Speaker 1: 0:00

real life, tamagotchi, but with your pets, rebecca.

Speaker 2: 0:02

This is terrible. Well, so far, fake pets have not worked. Let's just raise the stakes. That's a new business model. We just get a guy in there who holds a gun to your cat's head and is like pick up the living room.

Speaker 1: 0:15

I'm Jamie and I'm Rebecca. Welcome to the Burnout Collective.

Speaker 2: 0:22

Welcome to the Burnout Collective. Hey everybody, oh my.

Speaker 1: 0:27

God, hi, I feel like I don't know what I'm doing because it's been so long.

Speaker 2: 0:33

Welcome to another Burnout Collective podcast. We are so glad you were able to join us today. I know it's the holidays, so thank you for taking the time out of what I'm sure is a busy schedule to come visit us.

Speaker 1: 0:46

Or hopefully you just don't have a busy holiday schedule and you're able to just have some you time.

Speaker 2: 0:53

It's true, another party trick. If you're sick of your family, go into the bathroom, come watch our show, and then you can go back out there in three hours Just in the bathroom for three hours Listening to the pod. Well, that's the best thing. Like you can just say don't come in here and it sounds like you're wrapping presents, but really you're just hiding.

Speaker 1: 1:13

Yeah, bring wrapping paper in with you and just like, crinkle it now and then Maybe some ribbon and some scissors.

Speaker 2: 1:23

Just in case shit goes south. You know how they have the yule log for youtube. We should do that, but for like moms who need to hide and just have like an hour loop of gift wrapping sounds that they can just play. How was your week, jamie?

Speaker 1: 1:36

my week was pretty good. I feel like it went by very quickly and it I don't know it was it was good. I've been like super tired, like today I thought I was getting sick. How was your week, rebecca?

Speaker 2: 1:54

I got to go to San Francisco for work. I've never been.

Speaker 1: 1:59

Oh, I guess I didn't realize that was your first time in SF period realize that was your first time in SF period.

Speaker 2: 2:04

It was it was my first time in SF period, yes, so for four days I wore pants and bras and shoes and peopled, yeah, and so I am exhausted.

Speaker 1: 2:19

I didn't realize how out of practice I am at peopling, but every day felt like I was putting on a show and that's just like an introvert introverting like I would also be so exhausted. I'm like that, even just with meetings, bro, like even not in person with people, if I have long ass meetings, I like go like just get up from my desk and immediately like go get in bed after.

Speaker 2: 2:50

It was energizing to like meet in person the people I actually work with. Don't lie Girl don't lie, girl don't lie. And I knew it was time for me to be done when one of the bosses said well, what do you want to do after dinner? And my actual out loud response was go back to the hotel and take off my pants. Wonderful so.

Speaker 1: 3:12

I wasn't lying. I think Rebecca made a lot of friends on this trip.

Speaker 2: 3:17

I did. I meant that with my San Francisco. Aside from whatever that smell is, I do have a problem with your targets closing at 8. What do you mean? You close at 8?

Speaker 1: 3:28

Especially around the holidays. I'm very perplexed by this.

Speaker 2: 3:31

Yes, they didn't have Uncrustables. I asked they don't sell Uncrustables.

Speaker 1: 3:39

This stream's gonna be so chaotic.

Speaker 2: 3:40

Wait, wait, wait. One more thing. One more thing, yes, please. For introverts who are traveling, I did not know you can get day passes to airport lounges, but you can and I got a day pass each way for the airport lounge for alaska airlines. It is hands down the best 60 I have ever spent in my entire love alaska airlines my favorite.

Speaker 2: 4:01

They are my favorite, it is they are so nice, they have wonderful food, they have like very comfy seats, it's quiet, they have quiet bathrooms. You know, for that IBS friend of yours, rebecca, it was the best. It was honestly the best, like recentering and recalming and Recentering, it was recentering. It was the best cup filling experience I had, wow.

Speaker 1: 4:34

I also like, as you're reminiscing too, I feel like you're, like, you're almost even like blushing a little bit, like thinking about it.

Speaker 2: 4:41

They had free food and free drinks and candy. Tell me more about this. Candy and carbs, comfy seats and wi-fi and no children. And it was wonderful I love that I love that for you. Yeah, so I found my. I found where I belong in this world.

Speaker 1: 5:01

That's just like the true meaning of your life.

Speaker 2: 5:06

Yes, the true purpose if we ever get big enough, I am 100 going to ask if we can chill for alaska airlines. Oh my god can we do?

Speaker 1: 5:14

that's our goal. Our goal should be to do a live show in an alaska airport lounge. Yes, I would absolutely love that and they can like sponsor us, alaska Airlines, please sponsor us.

Speaker 2: 5:30

Sponsor us. And there was a golden retriever at the airport yesterday too, and so I got to hang out with him for half an hour. And I have reached yeah, I've reached the age where I unashamedly ask someone if I can pet their dog.

Speaker 1: 5:43

Sometimes I forget to ask and I just like go in for it, but I'm trying to be better.

Speaker 2: 5:49

He didn't have a vest, it wasn't one of those dogs, it was just a dog dog. So we played ball and we hung out and again centering, calming, cup filling get a dog, anyway. The best thing is coming home to pets, though, and I'm sure, like because you had a trip recently, last weekend like the best thing is coming home to pets who really have missed you and then insisting on sleeping on your face the entire night long.

Speaker 1: 6:13

Yes, yes, I like to say my cats like flank me.

Speaker 2: 6:18

So, anyway, today's topic that we will be covering is getting shit done. That we will be covering is getting shit done, and one fun fact about women as they get older is that their ADHD symptoms get worse, while men actually tend to grow out of their ADHD symptoms, and so I think one of the things yeah, bastards, one of the things we found is that, as we've gotten older, our ability to hold our shit together no longer works as well, and it is getting harder and harder to complete the lists of to-do tasks around here without completely falling apart and so we kind of wanted to talk about how we handle that, tips and tricks, because, again, as this is the burnout collective, that is one of the things that is.

Speaker 2: 7:00

A constant cup emptier, I don't constant burnout contributor, whatever the word is. Maybe we can come up with our own word?

Speaker 1: 7:09

yeah, that's true, just constant fucker constant fucker. Yeah, no, I like that one we were just talking about, kind of like, just getting shit done, especially from an area of you are completely burnt out and you don't really have a lot to give. And it's especially hard to get shit done.

Speaker 2: 7:34

And if you're in an especially fragile mental health space, whatever you do is never going to look like it's enough and you're always going to have like this running list of shit that needs to be done in your head. You're always going to have like this running list of shit that needs to be done in your head. You're always going to feel behind. Also, not knowing where to even start has been really difficult too. So, like, even even getting the first step toward going through your task list is so difficult and in like the worst depression days, I, I just can't, and then that just compounds on top of each other because you feel worthless.

Speaker 1: 8:08

I had to like quit to-do lists, like because? For this? For that very reason, because I would be completely depressed and completely burnt out and I think to-do lists worked for me. Initially, I think I adopted like really hardcore being all about to-do lists when I was just trying to compensate before like I actually, like, had an ADHD diagnosis, so it was just like how I coped with it and I'm very bad at routines in general, so I guess that was like a tiny sort of routine that I had.

Speaker 2: 8:46

But eventually, just like I was in such a bad headspace and suffering from many mental health ailments that the to-do list just became a point of like how many journals would you say you have and how many sets of special colored or glittery or sparkly pens do you have that you were intending to write to-do lists with and then never got around to it? I have a whole box.

Speaker 1: 9:13

It's like infinity, like I don't even. I couldn't even tell you. I could maybe count the pen sets that I have, perhaps oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:22

Every time I see a journal too, I'm like well, this will be the one, this will be it.

Speaker 1: 9:26

Yeah, this I will write lists with I think I tried like one or two productivity planners or like yearly planners, and I was like this is not for me, like that was too overwhelming for me. It's like, hey, plan out your whole year and like, in theory that sounds great and I would love to do that and I would love to be that person, but honestly, that stresses me out every year, at the end of the year, I buy a planner for next year and did you buy one this?

Speaker 2: 9:56

year I did. I just got it. It's on my desk and I cannot wait for five months to go past when I find it under a pile, and then I'll do a month of it and then forget again. Then it'll be December.

Speaker 1: 10:08

I think I did find a planner actually just like a month or two ago and it was from like 2022 or something, and I had filled out like one page of it and then, but like what did I do? But then I was like oh, but this is cute though, though, and so I like just put it back in the spot it was in. That is like basically just like storage, like forget about me spot and.

Speaker 2: 10:33

but the thing is, the worst part is like actually writing it down, I think for some people makes it more concrete mentally, and so I have found that sometimes, when I do write things down like I'm able to remember it, I never do.

Speaker 1: 10:46

I was always so digital, like everything was digital, like I was journaling digitally when I would journal. That's how I planned shit out. But for some reason, when I wrote these to do lists especially when they were, you know, because they weren't like work related, they were very just like personal, more like cleaning the house I would physically write it down because I mean. So I actually not only do I have a ton of journals I'm trying to see if I have one in this like mess around here, but I also have a ton of like pads that are literally like productivity to do list formats and like every time to this day, like if you showed me one that I thought was like really cute or looked really great, today I would buy it. I would be like, yes, I need that.

Speaker 1: 11:33

That's fun, it's gonna fix my life right. Get some new nice pens and like some felt tip, maybe some sharpie pens, some g2, some pilot g2s. Are those still a thing? I haven't used one of those I get the japanese pilot pens these are from like muji, but I think these are from muji in taiwan, because like ruth brought me a couple of them, uh, but the tip on these is like oh my god, look at you influencing pad.

Speaker 2: 12:02

You know how many pens I have that. Still have that like little wax tip on them are you serious?

Speaker 1: 12:09

oh man, I just had a flashback to this. Now I'm like showing off all my pens. So like this one's so cool there was a instagram ad.

Speaker 2: 12:18

It was like the cat app helps you remember shit, and I downloaded it and then it only let me do like one thing and it's like come back tomorrow. I was like no, I want to do all the things now and fucking tell me something where are the fucking cats, rebecca?

Speaker 1: 12:31

where are the cats?

Speaker 2: 12:33

nothing, nothing. And it was just like you have to do this in stages because we want to make this a habit. Except if I can't do it all right now, I'm not going to come back to it, because now I'm mad about it. So I didn't use that for a week and then deleted that recently. Another bench one, the bird one. Oh yeah, I don't give a shit about feeding or watering my bird. My tamagotchis all died. I don't care. I don't care. I'm not motivated by this animal that's pretend. Maybe that's the maybe, that's. The idea is like if you don't do it, your pets, your actual, real life pets die. That would maybe motivate.

Speaker 1: 13:09

My god what real life, tamagotchi, but with your pets. Rebecca, this is terrible well, so far not.

Speaker 2: 13:16

Fake pets have not worked. Let's just raise the stakes.

Speaker 1: 13:20

Now I just want a tamagotchi that's a new business model.

Speaker 2: 13:23

We just get a guy in there who holds a gun to your cat's head and is like better pick up the living room this is awful.

Speaker 1: 13:30

I don't like that. I mean right now.

Speaker 2: 13:32

I mean I don't want to say it, but right now I might be like okay okay, or he takes all the cat food and you can't have it back to feed the cats until you do the thing. Do you want them to eat, jamie? They'll just probably start eating me. Clean that living room.

Speaker 1: 13:50

Do it, do it, jamie I feel very attacked right now because my apartment is such a mess, all right, fine, I'll switch it around.

Speaker 2: 14:00

Someone comes and holds a gun to my dog's heads and tell me that I have to put away my laundry. Is that better? Like would you do it? We'll threaten my animals. I don't know.

Speaker 1: 14:09

Would you do it? I don't know.

Speaker 2: 14:12

I'm kind of tired. Yeah, I know, maybe tomorrow it's terrible. What if I did it tomorrow?

Speaker 1: 14:22

We shouldn't be allowed to be in charge of anything, especially living creatures pets and or children.

Speaker 2: 14:32

Yeah, you have you tried like actual apps. So have you found any that have worked for you at all?

Speaker 1: 14:36

so I'll just plug my friend michael's app. So the app I use, I use it on my mac and on my phone, mostly on my phone it's called fantast Fantastical. They're constantly like updating it to make it better. I think it just looks very aesthetically pleasing and it's also very simple and you just kind of use gestures to like do different things. It's very sleek. I've used that forever, like way over a decade, maybe at launch. I think I was using it since launch because that was back when I did like tech and app journalism and I'm sure I got it for free. But yeah, fantastical is great. I love that for my calendar. I do. I am still using.

Speaker 1: 15:23

I don't know if you were aware of this, but were you aware of all the like GTD bullshit where they had these very elaborate apps like OmniFocus? I don't know what GTD is, getting things done? It was just the idea of like you just barfing up everything that's on your mind that you have to do and then you would move it into categories that's on your mind that you have to do and then you would move it into categories. And I always tried to make this work for me because it seemed so cool, but it just it never did work for me it never worked, but one that was kind of in that. That's kind of a GTD app.

Speaker 1: 16:08

It's called Things. I still use that to this day. My dad and I are obsessed with Things. It's called Things. I still use it to this day. I might like, when we do show notes for this, I should put like some screenshots in, because I have everything. Like I have like a section that's like doctor and then it has like notes or like recent things. I have like a section that's like these are all the medications I'm currently taking and the dosages. I have a section for like gifts where I separate it out by like the people closest to me and like I add ideas for what I might want to gift them for birthdays or holidays.

Speaker 2: 16:37

So it's not like a to-do list, though. It's just more like info dump.

Speaker 1: 16:40

It is a to-do list. I wonder if I don't have it I don't think they have it for PC or if they don't do I don't have it. I don't think they have it for PC or if they don't do, I don't have it for PC. So I can't show it right now, but I can maybe bring it up in browser.

Speaker 2: 16:57

No, it's fine, we can I mean, we can also Google. If you can't find it, it's not a big deal. Domestic blisters is a kickoffer that I've watched for a long time. And one of her other things she said is like, instead of striving for like perfection, it's like striving for doable, and this is a super extreme example. But she's like, if you have a sink full of fucking dishes that you cannot deal with, throw them away. Just pick them up, throw it away and start over, like it's better. You honestly like, yes, save the environment, but in this moment, like it's better that you are able to get your shit together and just start over again, and that one pile of dishes like is not gonna, you know, contribute to overall global warming.

Speaker 2: 17:40

You need to be able to exist yeah and again it's like such an extreme example, but that idea of like putting yourself first and just doing whatever it takes to help yourself instead of like continuing to struggle, yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:55

It also like her. I love her so much. She actually like helped me a ton when I was I think I had just gotten diagnosed with ADHD and was starting meds for the first time and like I think that helped give me a little push as well. But that's what that was my like. Remember my crazy like all I did was just like organize everything and it was insane.

Speaker 1: 18:20

But she kind of and not that she's like that, like she actually is like I'm not the TikTok account. That's going to be like look at this perfectly organized fridge with all these containers in it and everything's decanted in the pantry into this. Like she's like the opposite of that. She's like I don't do that shit. She's like I'm real, I love her, her laundry system I think she has a big laundry room now, room now and so she has like all these cubbies in the laundry room where she just like it started with her kids clothes because she was like folding her kids clothes and then having trouble folding things and keeping up with it and she's like why the oh, why am I folding these kids clothes? Like they're babies like that? Who cares, right?

Speaker 1: 19:00

um, oh, look at that wrinkled baby's clothes right, nobody's gonna say that nobody's paying attention to the baby's clothes. They're just like, yeah at that cute baby.

Speaker 2: 19:08

They're going to literally shit up their own backs into the clothes anyway. Yeah, what is the point?

Speaker 1: 19:13

You're gonna have to wash it like in a few hours anyway, so just deal. But so then. But then she applied it to like her clothes and her husband's clothes, so like I think her husband's a lawyer. So there are things that she does hang up for him and like a few things that I think she hangs up for herself, but other than that everything's just like put in a. I mean, I don't think she like crumples it up and like throws it in a bin. I think she kind of lays them in a bin. To me that's a very good thing, because she was working with herself instead of like working against herself and trying to do it this way because it's the right way, and I love that she's working with her own limitations and I think one of the things with getting shit done is realizing your limitations and then accepting those verses, berating yourself, which is really difficult, yeah you are your own worst critic.

Speaker 1: 20:03

You are always gonna tell yourself how awful you are even when you're not.

Speaker 1: 20:08

You started like making time for yourself too, which I think is huge and something I think a lot of people don't do at all or even know to do yeah, I mean I'm still working on it, but like I think one of the things actually started with us meeting about the burnout collective because scheduling that and I also added it to my work calendar. So, like all throughout the day, when I would look at my calendar for different meetings, I would see that like oh, on Saturday I get to do the podcast and that was always like a fun little you know nugget in a sea of. So, yeah, I did that. I started scheduling like more things.

Speaker 1: 20:51

So I try to be good about like like I went and had lunch with my friend Ruth yesterday and I put that in my calendar. Like we decided the day before, but I like put it in my calendar, so it's there. So I also think it helps me to have like a time. So if you're ever trying to hang out with somebody and like shit keeps falling through, like don't be afraid. I know it does sound kind of maybe stodgy, but don't be afraid to say like can we do a calendar invite or something? Let's do that.

Speaker 2: 21:27

You know, what's really interesting is this also transfers over to work, because, like, the higher up you get, the more meetings you have about everything, and then also you have to get work done. And I've started, I've started like saying no to meetings, like no, we need to reschedule this, because before it's like a fear of you have to go to all the meetings or you're seeing it's like not a team player, but also you have to get work done, and so I would rather feel balanced than crazy all week long yeah, schedule, I have to.

Speaker 1: 21:58

Yeah, time block that's uh, that's actually something I was telling rebecca that I just started doing. Like I've been doing what I do like career-wise for like 13 years and just this year I was like, oh, I really need to start scheduling time blocks so that I can actually get work done. Because I know it's different, but, like I was, I was a manager and so my calendar was always like full of meetings, some of which I had control over canceling or not going to others I did not, and so so people would schedule stuff for me like all throughout the day because I had everything open Time block yourself, take the time. I would do like weekly time blocks where I had like a time block in the morning first thing, because I'm also not a morning person, so I will not have a meeting with you before 10 in the morning unless absolutely necessary, and maybe you live in like London.

Speaker 2: 23:00

Yeah, but can we talk about, like, when people start taking fucking advantage of that, they're like well, it actually is necessary, so we do need you to attend this eight o'clock meeting, or, like they schedule on your time block anyways, which is come on man, I I was kind of a bitch about it.

Speaker 1: 23:14

People would schedule over my time blocks and I and I would message them and say like, oh, hey, I can't make this. Then I have something already on my calendar, can you? But that is a thing like I didn't understand that, unless I have a big group of people in a meeting that I'm trying to figure out a time for all of us and there's one person who has that I can tell it's like a personal time block. I still don't know what it is right, but I asked them. I would say like, hey, I know you have this time block for yourself. Is it at all possible this one time to do this, do this?

Speaker 1: 23:47

I hated that people did that to me all the time. I started doing my time blocks too, because, depending on how you have your calendar set up, people can see either they just see busy for all your meetings or they can like see the names. I would suggest changing it. So I didn't change. So everyone saw busy all the time. But I made my time blocks for myself to get work done. Just say busy. So that way it's not like personal time block or like get work done. But that was absolutely a game changer for me and I don't know why it took me 13 years to do that. I mean, I I've done that for specific projects like time blocked a couple hours, you know a few days a week, to work on something specific. But literally I would have two time blocks every day and sometimes more, depending on what I had to work with. Yeah, no, I highly suggest, highly suggest.

Speaker 2: 24:43

Off the top of my head, by the way, this just popped up. I have started like scheduling gifts and so and david is my go-to for christmas gifts and so you can buy ahead and then just schedule whenever you want those to go out, so like birthdays, christmas, whatever and then just buy them, see when you want them delivered. Genius, I didn't know you did that.

Speaker 1: 25:06

Oh my god, do you have a harry and david basket maybe, like scheduled for me?

Speaker 2: 25:10

I mean, if you want one, I will, I will absolutely do that, I freely give out my address for those pairs yes, they. I mean, they are good too and they're local. So automating, automating things to like make your to-do list smoother or easier, automating your shit automating your shit.

Speaker 2: 25:29

I want to automate everything all the time asking someone for help is underrated, but like body doubling has been life-changing. I know you and I started out all of this by just being like I need to wash my fucking dishes and I need someone to. Just, it's honestly like distraction while doing chores, but it's like please wash my dishes and I'll wash my dishes.

Speaker 1: 25:51

It's like watching like a riveting movie or tv show. When you're like on the treadmill, you know, yes, trying to like just which never works for me, by the way, also just treadmill in general and it's not like, oh, they're holding me responsible, I don't.

Speaker 2: 26:06

I don't know if it's just like we're suffering together and so there's like camaraderie in suffering, or what I don't know.

Speaker 1: 26:16

It's like I mean, it's the same for me. Like my friend ashley just was like I'll, like I I we were talking about mental health and I had told her like I'm currently working my way out of my like depression hole apartment because, like this whole year has been a really bad year for depression for me, and she's like I totally understand. She's like if you ever want me to just come over and sit on your couch while you do stuff and keep you company, I will. And I'm just like marry me. Will you marry me?

Speaker 2: 26:43

I have offered to fly out there, I know oh shit, I shouldn't have said, shouldn't have said that.

Speaker 1: 26:47

Now I realize I shouldn't have said that.

Speaker 2: 26:48

Yeah, I don't fucking think so, Ashley.

Speaker 1: 26:50

Now's a bad time to tell you that Alyssa offered to fly out and I told her I was like that's really nice and that's really great and everything, but like Rebecca has offered to do that multiple times and I've told her no, and so Alyssa was like what I'm hearing is Rebecca and I just both fly out. And I was like okay, I mean I'd be down all right next week.

Speaker 2: 27:12

Come on, guys, let's go, let's do it next week, yes, but it's true, just having someone there like just body doubling is. And even like, if you do have someone in the apartment or the house, like I was like Rob, I, I can do this, just tell me where to start. Like I just, I, I can do this, just tell me where to start. Like I just need, I just need you to tell me where to start and what to do and I can do it. But like I'm overwhelmed when I have to figure out the next steps, which leads me into goblin tools, which is fucking great. You can basically use it for anything and everything. But what I like to do is I'm like here's everything I have to do. I need you to make a to-do list for me and break it down so I know exactly what to do and where to start. And it's like prescriptive and it is.

Speaker 1: 27:59

It takes away that like that freeze response, like that overwhelm, and helps you just like do the thing yeah, like I think when you told me about it, the first thing I put in was my house is a depression hole and I need to clean the entire thing. And then I clicked enter and it was literally like the first step. So it breaks it down into the tiniest steps and the first step why are you laughing? Why are you laughing? This is my life. Stop laughing at my depression. Step one no, get a gun. Like what? No, it was like no, it was like. Step one take a deep breath, which honestly made me laugh. So I feel like we're already off on the right foot. Um, take a deep. Yeah, it was like take a deep breath, take a deep breath.

Speaker 1: 28:46

This is a weird productivity hack. Sometimes I pretend I'm at a friend's house, but I'm just at home cleaning my house, so I get the good feel. Alissa, that is very that's sad. See, that's just sad to me. Are you okay? Yeah, are you okay, alissa? I pretend I'm at it's not sad.

Speaker 2: 29:05

So you're basically Truman showing yourself.

Speaker 1: 29:09

I deserve to have help too. This is definitely a cry for help, for sure. I mean, I guess maybe we just have to go over to Alyssa's right.

Speaker 2: 29:19

My invisible friends are here.

Speaker 1: 29:22

This is a very good opportunity for us to plug our Discord. This is a very good opportunity for us to plug our Discord because we actually have body doubling. We call them like co-working channels that Alyssa has been in and benefited from. I hope.

Speaker 2: 29:44

Like instead of, you know, imagining she has a friend with her at home. One option for people who enjoy talking. Another option for people who enjoy talking another option for people wait.

Speaker 1: 29:52

Yeah, so if you want someone in the room with you, even just like on video or off, like if you just want a video on, so someone's like there, which that's really weird to me, but we have a channel for you. Just have a local friend randomly call and say they're going to be over in 20 minutes and they're on their way. Then have them check back in in 30 and say it was all a lie, see, but then I would be like prepared for it, you know you know?

Speaker 2: 30:18

what they could do is they could pretend to be your apartment management company and email you to like they're coming over to test something in 30 minutes.

Speaker 1: 30:25

Are you saying that because, like, that's something that gets me motivated as fuck?

Speaker 2: 30:32

yes, oh my god, they're coming over to test the fire alarms. Tomorrow, oh my god, they're coming over to change the ac filter hey, they never actually tested the sprinklers.

Speaker 1: 30:41

They said they were going to test the fire alarms and the sprinklers and I'm pretty sure they were a week late and they never even checked the sprinklers, so maybe it wasn't really them. Jamie, listen, and all this junk. I've been depressed up in here. I've accumulated a lot of shit from you know, shopping to cope and it's like a fire hazard, just saying I'm sorry, but body doubling online yeah, do it.

Speaker 2: 31:09

Celebrating small oh my God, I sound like a therapist, but celebrating small wins. Like you said that you write down things. Like if you don't have a to-do list, you write down a list of things you've actually done, because there are days where you're just like I didn't do shit, but like actually no, I fed the cats, I brushed my teeth, I got dressed. Like, even if it's just like when you are trying to climb out of that hole, like starting small.

Speaker 1: 31:30

Yeah, I think that's what my therapist made me do, because I would. I was at, I would actually journal like pretty regularly, not every day or anything, but like a couple times a week at least. And that's when like-do lists started failing me completely. I had mentioned to my therapist that, oh, I did this journal entry where, for whatever reason, it just popped in my head, I started listing out the things I had done that day and it was everything. So it was played with the cats, took a bag of trash out, went for a minute walk. You know, it was like the very oh yeah, oh dude, I'm so off the dalio wagon. What dalio? It's an app that I will talk about shortly that I got.

Speaker 2: 32:16

What animal do you get to kill in dalio?

Speaker 1: 32:19

no, it's dalio, it's just like that was. I use that to track my mood because I never remember and my therapist would always be like well, how did you feel about that that day? And like how was this and how was this? And I was like I don't remember. I was like I'm sure I was upset.

Speaker 2: 32:40

So, oh my God, jamie, you are your own animal that you get to not take care of You're. I didn't feed myself or drink water today, oh no.

Speaker 1: 32:52

So I'm dead, so I've been dead this whole time. So now this is just the ghost of Jamie, of of Christmas future and Christmas present and Christmas pass. I hate this for me.

Speaker 2: 33:06

I hate this for you too.

Speaker 1: 33:10

Why would you say, why would you bring that?

Speaker 2: 33:12

thought into the world because it just popped in. I was like, oh no, we, not just you, but like we're our own, like we're our own app animals that we neglect. We don't need apps for it, we can just neglect ourselves just fine. Saying out loud like this is only for work, not at home, because I will 100 not do what I say that I'm gonna do at home. Like one of my co-workers, I'll just be like, hey, here's what I'm planning to do today, and I say it like out loud in meetings. And so it's not that I'm holding myself accountable, but I'm just like letting someone else know that like you're doing work and I mean just you don't want to let them down, you know that you have to do it.

Speaker 2: 33:47

I think that also helps. And it's not like she's not a dick if I don't not do anything, but it just it kind of helps me sort of make that commitment to actually move forward. Yeah, how? Stuff? Not a chance? It's hard. I've been I've been threatening to like unload those laundry baskets for weeks. I've been threatening to like unload those laundry baskets for weeks now, Like threatening.

Speaker 1: 34:10

Is that how you try to get motivated? You're like I'm going to fold those clothes and I'm going to put them away if they're still here tomorrow. But it doesn't work.

Speaker 2: 34:19

Guess what? They're still here? Just little doom piles. Oh my God, I have Russian nesting dolls with doom piles at this point.

Speaker 1: 34:28

Yeah, I think I do too, actually, now that you mentioned that. So dailyo was an app that I used to track like moods, and you could track other things. Like it could be as minimal or as like robust as you wanted, like you could literally just be like I'm happy today, done. Or you can like edit the emotional mental states to like your liking. Like you could have one that's like I want to die and then another one that's like best day ever, and you can also track, like the, what the weather was like that day so that you can kind of see I would track my migraines and just kind of look at those based on how my day was, the like how I slept. You could say like how you slept that night, what the weather is, and see like themes.

Speaker 2: 35:16

So it's mostly for moods and yeah, yeah, I did that every day, but I have not done it in many, many months now it also helps when, like your person, or like your best friend or whoever has it a little bit more together, like rob, yes, also so not us, like not us, because neither of us has it together we don't.

Speaker 2: 35:39

But rob does shit like wash the towels, a thing I forget to do at all times. If he did not do it, it would not get done, and it's not because I'm lazy, it's not because I don't want to do it, it's because it's literally a thing that my brain just kind of forgets about.

Speaker 1: 36:01

I also hate the word lazy.

Speaker 2: 36:04

I hate it right, because it really isn't.

Speaker 1: 36:08

It's like if I had the energy, I 100 would, but my brain is so busy holding on to useless shit that it doesn't have time to remember actual things like wash the towels yeah, and sometimes you have to deal with the dirty towels or dirty sheets to just take care of yourself for like another few days, you know, because it's like you can't get the energy because you're so depressed and you're so, just maybe, burnt out out.

Speaker 2: 36:48

Um, I'm also gonna say medication is fucking amazing. I told my psychiatrist I was like, listen, I can handle my shit during the day, but I can tell when my adhd meds wear off and I do not have the energy to do any more. And she I was like I was like, do we just increase the medication? She's like well, how about I just give you like a mini med to take in the afternoon? That kind of helps you get over that hump and like it. It was like a no shit kind of thing. But I was like, oh my god, that's such a good idea, that's what my psychiatrist did too.

Speaker 2: 37:14

For me, even something little like that makes a huge difference yeah, it really does.

Speaker 1: 37:20

Triage for maintenance in one's dwelling is hard. Yeah, it's. It's very difficult. It's like I don't know, and I also think about how hard it is for me when I literally live alone. I mean, I am a single, single mother of two cats don't know if you know this too hard.

Speaker 2: 37:43

Who loves her cats and never stuck with gentle hands and the heart of the fighter?

Speaker 1: 37:49

two cats. Don't know if you know this. Rebecca, rebecca McCracken, everybody, good job, rebecca. You're doing a good job. Good job, you're doing your best. We're doing such a good job honestly.

Speaker 2: 38:00

But no, that's true. Like I have Rob Having to take care of it, having to keep house on your own, there's, there's, infinitely more work.

Speaker 1: 38:09

So I feel like a lot of the time. That should be easier. But then there are other times where I'm like somebody could be doing the dishes for me right now, just like lend lend me your husbands, but only for housework. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 38:38

I'm also going to go out on a limb here and I'm going to say maybe the most white lady thing I've ever said, but I want to caveat it with we make room in our budget, no matter fucking what, for this one thing. Natalia comes and she does house clean every two weeks and it has been the best fucking decision I have ever made in my life. I started doing this a few years ago. We are lucky enough to have the budget for this. But also she's been an actual lifesaver. She's been an actual lifesaver because I don't have to worry about doing this on the weekends and so I'm not constantly running on burnout and I know that I'm taking care of my family by having them in a cleaner house and I can feel better and it's like okay, one thing I don't have to do like. Even when I was unemployed, I was like I'm gonna fucking forego everything else to scrap together the two hundred dollars oh, so you like?

Speaker 1: 39:33

you cut back on shopping then, or?

Speaker 2: 39:36

I would much rather have a clean house, but did you cut?

Speaker 1: 39:38

back on shopping shut the fuck up, jamie, I I love it here.

Speaker 2: 39:45

What I'm saying, asking for outside help is, again, it's a luxury and maybe a last resort, but honestly, invaluable. And my grandparents as they were getting older, their house was getting worse and worse and I finally brought it up to my mom and it made their quality of life better.

Speaker 1: 40:01

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:02

Because they got to have a cleaner house.

Speaker 1: 40:04

I think that can be a motivator too, because my parents were the ones to clean out my grandparents' house when we had to move my grandfather to assisted living. And because it was just they lived in that house first of all for, like, my mom grew up there. So I think they were in that house for like 60 years or something, 50 years, I don't know. Just take that in like literally living in a place for 50 years, so like 50 plus years of just you accumulating your shit, right?

Speaker 2: 40:36

and also I'm guessing your grandparents were the generation where they were kind of like waste, not want, not, oh yeah, they, oh yeah, they didn't know, like the depression era, not throw away things, kind of are you?

Speaker 1: 40:47

are you familiar with the with the show seinfeld, a little bit. Have you ever seen george costanza's wallet? Yes, that's my grandfather's wallet. Like, literally, I'll have to. I should also put a picture of my grandfather's wallet and it was held together with a rubber band. It was like I think it was supposed to be just like this thick and it was held together with a rubber band. It was like I think it was supposed to be just like this thick and it was like this thick and most of it was like expired mcdonald's and fast food coupons. That, by the way, that, by the way, my grandfather bless his heart, amazing. But the most frugal man I know would still try to use and he would try to be like very tourist of him, I think, also a tourist. Just he would like go and be like, oh, I didn't know it was expired, like are you sure, don't you want to just? And then they would most of the time like he would get them to use it.

Speaker 2: 41:38

It was ridiculous obviously I can't wait to be old enough that I can steal, just like so old that you can steal and get away with it.

Speaker 1: 41:45

I feel like you can get away with so much shit when you're old.

Speaker 2: 41:49

Yes, look at that. Oh, I thought I paid for this bed. I'm so old.

Speaker 1: 41:57

I'm going to start doing that now. I'm going to be like old, sorry, yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:02

Oh, I didn't see the pun expression date. The tears of my my husband dead gained it and I read it and I still use it. Okay, just like anything, and they like you, let you get away with it. Who's gonna?

Speaker 1: 42:18

it's a little lady, for you are breaking up for me again. I don't know if it's just me. You're for me, am I Probably? Oh, so what's happening? Wait, why is there a connection? But we're both breaking up.

Speaker 2: 42:33

It's better now. Yeah, it's fine, right? Anyway, we're fine.

Speaker 1: 42:36

We're good, we're doing our best. I feel like we've been all over the place. I wanted to oh, oh, because my parents like a to-do list. Yeah, because my parents cleaned out their house and it was such an ordeal, horrible ordeal. My parents are now like they're motivated to get rid of more of the stuff they've been hanging on to. Yes, like including. I mean they've kept some of it, obviously because they do have grandchildren now, thank god, and they're just motivated to like get rid of stuff and like they've saved my mom has saved, you know, stuff we had when we were a baby and I'm sentimental too, I get being sentimental, but like there's, there is a line, there's a line I have told my mom if she leaves anything I will throw all of her shit away.

Speaker 2: 43:28

I have pointed to the things. I was like I want that and that and if you leave me anything else, I'm throwing it away. I am.

Speaker 1: 43:34

Did you just point to the money, like any money that they may have left over.

Speaker 2: 43:37

Yeah, pretty much Her bank account. But I was like I don't want your shit and I will throw it away. I'm serious and I'm the executor of the estate and I'm like I will. Is that a good idea?

Speaker 1: 43:47

Yeah, I guess it is probably.

Speaker 2: 43:49

But I'm just saying, like being very clear with your parents who are getting out there, that like I don't want your shit, I don't want your laugh, I don't want your shit If you leave it, I am telling you what will happen. So lay in bed dying, be like well, she'll get my 500 boxes of christmas ornaments, uh-uh.

Speaker 1: 44:10

No, I don't need that in my house. I've already got enough shit in my house. I still need to put up my tree and I'm like I'll put up my tree when my house is clean, but I still want to put up my tree by christmas so that my niece and nephew can be like ah, yep, I'm tired.

Speaker 1: 44:25

I'm tired just thinking about like continuing, because it's been a journey. I've literally been just slowly cleaning my apartment all year, you know, and I do like just enough, and then it gets worse again. Step out, but you did a lot. I did a lot, yeah, but it doesn't look.

Speaker 1: 44:44

That's the thing is like that's how. It's like not as motivating, because I've I did like a shit ton of work. But you look around and I'm like no one can tell that I did stuff in here like I know, because I know. But it's like if you come into my apartment you're like oh, you sent me an after of your fridge.

Speaker 2: 45:02

Did you take a before? No, I'm sick, but no, I I'm not saying I want to see the before, but I'm yeah, like you take pictures of afters, but like I genuinely mean this, consider taking you befores I'm like embarrassed by the befores, but I don't have you're right yeah, I don't have to see them, they're're for your eyeballs and then you can visually see like, oh okay, because it's hard to you kind of forget about how it actually was. But if you show yourself before and afters, maybe that would help.

Speaker 1: 45:37

Yeah, I think you're right. I have taken throughout the year. For some reason, I'm literally just like life is art and there have been at least three times where I've like walked by part of my apartment, I think, especially the kitchen, and I've looked at it and I've been like this is awful, but it's art. And I've taken a photo. I think I sent you one because it was a photo of what had happened. Something happened, I think, like my parents sent me flowers or somebody sent me flowers, and it was just like my messy kitchen, like you couldn't see the counter. I think my stove was like covered and then there was just these fresh flowers, like in a vase, in a nice vase, just in the middle of it all, and then you can see my reflection, like in my microwave, where I just look disheveled and I was just like this is art. It'll be in a museum someday because it does feel like the layers of decluttering and the chaos of organizing for so long.

Speaker 2: 46:38

Yeah, it's just here is my other thing aura katarina and not theleaner are two people I follow on TikTok and if you think your shit is bad, you have not seen five years worth of bottles filled with urine. Well, if you put it that way they're cleaning someone's house out, like they go in and they clean like sporting level houses and you're like, oh my, oh, my god, okay, and you know what. It helps me feel so much better yeah, it really really does.

Speaker 1: 47:14

I do love her. Some of it's hard to watch, though, because it is kind of gross, you know yeah, but like you don't have five years worth of urine filled I hope not.

Speaker 2: 47:24

You're in filled bottles and then you don't know. You don't know, you don't have five years worth of urine-filled bottles.

Speaker 1: 47:26

I hope not Urine-filled bottles, you don't know. You don't know, that's maybe two years. I ran out of toilet paper three months ago, rebecca. I just.

Speaker 2: 47:33

Right, but for real, though, it's like okay, it could be so much worse.

Speaker 1: 47:38

Yeah, and just look on the bright side, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 47:45

No, it's not. Look on the bright side?

Speaker 1: 47:46

I don't know. No, it's not. Look on the bright side. It's like, okay, the state of our houses is morally neutral. That's what I was saying recently. I was like you know, this is. I think that's why I feel such shame is because I look at it and I'm like this isn't me and it's not me. It's literally like this is my mental illness and out on display.

Speaker 2: 48:06

That's the thing. It's a mood board of your mental illness and like you're slowly changing that board out. No, it's not again. It's morally neutral, but it's like it's a reflection of how you're feeling on the inside and as like you've been getting better and doing things like you can tell the inside has been healing because you're able to do more and more. Yeah, that was so insightful. That's like the one thing you get out of me today. Okay, all right?

Speaker 1: 48:30

well, let's wrap this up then.

Speaker 2: 48:32

All right, I'm super proud of us no, but for real, like I, yeah, I think you should be proud. I think you should be proud of, like, everything you've been doing yeah, I am.

Speaker 1: 48:42

I think I had like my first moment. I told you like after the weekend, or I was like in my apartment and I thought I did do a lot. I did a lot good job.

Speaker 2: 48:53

Also, your fridge was beautiful, like the beverage situation alone and just how organized it was. I was like, okay, I want to do that to my, so it's that's. The other thing is like sharing your things that you've done, or your to-do, in addition to body doubling, like it's motivating to the other person we used to do that.

Speaker 1: 49:10

I forgot. We haven't done that in a long time yeah, or like, send you pictures of, like, my drawers yeah, hey, I did my drawers, or you just you'd even send me like a voice message and just be like all right, well, I'm cleaning up my office today, I'm organizing my drawers, and after I'd listen to it, I'd be like I should do something today, I should clean something. Yes, yeah, maintained my will to live today.

Speaker 2: 49:31

Check but yeah, it's not like accountable in a bad way, but just like and I'm not going to be disappointed if you don't end up doing it, and you're not going to be disappointed if I don't end up doing it, but it's just like camaraderie another thing I wanted to say about domestic blisters.

Speaker 1: 49:47

I would love to have her on the show. By the way, I don't think she does like the house stuff as much anymore, which is fine, that's her prerogative but like I miss it because like I really loved how her. What do you call it on tiktok, your channel, your account? I don't know her channel what did the kids say?

Speaker 1: 50:08

dude, your hand creeped me the fuck out, because it literally just came from like off screen. Oh sorry, no, it's me, it's me. I'm the problem, it's me, but no. Another thing that she did oh, for like dishes. She put a dish rack on her counter to put her dirty dishes, because she's like, I don't put the dishes directly in the dishwasher. And, yes, people can be like, well, just put them directly in the dishwasher. But let me tell you that is not how things work. Things work. And so she put a dish rack for dirty dishes where, throughout the day, she would still I think she would still throw everything into the sink, but then she would like take it out of the sink and, if it need, needed rinsing, whatever, and put them on the dirty dish rack so that when she loaded her dishwasher, everything was like set for her, so she could like grab all the plates and like put those in and then grab all the silverware and put those in so like kind of like a restaurant.

Speaker 2: 51:06

She's running it like a restaurant kitchen. Almost it sounds like yeah, maybe.

Speaker 1: 51:12

Yeah, that's not a bad idea, because that's I mean, that's super yeah, instead of like putting it on the thing and like running it through, she's putting it on the thing and just loading the dishwasher. Yeah, and my favorite thing is her song that she wrote on ukulele, entitled you Can't Save the Rainforest If You're Depressed, because she would do TikToks, where she's like, hey, you have that kind of like you were talking about just throwing the dishes out. You have that Tupperware that has had food in it for like months and months and months in the back of your fridge that you find and it is disgusting. You don't want to open it because you can only imagine what it smells like. And instead of having to go through that, she was like just throw it out. If you can't possibly deal with it, throw it away.

Speaker 1: 52:06

And then people were like that is like such a waste and like you really, first of all, that's plastic and like your Tupperware, like your to store food should be glass, maybe important to celebrate our wins, which we also get when we share our to-do's and body double. Yes, because then you get like, even if you're doing the smallest thing, you know, like I took out a bag of trash today, I took a giant box full of more broken down boxes down to the recycling today I had to say, though, I don't mind body doubling you, but the most stressful day of my entire life was when you thought you threw away your keys in the garbage bag and like no, not in the garbage bag.

Speaker 2: 52:51

I thought I actually threw them in the dumpster in the dumpster and like I was having a silent meltdown because I was like you were already harried and I was trying to oh god, I think I threw away my keys, like I can't do this, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't like this is too much because I was, so you didn't accidentally hang up on me, then that was like a purposeful you were freshly showered and then you're like I guess I'm gonna have to get in the dumpster.

Speaker 2: 53:17

I know, oh, I know but that's why.

Speaker 1: 53:19

That's why that's why I like didn't? I like? I like poked around a little bit and I was like, okay, before I literally like climb into this the dump, first of all it was empty. So of course it's empty, right, actually, I guess maybe that's a little better. But I feel like if it was full, they would have like just landed on top anyway. And I was like, well, before I get down into that dumpster, after I just showered and I am fresh and clean, I I'm going to go upstairs and just double check that I didn't just leave them somewhere, because that's something I would do. And thank God I went up and I didn't see them at first and I was freaking out, and then I just rounded a corner and there they were. Thank you, guys so much. Please join our discord. If you have not yet, the link is on our, on our twitch.

Speaker 2: 54:07

We love seeing you.

Speaker 1: 54:08

We love hearing from you yeah excited to see you again next week it was good to be back and I'm excited your bed, drink your water eat your incrustables. I'm totally gonna have an incrustable right after this. Guys not gonna lie. The burnout collective is hosted by me, jamie young and me, rebecca mccracken. You can find all our episodes plus show notes at burnoutcollectivecom follow the discord link on our website to join the burnout community.

Speaker 2: 54:35

You can also find us on tiktok and instagram if you're interested in being a guest on a future episode or have questions or feedback.