Jamie: 0:00

Start recording us now. It's our episode zero. We're doing it, don't yell. I'm Jamie and I'm Rebecca. Welcome to the Burnout.

Rebecca: 0:11

Collective. I think maybe start with who we are, how we met.

Jamie: 0:16

Yeah, we always talk about this being our origin story. So we worked together at a company, because we're not going to name names to protect the innocent and not so innocent. I'm just kidding.

Rebecca: 0:29

I think it was the first week and I had started noticing that alliances had been formed with people who had worked with each other, who already knew each other.

Jamie: 0:39

All of a sudden, we're invited to this ad hoc meeting. Which ad hoc meetings? I feel like everybody knows what's happening. Do you have a second to chat? Yeah, we didn't know each other, by the way, we hadn't met each other. So we go in this meeting and it's our bosses and then like a couple other editors and they're like all right, change of plans. We know we hired you as deputy editor, but now we're changing your title to derp editor, which is not the title. I can't remember what it was. Now we're changing it and we're not going to be your bosses anymore. These two editors that were your equals will now be your bosses. When you start a new job. You've got the jitters you want to like yeah, you want to make friends, but you're also trying to suss out like the real ones.

Rebecca: 1:27

you know there was too much laughter between everyone. Yeah, they all know each other.

Jamie: 1:33

I don't like this no one acknowledged that it's your first week and we're changing everything. I know this is out of the blue, don't worry, there's nothing like that. And then it was a very quick meeting and they're like that's that We'll sync later on the details and the bait and switch. The meeting ends and I'm just like sitting in front of my laptop like what just happened. And then what happened, Rebecca?

Rebecca: 1:59

So I did notice in the meeting that you asked questions and you were asking your questions. That's so surprising.

Rebecca: 2:04

I never ask questions I know it's crazy, but I was like, oh, her outside voice is my inside voice and I very much appreciate that all your thoughts were coming out, and so the second that we hung up, I just immediately called you and we're friends now. There's too many people who know each other. We're friends now and I just basically will lead you into friendship because I needed an alliance and you asked good questions and I got the vibe that you weren't going to put up with shit and you weren't part of that little fun clique, so we were going to make our own club.

Jamie: 2:34

Yeah, first of all, you did the unsolicited slack call, which is don't do that. If you're that person, don't be that person. So I was like oh god, why is this person calling me? Oh god? And I was like hello. And I think you said like we're friends now? No, I don't think you said that. I don't think you started with that. Maybe I'm wrong.

Rebecca: 2:58

I recall you saying that was bullshit, right yes, sorry, we did acknowledge the absolute bullshit of the meeting. You asked good questions. I knew I could see your face too. You have closed captions on your face. That was bullshit, right? Yes, sorry, we did acknowledge the absolute bullshit of the meeting. You asked good questions. I knew I could see your face too. You have closed captions on your face, so I knew I know you also thought that was bullshit. And again, I didn't know anybody and I just needed somebody who I could kind of form an alliance with. It's been seven years now.

Jamie: 3:18

Has it been that long? Actually, out of all the things we discussed for this, even the story, I didn't consider that 2017, right? Is this a phishing scam? Yeah, basically. And it's so funny too because, even even though at that point in my career, like I did know a little bit more about, I kind of want to say office BS, you know, office politics. But now my reaction to things like this happening is so like immediate. Someone just uses a certain keyword and I'm like oh, they're laying people off. People are gonna get laid off next week.

Rebecca: 3:51

Yes, and the other thing is, I think years of that pattern recognition. So I'll be that person in the office who's like that new guy total asshole. You're crazy. He's so nice, we let no asshole. And I have to be right for months by myself until I finally get a text message after I've left the job going. You were so right, he's a total asshole.

Rebecca: 4:15

so I smelled asshole with that whole quick thing and I'm like all right, I need help that's like our main job right now, every role we have, I think, for us personally, our main task is to sniff out the assholes ask too many questions, as everything has progressed and after the pandemic, working for so many startups in a row doing so much, it just it got to the point where, actually, I got one of those emails the kind that are like we found your password online and, uh, we hacked your webcam and we've noticed you've been doing stuff in front of the computer and I knew it was so bad. I was like, go for it. It's just me in my underwear eating doritos and being sad.

Jamie: 5:02

That's all you're gonna do, rebecca.

Rebecca: 5:03

That's OnlyFans, so still protect yourself and crying but that also might be OnlyFans, but yeah, so eating Doritos and crying, and that's when I knew I'm like I think this is just too much. For the last four years we've been each other's support group in taking turns being in that horrible, burnt depression hole.

Jamie: 5:23

Yeah, and we've been that for a lot of our people too. It is really cool that both of us have kept touch with some of the people we worked with, especially at that place where we first met that place TM.

Rebecca: 5:38

With that job. I think this might've been like the very beginning, just like the tinges of the burnout starting is the company got sold. They, they sent out this to your point that unsolicited email of like emergency meeting all staff must attend, and one of my direct reports messaged me. It was like hey, are you going to the meeting at three o'clock? I'm like no, it's at 2 30, no, it's at three. Were they that close were?

Jamie: 6:03

they literally 30 minutes? No, it's at three. Were they that close? Were they literally 30 minutes apart?

Rebecca: 6:07

And that's when I realized, oh God, they split us into groups and basically we went into this meeting. The founder was like hey guys, great news, we sold the company, so think of this as your next adventure. And, by the way, we're not keeping any of you. If you have any questions, please ask HR. Goodbye, and I got to be in that group. It was like the rug pulled out under you. I had never had that before and it was just a distrust from Ben on of anything. And to this day, when I get a random meeting, what is this? Am I in trouble? Am I getting fired? And that's been since 2018.

Rebecca: 6:47

That just anxiety and fight or fight has been on yeah, adam 11 for so long, and that's just also contributing to not being able to handle everything anymore.

Jamie: 6:57

Yeah they did very much foster a culture that I think every workplace needs.

Rebecca: 7:08

I really do think our friend Kate in HR I think she had a huge part in that because there was pay transparency, she was super open about everything and she made sure that it was HR for the people versus HR for protecting the company.

Jamie: 7:21

That was something I don't think I've ever experienced at any other company before protecting the company that was something I don't think I've ever experienced at any other company before, Because we were happy, but we also worked, but we also all worked our asses off and because we cared about it. And the fact that your company obviously cares about you and is showing it and is not just saying it, they're actually doing the actions. It makes a world of difference and I wish companies would understand that. I know it's not all fucking kumbaya or whatever, but the policy should always be we have a no asshole policy. I think I had one company even tell me that they were careful about hiring a lot of people as referrals because they didn't want people to start their own little asshole club, Even though we don't work together.

Rebecca: 8:03

One of the things I really do appreciate is just having parallel play work sessions where we'll just both get on and do our own work. It's that comfort of having a quote unquote coworker and someone who you feel comfortable with. Just having someone there that you can talk to or just bounce an idea off of has also been a really huge contributor to coming back from just being completely dead inside to being able to get back in the groove and start working again. And it's taken me several rounds of startups to realize that they will replace you tomorrow, yeah, and you can dump everything you want into it. But the second it doesn't work for them. It's just and I know it's a therapeutic term but it's like you are pouring from an empty cup and you're not ever getting anything back. And so the disappointment and the grief that when you are gone from a company after you've just poured your whole self into it and done work you're really proud of, that's a whole. That's a whole.

Rebecca: 9:00

Other part of the burnout is that awful, like grief and anger too, that you're dealing with yeah and you just become jaded at the workplace and, like you, don't trust anyone and what it is is. It's literally just, at least in my experience, trauma bonding 100, just a thousand percent trauma bonding and so when someone understands where you're coming from and you can just blab it all out and they get it. You need that.

Jamie: 9:25

Yeah, and I feel like it's not even just startups really, I feel like it's just companies. Also, my favorite thing is so many companies now are like we've been in business for since 1994. And then they still are calling themselves a startup and they're still acting like a startup. Yeah, yeah, yeah move on.

Rebecca: 9:43

That kind of brings us to our point of why we're doing this. Because I think we have been so drained and we have trauma bonded with so many co-workers that, as we've gotten older and actually our grandfathers died within like the same 12 months uh yeah, who we were super close to and realizing that, like I, I want to contribute something to this world, I want to do something with my time, I want to do something that matters, and feeling like I'm just on a treadmill every day and not using the parts of my brain that have just trafeed, it's really, really shaken me up and it's like I want to start using my brain for good and for something that's important. And so I'll let you take over.

Jamie: 10:30

Yeah, I was going to say, like, fill your cup. That's something that's always sounded cheesy, but recently, actually in therapy, like my therapist had said that to me, you just need to fill up your cup. You really just, yeah, do things that fill up your cup, because you're just empty right now and so everything else you do, which is just continuing to empty your cup. That's why, like, you feel this way and so I really leaned into that. And, first of all, we met up this summer and we hadn't seen each other since five years I even thought it was longer. We talk every day and a lot of it is like we do get on even video calls with each other a lot Definitely more now that we're doing the Burnout Collective, but even before. So we do talk a lot. So I think we, like, did it. We've done a great job upholding our relationship.

Rebecca: 11:27

Yeah, like did a. We've done a great job upholding our, our relationship. Yeah, and also, too, it's being in therapy and not being in therapy is two entirely different things. So when you both are in therapy at the same time, I think it makes it safe for to say things that you couldn't necessarily say to other people, because it's so vulnerable or you're feeling a certain kind of way, and because it's so vulnerable or you're feeling a certain kind of way and you know that, you can just tell that person I just want to lay down and be dead and know that they know what you're talking about and that you're not crazy, and it's very validating and if you can find friends which obviously rebecca is one of those friends but if you can find friends where you can literally text them.

Jamie: 12:02

I can't be there for you right now because I'm empty and miserable and exhausted and I don't have the energy. And it's so hard to say that because I think we think that can come across as you're not important to me. Yeah, which is the complete opposite, because if I'm comfortable enough to actually say that to you, even if I am comfortable enough to say it to you, it's still hard to say it and a lot of times I don't say it because I don't know how some people will take it. But I have a good handful of friends that will let me be like that and respect it and understand too, because, like they go through it. So I think I don't know. I don't know where I was going with this.

Rebecca: 12:45

I think I just wanted to get you that's where the that's where the idea of the collective came from, because it is basically a group of people who are basically each other's support systems. At this point and we can be our most vulnerable and it's genuinely it's. I explained to jamie, it's like the artist colony for broken people. It's just people who once had that spark and creativity and are just in that depression hole but are also still managing to hold each other up and so finding our ways out of the hole together. And that's why we called it the burnout collective, because all work together but we're all experiencing that same basic feeling and it sounds fucking awesome. So genuinely it does. But that's what it is it's a colony of broken people.

Jamie: 13:33

We're a colony now.

Rebecca: 13:34

The broken people colony and not to be too kumbaya, because but it the it is just like it's not wallowing. And that's to your point about filling the cup. It's not pouring into other empty cups who can't be like reciprocate that. It's pouring into cups and getting that back and just slowly forming a human chain out of that depression hole, little by little, and supporting each other at the same time. Yeah, and that's who? Those are the people that I found in the past few years and it's there's so many other people like that out there that that's why we're doing this, because there's so much that we can be doing.

Rebecca: 14:13

But one of the things we talked about is like burnout is one of those things that is not ever really said out loud, if just to the general public, because so many people are experiencing it. But with the hustle culture and the startup culture, especially for people who work remotely, if I am not on my fucking a game at all times, I am slacking and I just have to keep my shit together and I can't be falling apart because everyone else is keeping their shit together, but actually we're all just poorly regulated people scraping through the day trying to keep our shit together and thinking that everyone else is doing a better job than we are, and so saying it out loud and acknowledging that it's there and that there's no shame in being there, it's super common. It's okay to be there and it makes sense that we're there and the fact that you can't hold your shit together makes total sense and is okay and it doesn't make you weak to say that and it's not shameful to say that out loud. It's actually a very common human thing. I think miscarriages is what I said. It's like miscarriages happen to everyone.

Rebecca: 15:13

Burnout miscarriages, but like no one talks about it and so you have one and you're just all alone. But it's so common, it's just there's so much shame around it or taboo about talking about it. Burnout is seen as like a personal failure, when actually it's just a result of the patriarchy and crushing capitalism.

Jamie: 15:36

Yeah, that sounds about right about now. I would like to do like a the more you know.

Rebecca: 15:44

Patriarchy and capitalism. Yeah, just Patriarchy. What's the answer?

Jamie: 15:49

For everything, we'll get that emote. I did want to point out that you said especially for remote people. Clarify what I think you meant, which is just that I think when you work for people remotely, some of them are very on edge about are you even working, are you doing your jobs. So I just I wanted to clarify that, like Rebecca wasn't saying, because people I think people who have to work like in office and physically go to work, I think it's worse for them too, because we can at least turn off our cameras or not be in a meeting, but when you're face to face with people, then you just have to keep it on all day and, yeah, that's even harder. I really have come to realize any employer is very willing to exploit me and it's my job to hold the boundary of refusing to be complicit in my own exploitation I think that should go on the t-shirt.

Rebecca: 16:45

Refusing to be complicit in my own exploitation. Yes, we'll get that for you. I'm just gonna end emails at work that way now instead of best.

Rebecca: 16:54

Yeah, refusing to be complicit in my own exploitation, but but that's so hard to do, like the boundaries thing setting work boundaries and learning how to set work boundaries and that you're probably not going to get fired if you do set work boundaries, yeah, and that it's okay to. That's another thing that I've had a really hard time learning. Yeah, you know, like my boss put a meeting on my calendar, I took Friday off and I was like, hey, I can, I'm off, but I can come in and just do a half day instead of and he was so nice, he was like, oh no, we can be now, but instead just be like, hey, I'm off. My default is I can come, it's fine, like I think, and it's that's bad, that's not. I wouldn't expect that of the people who I manage, so that's why am I the one doing it?

Jamie: 17:46

I think I, yeah, I think I need to practice what I I preach because I know, with my team especially, like I'll say, hey, like you guys worked so hard this week, let's take an early day, take off an hour too early, but then usually I stay Not always, but like I usually have stuff to do, so I'll stay and also I'll yell at, I'll yell at my team if they're on, honestly, even past 530.

Jamie: 18:09

I'll be like why are you still here? And it's just to get the point across that like you should end when you need to end. Don't feel like you, because we've all worked jobs where we felt like we had to be in our seat, or like online on Slack, actively working for eight hours, and I just think it's not like that. And I think I guess with remote culture, we have a little more of a benefit because we can have a little bit more of a life because, like we're at home not a life, I guess, but I mean be able to do things like I can go lie down in bed for five minutes and cuddle with my cat.

Rebecca: 18:50

Yeah, if I need a little pick-me-up, just like I can have ibs in the comfort of my own home. Yes, did I tell you? I think this is a job before we met the job I had before that I had my ibs was so bad from the amount of stress I had. I had to get a note from my gastroenterologist being like she needs to go home sometimes and basically it was a would you go back? It was a poop permission. Oh yeah, it was a poop permission slip where it was like she can go home and shit her guts out and you have to let her because permission slip.

Jamie: 19:21

Sorry that's.

Rebecca: 19:23

That was fucking humiliating, but I was just so sick all the time and so stressed out that I just needed to not be. And that's one of the reasons why I work remote is because the stress level or if I am, if it is a bad day and I am sick, I don't have to worry about my co-workers being like what is she doing? Yeah, so chronic. Yes, so chronic illness too that's. Yeah, that's the other.

Rebecca: 19:49

Working remotely with chronic illness but also having to be on exacerbates that, and that's the other thing that I've noticed has been really bad. Like you see me do this, it's because, like, all my muscles are bunched up and I'm it's just like continuous pain and I need to start learning how to Slouch less. I'm just kidding, but and I like I think that's the thesis Like part of this is learning how to do something for ourselves, walk away, reclaim some of that brain power for ourselves and things we actually love to do. Alyssa was one of the reasons why we started. By the way, alyssa, I've been like you started posting your art, like started drawing and painting and just posting your art and just watching you explore and do more and be more and more creative, and just that was incredibly motivating.

Jamie: 20:39

Yeah, I remember like it was when Alyssa first got laid off and she was just going to take some time and she started doing art. And then I started seeing the stuff she did and I was like, I'm sorry, are you an artist? Did you just start this? And you're like, oh, wow, it happened to be. And she's like, oh, I'd always like doodle, you know whatever. And I'm like, ok, so you've always been an artist and you've been hiding it.

Jamie: 21:07

And it wasn't like she was hiding it, obviously, but it was that she wasn't having time for it because she was trying to live and pay, to have a place to live and food and take care of her kids. And I was just like blown away. I was like, oh shit, and like you've just, yeah, it was a long abandoned ADHD hobby that I dusted off. I know you have those hidden talents too. Yeah, we're still trying to find some and I think, like going through this process, we have found some stuff. I love designing crazy things in Canva and just like relearning how to stream and do it a little bit differently. And even though, when did I stop streaming? Three years ago-ish, yeah, yeah, I think that just in that three years, I forgot everything about setting this all up.

Rebecca: 22:03

Learning to write copy again for yourself. That's not some marketing, but is like just talking about what you're passionate about Genuine.

Jamie: 22:13

That's why I updated my personal site after we made the Burnout Collective website, because we literally just would sit on calls and painstakingly go over like every sentence and every section and we'd say something and we'd be like we're saying that because that's what we would say if we are working for the man, but working for us. We want to be like genuine and real and like how would we say this and what is this really about? And what do we want people to know? And we want you to know that you're not alone. Everybody's burnt out. But that doesn't discount you being burnt out. It doesn't matter if somebody just got laid off and their grandpa died and their mother has cancer. You can't say like, oh, but they're doing this and they're still coming to work and giving their 100 and blah, blah, blah. We shouldn't be celebrating that.

Rebecca: 23:08

First of all, no, it's when that attendance, perfect attendance thing in elementary school. That's when it starts, as they applaud you for never missing a day, that's where it starts. That's true. That's bad.

Jamie: 23:21

That's a bad way to be it is because you feel like it was a problem. I was telling you recently how that was an issue at a place where I had to work in office, where we had such a shitty time off policy, and I think this is just in content. Maybe it's a lot of other places too, but, like, definitely in content, it's so hard to oh, teaching too. I'm thinking, oh, erica, that is definitely more difficult, but, just like I was going to say, in content, it's so hard to take a day off or to take a vacation, because this is shit. That's like going out every day and every day there's more and you have to like keep on top of it.

Jamie: 24:02

So even if I am taking off like I have unlimited time off now but even if I am going to take a week off to go see Rebecca, I have to work my butt off and work 10 to 12 hour days the week before to make sure that I'm getting everything done. And I'm like getting shit organized for my direct reports, because that's really all I care about. Is that like they're that and they don't feel lost or they don't know who to go to if they have an issue, and then, when you come back, the huge pile, even though you did all this work before, is there, and I do. It's much worse for teachers. I literally god bless teachers that is. I really feel like that's the hardest job in the world.

Rebecca: 24:48

Yeah, now I feel guilty for bitching about anything, because also I'm not a teacher.

Jamie: 24:52

Yeah.

Jamie: 24:53

I don't have to catch anyone's vomit in my hands my whole apartment just is in utter disarray all the time and I feel like I can't catch up. Just is in like utter disarray all the time and I feel like I can't catch up. I've been telling my therapist and Rebecca and probably a few other friends for like almost the last year that I just need to take two months off work, which is not really possible. But I want to take two months off work and then catch up on all my stuff. That's not work Because at the end of the day, I can still do it, but I'm so tired and my brain is so spent that I just want to stop.

Rebecca: 25:32

Here's the thing I just thought of If you were pregnant, you absolutely could take yes, that's the only reason is if you're pregnant. If you're not, then you don't. But you don't get that. You don't get that Even it's unpaid three months, you just don't get that time to recover, recovering physically from motherhood, or this is nothing new. But mental health is not seen as important as physical health, and so why would you get time to?

Jamie: 26:01

recover. I think I've had major depression house since. Honestly, I was telling rebecca this too lately. When I was in my room getting dressed, I threw something on my dresser or threw something on the pile on my dresser that my dresser is underneath and laying on top of my dresser so dusty. But there is the bulletin for my grandfather's funeral and a dried flower that I brought home from his funeral and it's like so emotional and so personal.

Jamie: 26:37

It's not like I have depression and and I'm just messy. I look at that and I can see I came home from that and I put that on my dresser to do something with and then I just went, jumped right back into work and I think I had a weekend off, I think I had the Friday off and jumped back into work and then was never able to do anything with it. And then I see that and it's first of all a reminder that like your grandpa died and second, it's just like I don't know. I feel like it's such a symbol of the emotional toll yeah, you just became your own metaphor.

Rebecca: 27:20

Like you're, it's a physical pile on, that's mentally. You're just mentally piling on things and you're not getting a chance to sort through it and dig down. It just starts, yeah, here, and just add to it yeah, and I know I was like grieving.

Jamie: 27:37

I think I was grieving pretty hard, but I still thought that I was like moving through it. Yeah, yeah, sometimes the heaviness slash. Depression is a lot of emotions that get backed up because we don't have time to slow down and actually process and feel. Yeah, thanks, eliza. I think that's what I was trying to say, too is I thought I was handling it. I mean, it's still a shitty grieving. It was shitty that my grandfather died, but in my mind I was like this is grieving and I'm grieving and I'm like going through the motions and it's not going to go away, but it's just going to get a lot better. And I think maybe I wasn't and it was coming out as I don't have the energy to do these other things.

Rebecca: 28:21

I'm going to science here for a minute and probably totally wrong, but if I remember correctly, dopamine is the, the chemical which actually gives your body the your muscles can work. But if you don't have enough dopamine it's so difficult to actually physically move your body. Oh, yeah, yeah. And so when you have a lack of that depression with burnout, you you physically can't, you just physically cannot bring it. You're fucked. But you're like I must because I'm lady, it's no, you're not lazy.

Rebecca: 28:48

Your body literally because I'm a lady, I thought I think I said lady too lazy, but also you're not lazy. Your brain doesn't literally does not have the chemical that you need to do the thing and but you internalize it and it's just again to your metaphor, just a piling on of every bullshit thing that's happened and not getting a chance to sort through it.

Jamie: 29:12

Yeah, oh, man See, yeah, and it's everything Like this kind of started because we were burnt out on work but also a lot of just like personal stuff. I would say mostly work and mental health was our main burnout, but then there was also so much.

Rebecca: 29:29

Late diagnosis ADHD. When were you diagnosed 21,? 2022. Oh, I thought you were so three years ago, 2021. Wow. So that was because we were trying to figure out what was going on with my kid and I was just looking at like, oh, there are so many things, Okay, this is me. So I went to a psychiatrist and I was like I think I'm not just depressed, I think it's actually this and I really, and just a, having that confirmed that, yes, it is. But be like knowing that, okay, my brain is not totally broken, it's just a it's depressed, but also I'm just wired differently, that was hugely helpful and just started to climb out of the hole and knowing that this is actually something I physically can't control I think I was diagnosed in 22.

Jamie: 30:17

I thought you had been diagnosed for like three or five years already, for some reason. No, but autism was even more recent than that.

Rebecca: 30:25

Yeah, well, to the burnout thing when you are high masking. With the pandemic I have lost all ability to do that and so my defenses are down, and everything that I built into place to work every day just basically went to shit with the pandemic, and so those safety rails are no longer in place and I've just lost all ability to get through the day masked, unskated. Yes, I'm exhausted now. I'm just constantly exhausted because I just lost that skill set. Also fun fact perimenopause, that's when things start to get worse, and 100% that has started to happen.

Jamie: 31:06

That's like another thing. I think that honestly, I never hear women talk about menopause like at all. All I know well, let's say all I knew about menopause until I actually pursued some information was what they show on like TV and movies oh, bad, hot flashes and like you're just all the time. And that's not it, and I think, like the majority, of it isn't even that.

Rebecca: 31:31

Let alone perimenopause. The perimenopause is A I didn't know that and B the generations before us just had hysterectomies, like before they went into menopause. So there's no like how old were you when menopause started and so not knowing that and then, on top of everything else, feeling crazy because you can't remember anything. You feel like you're going to murder everyone and you don't know what it is. That's the other thing that has just added to this burnout layer of I can't do this anymore and my brain feels like it's going rotten.

Jamie: 32:06

Yeah, and that was that kind of just circles back to like the fill your cup up thing. Rebecca and I had been talking about a business idea of ours for a very long time and we never did anything about it. We would just always talk about it and we'd be like, oh, that would be good for this, yeah, let's do this. And it was completely different from the burnout collective. I also want to say not completely different, but I think the only thing, the only reason it's not completely different, is because of us, because it's like our personality and our I don't know our championing of people who are burnt out, a community of people who, like we, want everybody to feel safe and feel like it's a safe place to say things like I don't know how to tell my boss no and to discuss that with each other we just unionized mental health.

Jamie: 32:54

I'm hearing you say yeah I think basically we did, but this came out of nowhere. We actually this is when I went to visit you. I got to go on family vacation with Rebecca and her family, which was I don't think I've been on a family vacation with a friend since I was like 12 or 13. So we just started talking about our business and we absolved that when we got back we would just take, even if it was a small step, we would take a small step to just do it, just do the thing, whatever that was. And the small step was we started meeting right when we got back. We started meeting every Saturday in the afternoon and we would just get on for two hours, sometimes four hours, and talk about ideas, brainstorm and design things.

Jamie: 33:45

And we did that very little for our original idea until, as we were talking, we realized maybe we just need a place for people like us, which is everybody, I really think, people who are burnt like the burnouts, the people who are burnt out, and that burnouts the people who are burnt out and that's it. And here we are today, and so it wasn't even the original idea that we had meant to go forward with, and then, when we decided on this, we didn't even decide on a podcast yet. That happened later too, and then we were like I think it makes more sense for us to focus on the podcast first and then just work on the other stuff, as we're doing that. So that's what we're doing.

Rebecca: 34:29

And I think we're going to be basically talking through burnout contributions, but also as we go through this. I mean, we're both currently in therapy. We both are medicated. It's sometimes talking about what's inspiring us, what we're doing to reclaim our brain's time and our brain's efforts, and about what's sometimes what's inspiring us, what we're doing to reclaim our brain's time and our brain's efforts and our brain's energy, even if it's just something small like I. I hung up art today or I I ordered some new embroidery stuff for a project.

Rebecca: 35:01

Just little stuff I bought some fruit from the grocery store just like little things that are starting to spark that creativity again. Because again, we know so many people who are in these spaces where that spark of creativity that they don't have or that they have is not allowed to come out, and so it atrophies after a while. I haven't written for myself in literally years.

Jamie: 35:24

It's like what Adrienne was saying Same, I think that's to me. It's like what adrian was saying same, I think that's that's to me. It's like the editor problem. I feel like all editors are always like I don't get to write anymore. I do think that some are like oh, thank god, I'm glad I'm not a full-time writer, because that is not what I want to do you don't get to tell people they're wrong.

Rebecca: 35:41

That is my favorite part yeah, that's true.

Jamie: 35:44

Yeah, that's why we're editors. You get to tell them they're wrong and then correct them and tell them you're right, which is yeah, we're not assholes, we're good people, we're just good editors. I'm the type of person who, like I do, look for opportunities where I would like to write something for work, but I work in finance, so that's very hard to want to write something for work. Some of the time, something would come up and I'd be like, oh, I could do that. I'll do that one because I feel like writing something that'll be fun, and I always fall into issues with it because it's a completely different skill not completely different from editing, but it's like a different headspace, it's a different.

Jamie: 36:23

It feels like such a different part of my brain writing an article versus like somebody writing it and you being like okay, here's the big picture, now let's make it all work perfectly together. So I would get there and it was just like I would just be frozen or I'd write something, and I'll be like, oh, that sounds so dumb, do you not know how to write anything? Yeah, yes. Thinking I'll be like oh, that sounds so dumb, do you not know how to write anything? Yeah, yes. And then also, I'm always in so many meetings that, like I was struggling to have time to write this thing, that I told everybody I was gonna write. And then it gets to the point where I'm kicking myself because I should have assigned this to somebody else, like I should have delegated, but I took this on and I can do everything.

Rebecca: 37:05

I can do it all.

Jamie: 37:08

Yeah.

Rebecca: 37:08

Yeah, Delegating is really hard too because again, it's that previous mindset of I got to do everything, I got to do it all, and if I don't, I have failed but actually should be delegating.

Jamie: 37:18

Yeah, I'm really working on that. That's always something many managers told me to work on, so I still have not perfected it. It's also because in my mind I see how it's hard, for example, my team's working especially. I see every day how hard they're working, I see what they do and I see that they're like really putting in the work and the effort and doing a great job. So then I do sometimes feel guilty if I'm piling more on them. But yeah, I just feel that so much.

Rebecca: 37:51

And the other thing I do want to mention is that, like with this community that we're forming, we have we've created a discord and we do want to start bringing people together, and not just us but like everyone else, having conversations and everyone else, like helping to inspire each other, and again get that spark back and that love for doing something that you want to do. Yeah, that's not making someone else money, but that it's pouring back into you. And again, I keep saying reclaiming, but it's reclaiming your brain's energy for yourself and getting yourself that dopamine hit.

Jamie: 38:23

Yeah, it's not just right no, no, no, go ahead, please continue.

Rebecca: 38:26

No, I mean, it's not just going to be us talking. We've been looking at the comments. There's a conversation. We want to know what you've been up to. One of the things, I think we're going to have guests and I do think we're going to start trying to feature projects from people that we know and to help get their work out there, and it's just encouraging people to make things or do things that simply just bring them joy and replenish that energy that they keep giving.

Jamie: 38:53

I got to the point, too, where now it's like a joke with Rebecca. We'll like have sessions where we're working on stuff and we don't work on stuff just on Saturdays anymore. We'll like end one of those midweek sessions and Rebecca will be like, okay, so we'll work on this tomorrow, we'll meet tomorrow. I was like yep, and then she'll say, but at two in the morning, when you can't sleep, you're probably going to be a little bit working on it, right, and I'm like maybe. But like it came to the point where I think Rebecca checked in with me and was like I don't want you to get burnt out working on the burnout collective and I you to get burnt out working on the burnout collective.

Jamie: 39:30

And I was like no, I feel like a new person because it has really energized me, and especially as two people with adhd, we know and alissa was talking about this that it's just so easy, oh yeah it's so easy to just like completely rabbit hole and be like you know what, yeah, I'm done, I'm done and just drop it.

Rebecca: 39:44

I have a whole closet full of same same yeah, you're not like, because with all the stuff, you just are like I'll get it and then drop it, but this it's, oh, I'm getting something from it. I'm not like going an information rabbit hole. I just spent two hundred dollars on watercolors and then just lose that dopamine hit like this uh, give them to alissa. This is just that constant dopamine refresh and it kept going and it kept like making more and it's just so different from all the other stuff I've tried and dropped.

Jamie: 40:12

So the fact that we stuck with it- yeah, and we just haven't like, is that embroidery back there, by the way?

Rebecca: 40:18

It is.

Jamie: 40:19

I don't think everyone else can see it. Okay, what is that little stand?

Rebecca: 40:24

It is a stand for my old ass where I don't have to like crouch down my neck, I can just have it like in my lap and so oh, we're really old ladies.

Jamie: 40:34

We're truly, we are so old, but it's in hot pink so nobody else can see it, sorry, oh, ok, so I'll stop talking about the thing that nobody else can see the riveting conversation. Yeah, but yeah, all, stop talking about I think that nobody else is riveting conversation. Yeah, but yeah, I was just so energized by it and it made me feel so good. I haven't used this part of my brain in so long so remember how you said there would be a feeling are you having a feeling I think I'm having a feeling.

Jamie: 40:58

Should we talk about the feeling we're talking about? Yes, yeah so yesterday, when we were just tweaking stuff for the stream and talking, rebecca brought up a good point and she said but how will we know when it's time to end the podcast? And I was like that is a good question. And I said to her I think it's just going to be a feeling, I think we're just going to know.

Rebecca: 41:28

So I think that's going to be it for us for today. I really appreciate everyone who has come and been part of the conversation. For the next week, I really hope that you guys take a look at our Discord, start some conversations and we look forward to hearing next week what you're working on and what you did that kind of was for your own creativity.

Jamie: 41:50

Thanks for being here guys, we will see you next week. We'll see you next week. The Burnout Collective is hosted by me, jamie Young and me.

Rebecca: 41:59

Rebecca McCracken. You can find all our episodes plus show notes at burnoutcollectivecom.

Jamie: 42:05

Follow the Discord link on our website to join the burnout community. You can also find us on TikTok and Instagram.

Rebecca: 42:11

If you're interested in being a guest on a future episode or have questions or feedback, you can email us at podcast at burnoutcollectivecom.