapped them for you. I, rob, I love you. That's good. She doesn't need a honeymoon. That was enough.
Speaker 2:That was perfect this is so great wait, he didn't do it ironically oh, I know, it was so nice. The other bad gift was again, instead of more money, same boss who got me stories prints also got me a coach purse oh, I remember that actually I know, and it's getting very weird.
Speaker 2:It was very weird because, yeah, I was like you could have just a. You could have just A. You could have just given me this money. B, no, c, yeah, e Like. Purses are very personal and some of us don't like that, or want it, or need it, or feel uncomfortable with a bag that has its own bag.
Speaker 1:You know, when, like men have like assistants at work and they're like that's exactly the and they're like that's exactly the secretary and they're like, hey, I don't know what to get my wife for our anniversary to the secretary, they're like what should I get her? You know that's what it is, but I think it's the opposite. It's I'm supposed to get gifts for these women that I work with. They're like asking their wife she's I don't know. I mean, I want a coach purse.
Speaker 2:And again just give me money, please, just give the money. Just give the money. Don't buy a shit. Grandma Also boss, just yeah, do not buy me Star Wars prints.
Speaker 1:Just money. We'll take the money, Money please.
Speaker 2:Money.
Speaker 1:Sponsor us.
Speaker 2:Yes, so money sponsor us. Yes, so write a check.
Speaker 1:Sponsored by money. Honestly, this has felt like I feel relieved, it's felt really good to talk about it and get it out and like even just warn people that might not know. I mean, I'm sure all of us know. But, like I said, there are some people that are like new to their careers and you know, I didn't know all this when I started. And those are the times when I just shut my mouth because we're a family here and comes back to always ask questions and seriously, always negotiate. I negotiate severance. They lay me off, they fire me. I negotiate severance. You guys Like, in my opinion, I guess there is a chance something can happen, but in my opinion, you negotiate it and the worst that can happen is they just say, no, it's this, take it or leave it. That's true. The best that can happen is they really surprise you and they give you a ton more money, your job back Please.
Speaker 1:That's far too much to ask. Once you're out of the family, you're out of the family for good. They want to remove your bylines.
Speaker 2:I'm just kidding I'm not, but elisa just put have you learned how to self-advocate, and again in a family? That's something that's not encouraged at all, and so you have to learn it as an adult if you grow up in a type of environment where that's not encouraged at all, and so you have to learn it as an adult if you grow up in a type of environment where that?
Speaker 1:was not encouraged. I think it's something we always talk about, like it just seems to always come up.
Speaker 2:The last thought I had was all the things that I'm doing as a fairly, this is the largest team I've ever managed, I think, so still new to that. And I'm thinking of all the things like I try to do and none of them encourage them to be closer to me in any way, shape or form or make them feel obligated to me or like they owe me. Yeah, and I think that's the difference, because, again, bad family does that Toxic family does, does that? Toxic workplaces who say we are like a family. They make you feel obligated to them and like you owe them. And the biggest thing you could ever do as a manager is go. If you want to find somewhere or if you find somewhere else, I will 100% support you into moving on to your next place. I just want you to be happy. I support you whatever you decide to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's it.
Speaker 1:That's all. Like I hope for, too is I try to be a good manager and all I hope is that if anyone were to ever and I don't need to hear it but if anyone were to ever ask somebody who I managed oh, did you like having her as a manager? Because I was thinking about, like, getting this role and it would be under her, like. All I hope is that they say, oh, yes, do it Like Jamie's a great manager. That's all I want. And I don't know, is that weird, is that? I mean, that's not why I tried to get a good manager, but I think that's all I can ask for. Is that? Or even if they're just like, yeah, she's good, like she's not a shitty manager. It's just like she's not a shitty manager. I think I would even take that, because the standard the bar is so low. It's so low. The bar is in hell.
Speaker 1:Our point is that typically, you trauma bond with the people you work with and you become your own little family. So it's like just how blood doesn't have to be your family. You can have your own found family for everything else. I think we have our own found family for work, except it's made up of people that we don't work with anymore. We both worked together and here we are and we're so close and, like Alyssa, like we worked with Alyssa and we're so close and we've just built this little found family. Out of all the trauma bonding we did, man, there really is just nothing like trauma bonding, huh yeah, and you?
Speaker 2:those are the people that you can find within your like co-working space that you can go. My diarrhea is so bad today I cannot go to this.
Speaker 1:And if you can get that while you're working there, that's like perfect. But sometimes it happens after, because sometimes people are too afraid to talk about it, depending on, like how toxic the situation is. So sometimes, like you get laid off and then you're all like, oh, let's start this chat outside of work and start talking and like exchange phone numbers, and then you find out that everyone else was going through the same thing as you. You were all just too scared to talk about it.
Speaker 2:That's like getting your IRL siblings together and oh my God, Doing the cousin walk at Thanksgiving, that's when that all that shit comes out. Yeah, we compare notes.
Speaker 1:And investing in those bonds rather than competing to get ahead. That's another thing. Is that's part of the toxic culture? Is they're like? We're like a family, but then you know, stephanie, or whoever treats it like a competition and is just there to, I mean you mean stephanie the tattle bitch who tattles, yeah stephanie the tattle bitch.
Speaker 1:You find your family built up of those people and I think that's awesome. I am so thankful for my found work family. Still to me it's like my little introvert army. And then alissa, who we call the introvert whisperer the extrovert who's an introvert whisperer? The emotional support extrovert yeah, yes toxic families also pit sibling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they 100, triangulate the siblings. It's like when my sister and I, at 39 and 36, finally start becoming friends after we've come wait, just now. I mean the past couple of years, yeah, like we weren't really. We weren't really close before that yeah and I think a lot of it would be parent, my parents being like, oh well, just talking shit, pitting you against each other, because they don't want you to talk, because they know, if you talk, that you will rise up.
Speaker 2:That's how unions are formed, janie, and that's how a union is born union my siblings and I formed a union, again against my parents, oh god yeah, I just wanted to thank everyone again, yeah thank everybody for thanks everybody for coming.
Speaker 1:I hope you all get a coach purse. Oh, and thank you to everybody for the subs and the gifted subs. I know we already said that, but it really means you, Mrs Jamie Palm and Manic and everyone else Like I don't. Yeah, no matter what you give, we really appreciate it and we love this. We love doing this. So we will catch you all next week. Have a good holiday or season. We're doing the mom thing. We're long goodbyes. I know I do long goodbyes, Whether I'm trying listen, I'm trying to wrap this up with a nice little fucking bow. So if you could just let me do this, I'm trying to say we hope you have a good holiday with your family, whether that's your found family or your family. The long goodbye, I'm so good at it. All right, the Burnout Collective is hosted by me, Jamie Young and me.
Speaker 2:Rebecca McCracken. You can find all our episodes plus show notes at burnoutcollectivecom.
Speaker 1:Follow the Discord link on our website to join the burnout community. You can also find us on TikTok and Instagram.
Speaker 2:If you're interested in being a guest on a future episode or have questions or feedback, you can email us at podcast at burnoutcollectivecom.
